So, I got the free Full Self driving trial this morning

[theandies]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

[VBOT]Ignore lists are for pussies.[/VBOT]

Announcing the fact that someone is on your ignore list is the online equivalent of this:

How about this:
**** OFF
That satisfy you? I put people on ignore when the constantly lie, change their story etc. This guy is famous for doing that.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Source: Trust me bro

Alt Source: Elon said so.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by theandies

How about this:
**** OFF
That satisfy you? I put people on ignore when the constantly lie, change their story etc. This guy is famous for doing that.

OK, but why announce it? Do you think you're gonna hurt his widdle feelings by letting him know you're ignoring him?

Guess I'll be next on your ignore announcement list.

[LATB]

If you tell someone that you are ignoring him then you really are not ignoring him. Right?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Got a link to studies that support that conclusion?

Personal experience. I owned a vehicle with LKA and it would not handle sharp curves well.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Got a link to studies that support that conclusion?

Originally Posted by jw38

Blah, blah, blah.



Oh so true.

Here's what Texas has done about distracted driving. And if GSC3 doesn't think he was distracted, he's 100% incorrect.

https://data.texas.gov/stories/s/Tex...ty-/ndn8-c2cs/

Other common distractions include talking on the phone, grooming, reading, eating, adjusting the radio, or navigation while driving — anything that takes the driver’s attention away from driving.



How about you post up the number of Autopilot vehicles vs the number of vehicles that actually require the driver to drive them? It's an infinitesimal number, so your comparison isn't a valid one. Distracted driving most certainly is a problem. Hence why I believe that self-driving vehicles are dangerous. Their "drivers"...you included...are lulled into a false sense of security and they...including you...do really stupid, distracted shit like reading and posting on car forums when you're supposed to be PAYING ****ING ATTENTION TO THE ROAD

I posted the stats of Tesla accidents non autopilot vs. non autopilot and the difference was huge. Autopilot is safer on the freeway than human drivers.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Autopilot is safer on the freeway than human drivers.

And yet nowhere in your "stats" does it mention that whole human intervention thing.

Not wrecking "while using autopilot" doesn't mean shit without context... you know... all of that raw data that Elon keeps secret while publishing his sales pitch. The very least of which would be a count of times that human intervention was required to prevent an accident.

Unless of course your argument is that no human has ever had to intervene.

You have admitted yourself that you only use it in the most basic situations, in the middle lane on highways. You don't think it may be of some importance to note that the times it is being used are the times when people were least f**king likely to wreck anyway? You don't think that may skew the numbers just a bit that it's only being used in the easiest situations?

You do realize that the "stats" posted on Tesla's page that you linked are a generic crashes per million miles. For the US average, that includes city driving and many other higher frequency activities that are N/A for the autopilot data. You're comparing apples to giraffes.

No shit that something used only in the most basic highway situations has less accidents than people driving through f**king cities and everywhere else.

Somehow your takeaway is a generic bold statement that it's "safer on the freeway than human drivers"

You are either painfully ignorant or simply dishonest. Possibly both. I can assure you that Elon is the second of those.

Are you at least intelligent enough to recognize and honest enough to admit that the simple minded argument of wrecks "while using autopilot" is a very easily skewed metric?

I'm betting the answer is no.

Come on. You can do it.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And yet nowhere in your "stats" does it mention that whole human intervention thing.

Not wrecking "while using autopilot" doesn't mean shit without context... you know... all of that raw data that Elon keeps secret while publishing his sales pitch. The very least of which would be a count of times that human intervention was required to prevent an accident.

Unless of course your argument is that no human has ever had to intervene.

You have admitted yourself that you only use it in the most basic situations, in the middle lane on highways. You don't think it may be of some importance to note that the times it is being used are the times when people were least f**king likely to wreck anyway? You don't think that may skew the numbers just a bit that it's only being used in the easiest situations?

You do realize that the "stats" posted on Tesla's page that you linked are a generic crashes per million miles. For the US average, that includes city driving and many other higher frequency activities that are N/A for the autopilot data. You're comparing apples to giraffes.

No shit that something used only in the most basic highway situations has less accidents than people driving through f**king cities and everywhere else.

Somehow your takeaway is a generic bold statement that it's "safer on the freeway than human drivers"

You are either painfully ignorant or simply dishonest. Possibly both. I can assure you that Elon is the second of those.

Are you at least intelligent enough to recognize and honest enough to admit that the simple minded argument of wrecks "while using autopilot" is a very easily skewed metric?

I'm betting the answer is no.

Come on. You can do it.

Makes no sense arguing with someone who will claim that all data that don't show the numbers they want to see are fake. You would even disagree is NHTSA posted those results if you don't like them. Autopilot is very safe if you understand what it does and use it accordingly.
FSD works even better than Autopilot on the highway as it will be able to handle left exits and merging traffic safely. Autopilot is not designed for those scenarios.

[GrandSportC3]

here is what Tesla says that Autopilot/Autosteer does:

Autosteer: Like Traffic-Aware Cruise Control, Autosteer maintains a set speed (if there is not a vehicle in front of you) or a set following distance (if there is a vehicle in front of you). In addition, Autosteer detects lane markings, road edges, and the presence of vehicles and objects to intelligently keep Model X in its driving lane (see Autosteer).

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Makes no sense arguing with someone who will claim that all data that don't show the numbers they want to see are fake. You would even disagree is NHTSA posted those results if you don't like them. Autopilot is very safe if you understand what it does and use it accordingly.
FSD works even better than Autopilot on the highway as it will be able to handle left exits and merging traffic safely. Autopilot is not designed for those scenarios.

As usual, you are making shit up. Stop lying. I didn't say in any way that it was FAKE.

I said it was incomplete at best. And it is.

You do know what the words "incomplete" and "fake" mean different things, right?

You lacking the basic critical thinking skills required to understand the reasons why that is the case doesn't mean it's not so.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Most adaptive cruise/LKA systems are not as reliable as autopilot.

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Got a link to studies that support that conclusion?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Personal experience. I owned a vehicle with LKA and it would not handle sharp curves well.

So you know what “most” systems do based on personal experience with one vehicle? You might like statistics but you obviously don’t understand statistics.

[Big bob]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

So you know what “most” systems do based on personal experience with one vehicle? You might like statistics but you obviously don’t understand statistics.

The phrase “pencil whipping” is commonly used in the safety industry to describe the practice of completing inspection forms or checklists without conducting a thorough inspection (e.g., “checking the box”). There are various reasons one might “pencil whip” an audit/inspection, including a lack of time or resources, inadequate training, or simply the presence of a non-committal attitude toward safety. Regardless, pencil whipping is a serious issue that can compromise workplace safety and increase the risk of accidents and injuries. To successfully address this issue, organizations should adopt a multi-faceted approach that covers all the potential root causes. The following are some detailed steps that an organization could take to eradicate this damaging practice.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

You might like statistics but you obviously don’t understand statistics.

His understanding of statistics is about equivalent to that of a goldfish.

[jw38]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I posted the stats of Tesla accidents non autopilot vs. non autopilot and the difference was huge. Autopilot is safer on the freeway than human drivers.

There is nowhere near enough data to support your claim, as there are very few, relatively speaking, autopilot and/or self-driving vehicles on the road today. That's like saying that Bugattis are safer than Camrys.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Personal experience. I owned a vehicle with LKA and it would not handle sharp curves well.

And your personal experience proves that your "self-driving" Tesla can't handle school zones. I'm somewhat sure that they're safe when they're actually being monitored, but they sure as **** aren't safe when you're looking at and posting on the Barn when you're supposed to be paying attention.

[GrandSportC3]

More FSD.. My commute home. No intervention needed. My video got blocked in some countries because of the songs I played during the drive.

YouTube (Short URL)

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by jw38

There is nowhere near enough data to support your claim, as there are very few, relatively speaking, autopilot and/or self-driving vehicles on the road today. That's like saying that Bugattis are safer than Camrys.



And your personal experience proves that your "self-driving" Tesla can't handle school zones. I'm somewhat sure that they're safe when they're actually being monitored, but they sure as **** aren't safe when you're looking at and posting on the Barn when you're supposed to be paying attention.

I actually said exactly that. FSD is not ready for prime time OFF THE FREEWAY. As for autopilot, I have tens of thousands of miles experience with it on the freeway and trust it with my life going on the middle lane or left·lane on routes with no left exits.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

As for autopilot, I have tens of thousands of miles experience with it on the freeway and trust it with my life going on the middle lane or left·lane on routes with no left exits.

So, on a two lane highway you never get out of the left lane?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

....and trust it with my life going on the middle lane or left·lane on routes with no left exits.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Autopilot is safer on the freeway than human drivers.

It's safer than people... but only in the middle lane on stretches of highway with no left exist, no splits, and no scenario other than driving in a straight line.

And it is exactly the same as every other lane assist/adaptive cruise.

Got it.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by jw38

There is nowhere near enough data to support your claim, as there are very few, relatively speaking, autopilot and/or self-driving vehicles on the road today. That's like saying that Bugattis are safer than Camrys.

I posted multiple flaws in this data including the fact that the Tesla data doesn't include many of the typical driving scenarios with the highest accident rates (such as city driving), it doesn't have any mention of times when human intervention was required, and others.

It's no different than saying accidents don't happen while people are using cruise control because most people hit the brakes (which turns it off) immediately before a crash.

There were tens of thousands of miles driven in go-karts in 2023 with no fatalities on the highway. Therefore go-karts are safer on the highway than Teslas.


Tesla's "data" has absolutely no context whatsoever. It's a sales pitch. Anybody who doesn't understand how easily "data" can be skewed when the goal is to return a specific result is a f**king moron.

[jw38]

Hmmm...it appears that people are wising up to Tesla's bullshit. Oh yeah...and they're not safe.

Tesla's once-stellar reputation is running out of juice
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/23/tes...os-harris-poll

"Meanwhile, federal safety regulators say Tesla's Autopilot assisted-driving technology was responsible for 467 crashes and 14 deaths over about 15 months during 2022-23.

Hey, it's 14 deaths but they all died for the cause. Thanks comrades.