The difference between fair and just

[clutchdust]

I know life's not fair, my dad taught me that when I was knee high. I never expect life to be fair. What I do expect in our society is there to be an element of justice.
Not to get too deep into my personal situation since I've posted it before, but for the last year I've been unemployed and going through chemo and radiation. To say that times have been tight can't even begin to be an understatement.
Now here's where the justice part comes in. I can't reveal too much without putting our position in jeopardy so this may seem a little vague but it should get the point across. I know some people that live in a very nice 3200sq/ft house and live a pretty nice lifestyle. Run their AC at 72* in the middle of Las Vegas summers, leave windows and doors open, eat like kings and generally just piss away money. You may say, "so what, if they earned their money they can do what they want with it. Sucks to be you". I would completely agree with that, if that were the case. But the reality is these people don't have real jobs. They're getting by, or maybe "getting over" is more appropriate, living off the supplemental income of a relative. Like I said, I can't divulge too much on a public forum, but these people don't have a real job. They have a relative that gets tax payer assistance, that's you and me, and they live the life of Riley. One person has a consulting company he "runs" but I've never actually seen him out work. When he does, he pockets that money as "walking around" money.
This is precisely what's wrong with this country. I want some fkn justice.

[Montehall]

The IRS is always interested in stories of this nature.

[G8rDMD]

Originally Posted by clutchdust

I know life's not fair, my dad taught me that when I was knee high. I never expect life to be fair. What I do expect in our society is there to be an element of justice.
Not to get too deep into my personal situation since I've posted it before, but for the last year I've been unemployed and going through chemo and radiation. To say that times have been tight can't even begin to be an understatement.
Now here's where the justice part comes in. I can't reveal too much without putting our position in jeopardy so this may seem a little vague but it should get the point across. I know some people that live in a very nice 3200sq/ft house and live a pretty nice lifestyle. Run their AC at 72* in the middle of Las Vegas summers, leave windows and doors open, eat like kings and generally just piss away money. You may say, "so what, if they earned their money they can do what they want with it. Sucks to be you". I would completely agree with that, if that were the case. But the reality is these people don't have real jobs. They're getting by, or maybe "getting over" is more appropriate, living off the supplemental income of a relative. Like I said, I can't divulge too much on a public forum, but these people don't have a real job. They have a relative that gets tax payer assistance, that's you and me, and they live the life of Riley. One person has a consulting company he "runs" but I've never actually seen him out work. When he does, he pockets that money as "walking around" money.
This is precisely what's wrong with this country. I want some fkn justice.

I hear you and agree with you. The entitlement mentality of today's society is what has screwed up our country. Starting with Clinton saying that everybody has the RIGHT to home-ownership. Sure, everyone has that right as an American citizen, but not everyone has the means to do it. But somewhere along the way, the "right" to do or have something became "I MUST" do or have something. Just because your neighbor has a Benz or a Rolex does not mean you must too just to keep up. Everyone has the right to pursue life, liberty and happiness (everyone finds happiness in something different). But that's just it--it's the right to pursue it, not the guarantee that it'll come to you or be handed to you. "Obama is going to pay my mortgage, and my car payment and my gas and groceries." It's high time we take this country back from the entitlement-mentality idiots and put it back in the hands of the people who work hard to better society and support it

[HOWSER]

Sorry to hear about your situation clutch. I wish you luck in employment and treatments.

[G8rDMD]

Originally Posted by TxAg

IMHO that will take a revolution in a massive scale. And I'm not talking a peaceful one either.

You start taking away jojo and bubba's "freebies" and they're coming after those who did it.

I agree--and I think it needs to happen or we will be gone like the Roman Empire

And to be fair, I'm not talking about eliminating all welfare programs. I do believe in them to a degree. During the height of the recession, my dad who had been in engineering and construction all his life, was suddenly, for the first time, jobless at 60. He collected unemployment. It greatly helped my parents get through a tough time when they needed it the most. There are people and times where the situation warrants help. I'm talking about eliminating the freebies for the people who exist solely to sponge off of society without contributing a damn thing except greenhouse gasses

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by G8rDMD

I agree--and I think it needs to happen or we will be gone like the Roman Empire

And to be fair, I'm not talking about eliminating all welfare programs. I do believe in them to a degree. During the height of the recession, my dad who had been in engineering and construction all his life, was suddenly, for the first time, jobless at 60. He collected unemployment. It greatly helped my parents get through a tough time when they needed it the most. There are people and times where the situation warrants help. I'm talking about eliminating the freebies for the people who exist solely to sponge off of society without contributing a damn thing except greenhouse gasses

I think we had this conversation here very recently, but I don't view unemployment as a welfare or "entitlement". Unemployment compensation is taken out of our paychecks, or at least our contribution to it is. Neither is Social Security or Medicare, since we all contribute to it. But that's where my view on entitlements ends; everything else--Medicaid, food stamps, Aid to Families with Dependent Children, WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) Program, free child care, SSI, welfare payments--is an entitlement that can be, and obviously is, abused.

Entitlements are hard to end, like taxes--once you have it, you wonder how you ever lived without it. And politicians, particularly Democrats, use entitlements to essentially buy votes. Like TxAg said, Government entitlements are the worst way to handle the "poor" (real or made-up). The old potato chip analogy says that we send our 'potatoes' to Washington to make potato chips; the Federal government processes the potatoes, which costs money and somepotatoes are wasted. Then the chips are sent to the States, which charges again and wastes some more.

I'd support a law that ended all entitlements and that required us to contribute a (very small) portion of our income to charities that feed the poor. However, they (the needy) would have to show up to eat--no payment of money to them to buy food. No housing assistance or free medical care or child care or anything else. If you're too sick to work, then you might die. If you're too lazy to work, then die. I'm not a merciless person, but we simply can't afford to do what we're doing.

[TabuIsMe]

Originally Posted by HOWSER

Sorry to hear about your situation clutch. I wish you luck in employment and treatments.

so do i

[DAB]

thou shalt not covet. (Ex. 20:17)

reminds me of 2 stories:

when i was a kid, and mom was passing out cookies, and she'd offer all the kids one. yum. and i'd ask for a 2nd. mom reaches for a second cookie and sister would complain. when asked if sister wanted a 2nd cookie, she'd say no, but she didn't want me to have a 2nd cookie.

somewhere in the new testament (Matt. 20:1-16) is the story of the man hiring laborers for the day, and the ones who worked all day get paid the full amount they agreed to at the start of the day, and those who started later in the day, and weren't promised a set amount when they hired on, end up getting the same pay as those who worked all day. and those who worked all day complain. about what? they got what they agreed to. what the landowner pays others is not their concern.

look after your own account, and don't worry about what others are getting or doing.