So, I got the free Full Self driving trial this morning

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

When will you have time for a warm meal if you're in such a rush?

I can last 15 minutes without eating.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Ignoring the last situation I posted and asked how FSD would handle it?

The answer is that I don't know without having a scenario like that around here.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

Not the same.
One is aerodynamics and the other is acceleration.

What does acceleration have to do with it? His post was about EV's range dropping as you go faster. It really has nothing to do with acceleration. A more aerodynamic car will have a decreased drop in efficiency as you go faster. Of course, total surface area also comes into play. That's why SUV's have a worse range drop at high speeds than a sports car for example. Surface area is much smaller on a sports car.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

What does acceleration have to do with it? His post was about EV's range dropping as you go faster. It really has nothing to do with acceleration. A more aerodynamic car will have a decreased drop in efficiency as you go faster. Of course, total surface area also comes into play. That's why SUV's have a worse range drop at high speeds than a sports car for example. Surface area is much smaller on a sports car.

You compared the aerodynamics of the Tesla improvements would increase range and then you referenced the difference between the range of and ice car doing 60 vs 80 mph. That difference in speed requires acceleration.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The answer is that I don't know without having a scenario like that around here.

What do you suspect would happen based on your use of it. I'm genuinely curious.

I'm not convinced any software will ever replace human reasoning to drive a car. Why? How can FSD recognize another driver, or a pedestrian, wave them through a light or intersection? What if a sign gets knocked over? What happens when there's a power outage and lights don't work? There are myriad scenarios where a human can use reason and logic to get through something safely, where software doesn't have that capability.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

What does acceleration have to do with it? His post was about EV's range dropping as you go faster. It really has nothing to do with acceleration. A more aerodynamic car will have a decreased drop in efficiency as you go faster. Of course, total surface area also comes into play. That's why SUV's have a worse range drop at high speeds than a sports car for example. Surface area is much smaller on a sports car.

The difference is that a loss when you have a range of 600+ and it takes you 5 minutes to fill up again is a hell of a lot less of a problem than the massive losses that EVs see at highway speeds when you already have a limited range and it takes you 10x as long to charge it.

Advertised range of yours is 326. How far can you go at 80mph? What percentage do you lose?

Want to compare that to the numbers for the way less aerodynamic Escalade? The Escalade is rated at 23mpg highway. In the real world, with tens of thousands of miles of data, I average slightly over 21 at 80mph. A loss of less than 9% over the advertised range.

I can still easily go over 600 on a tank. I can go almost 700 miles at 80 mph in my brick shaped truck.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

What do you suspect would happen based on your use of it. I'm genuinely curious.

I'm not convinced any software will ever replace human reasoning to drive a car. Why? How can FSD recognize another driver, or a pedestrian, wave them through a light or intersection? What if a sign gets knocked over? What happens when there's a power outage and lights don't work? There are myriad scenarios where a human can use reason and logic to get through something safely, where software doesn't have that capability.

I don't want to speculate. I prefer facts over speculation. I still have FSD for another 3 to 4 weeks.. I'll try many different scenarios that I can find around here.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

The difference is that a loss of ~20% when you have a range of 600+ and it takes you 5 minutes to fill up again is a hell of a lot less of a problem than the massive losses that EVs see at highway speeds when you already have a limited range and it takes you 10x as long to charge it.

Advertised range of yours is 326. How far can you go at 80mph? Want to compare that to the numbers for the way less aerodynamic Escalade?

Before you answer, at 80mph, I can still easily go over 600 on a tank.

I can do 240 - 250 miles at 80 mph on a 98% charge with 4 people and luggage in the car. That's enough for my needs. If you NEED more range, get a gas car. It's that simple. It all depends on your travel style. We are extremely close to 10 minute recharge time with the Polestar 5 being likely the first car with that kind of recharge time to see production (with the Storedot battery). Others aren't far behind. Battery technology is improving rapidly and the technology exists to go 600 miles and recharge for 10 mins. It's not science fiction. It's a reality. The only reason why you can't buy a car with those batteries is lack of current production capacity for those batteries.
The latest batttery tech weighs 1/2 of what current batteries weight. This means that we could double the current range of EV's. Again, this is not science fiction. All it takes is time to scale production of those batteries. It will take a few years.

BTW, advertised range of mine when I got it was 333 miles. For 2024 model year, it dropped to 326.

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

I can last 15 minutes without eating.

That's taking a risk. You should stop at the halfway point (7.5 minutes) for a rest and a warm meal in order to remain sharp behind the wheel.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I can do 240 - 250 miles at 80 mph on a 98% charge with 4 people and luggage in the car.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

BTW, advertised range of mine when I got it was 333 miles. For 2024 model year, it dropped to 326.

Great. So a 25%-30% loss vs the < 10% of the brick shaped Escalade (with 4 people, luggage, and an entire go-kart operation in the back)

Thank you for verifying exactly what I said to begin with ... that you said was "partially true".

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

That's enough for my needs. If you NEED more range, get a gas car. It's that simple. It all depends on your travel style. We are extremely close to 10 minute recharge time with the Polestar 5 being likely the first car with that kind of recharge time to see production (with the Storedot battery). Others aren't far behind. Battery technology is improving rapidly and the technology exists to go 600 miles and recharge for 10 mins. It's not science fiction. It's a reality. The only reason why you can't buy a car with those batteries is lack of current production capacity for those batteries.
The latest batttery tech weighs 1/2 of what current batteries weight. This means that we could double the current range of EV's. Again, this is not science fiction. All it takes is time to scale production of those batteries. It will take a few years.

This part, where you try to justify, twist, and spin it into some hypothetical future argument is absolutely irrelevant.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Great. So a 25%-30% loss vs the < 10% of the brick shaped Escalade (with 4 people, luggage, and an entire go-kart operation in the back)

Thank you for verifying exactly what I said to begin with ... that you said was "partially true".



This part, where you try to justify, twist, and spin it into some hypothetical future argument is absolutely irrelevant.

Gas cars are extremely inefficient. Sure, their inefficiency is not as effected by speed than efficient EVs. EVs has such amazing efficiency because of regeneration which won't help at constant highway speeds. If you look into acutal energy used to move similar sized EVs vs. gas, EVs are much more energy efficient at any speed.
Again, if the range isn't sufficient for your traveling style, nobody forces you to get an EV.

[GrandSportC3]

My morning commute on FSD this morning..
At just after 16 minutes into the drive, I went on Vettebarn

YouTube (Short URL)

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Gas cars are extremely inefficient. Sure, their inefficiency is not as effected by speed than efficient EVs. EVs has such amazing efficiency because of regeneration which won't help at constant highway speeds. If you look into acutal energy used to move similar sized EVs vs. gas, EVs are much more energy efficient at any speed.
Again, if the range isn't sufficient for your traveling style, nobody forces you to get an EV.

Keep twisting.

Your EV range goes to shit on the highway. That's a simple fact. ICE cars don't lose nearly as much. Keep telling yourself how efficient you are if it makes you feel better.

Any of the 3 vehicles in my garage can go 500+ on a single tank. Good job using all of that efficiency to get to almost half of that.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

At this point, I drove over 600 miles already on FSD (had family visiting and I had to pick them up and drop them off at the airport).

The closest airport is 300 miles away?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Keep twisting.

Your EV range goes to shit on the highway. That's a simple fact. ICE cars don't lose nearly as much. Keep telling yourself how efficient you are if it makes you feel better.

Any of the 3 vehicles in my garage can go 500+ on a single tank. Good job using all of that efficiency to get to almost half of that.

Why would I give a flying fk if a car can go 500 miles on a tank if my bladder can't go that long and my stomach can't go without food for a long time either.
The longest trip leg I ever did was like 360 miles with a gas car and even with gas cars, my normal distance driven on a trip leg was about 250 - 270 miles, so, the 240 miles I can go at highway speeds are not far from what I used to do anyways.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

The closest airport is 300 miles away?

I didn't do the 600 miles in one trip.. Actually, family members arrived at Sanford Airport which is 81 miles from my home. There are direct flights from McAllen to Sanford while you have to change planes in Houston if you fly into Orlando. Orlando Airport is closer but Sanford is more convent coming from McAllen. We picked up my wife's sister and mom and dropped them off when they left. So, 162 miles x 2, 324 miles total. We also went to the beach while they were here which added another 110 miles. Of course, we also went out to different places, adding up to over 600 miles.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

My morning commute on FSD this morning..
At just after 16 minutes into the drive, I went on Vettebarn

https://youtu.be/5Xc8mOg75Hg?si=Nd22EDOuEOf9TEoJ

Just what we need, people in self driving cars while surfing the internet.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Why would I give a flying fk if a car can go 500 miles on a tank if my bladder can't go that long and my stomach can't go without food for a long time either.
The longest trip leg I ever did was like 360 miles with a gas car and even with gas cars, my normal distance driven on a trip leg was about 250 - 270 miles, so, the 240 miles I can go at highway speeds are not far from what I used to do anyways.

I could never travel that way.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by LATB

Just what we need, people in self driving cars while surfing the internet.

Better than sleeping or having sex.

[dvarapala]

So here's one of the scenarios I was curious about (skip ahead to 9:48):

YouTube

The white Camry in the passing lane is what I call a "duckling" - a driver who ostensibly wants to go faster than you, but once he catches up to you he slows down and matches your speed. IOW he seems to "imprint" on you like a baby duckling does to its mother.

When a duckling imprints on me I will immediately adjust my speed as needed to shake him off, but FSD does nothing and allowed the moron to just sit there keeping station off the port bow. Not only does this block the passing lane, but if the Camry should blow a tire of have to swerve to avoid an obstacle your Tesla is toast.