The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread - Page 101

Aerovette · 03-25-2024, 9:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Run a search on any vehicle you choose on Autotrader. Sort by price, low to high. Go to the dealer and try to buy the car for the price that you find. Good Luck.

I've done exactly this. When I bought a car for my step-daughter.

When my mother bought her car she got it for LESS than the Autotrader price.

Onebadcad · 03-25-2024, 10:22am

I had an epithany, I am now an ev nuthugger,
But now telsas in my future, this is the one I will buying after I complete my 300-car collection.

I could never settle for one of those SLOW telsa flannels, this Sapphire thingy is MUCH faster, maybe I will buy my youngest daughter a flannel, she needs to go slow.

THE LUCID SAPPHIRE
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...apphire-drive/

Quote:

Incredibly, the tires vaguely spin for a few dozen yards, then fully hook up as the car lunges up the track. The sensation of uninterrupted acceleration is ungodly, and when I rip past the finish and climb onto the binders, the in-car GPS readout displays some staggering numbers: 2.2 seconds to 60 mph and a quarter-mile of 9.28 seconds at 153 mph. It's hard to be disappointed by such epic performance, especially since the shockingly quick Ferrari 296GTB plug-in hybrid we recently tested needed 2.4 seconds to reach 60 mph and finished the quarter in 9.7 seconds at 150 mph. But then I realized the wheelspin signaled a mistake. I had been advised to reengage traction control after the water-box burnouts, but I hadn't.

Back in line for a second run, I repeat the burnout procedure but make sure to reengage traction control before creeping up to the tree. Bam! No hint of wheelspin this time, and the feeling of being shot out of a cannon is even more acute. The timer backs this up with even more outrageous numbers: 60 mph in 1.9 seconds, then 9.05 seconds and 154 mph at the stripe. Later on, as conditions improve, someone else manages 8.95 seconds.

RedLS1GTO · 03-25-2024, 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

the way that cars are advertised should be standardized to avoid consumers being misled.

I can see it now… we can call it the IPA. Idiot Protection Agency.

Imagine being so helpless and reliant that you need the government to help you buy a car.

“Libertarian”

GrandSportC3 · 03-25-2024, 12:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LATB

Any EV car buyer who buys that car thinking that they can get a 1300 mile range deserves to be disappointed.

I remember you posting that EV buyers are mostly high earners and conservative smart thinkers. Maybe not.

There are just as many brain dead Conservatives as there are Liberals. Almost half the population is ignorant. I'm not talking about ALL EV buyers.. I'm talking about buyers of high end EV's.. Sure, most of the Leaf buyers and other entry level EV's may be Liberals but once you get into the high end of EV's (outside of California), many buyers are conservatives. On the Plaid facebook groups, most of the Plaid owners also have other fast cars like Ferraris, Lambos, McLarens etc.

GrandSportC3 · 03-25-2024, 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

So f**king what?

You want to pass laws and regulate the entire internet because people are too stupid to read. Where does your protection of idiots end? You going to regulate facebook marketplace? You going to regulate every advertisement in every industry... or is it only car buyers that you think are too stupid to read?

Elon calls his piece of shit a "truck". Imagine how many idiots are misled by that one.

On the website it shows the below. It can go 340 miles while towing 11,000lbs and still has a 2.6s 0-60. Amazing.

Funny, it never says that you can pick 1 at a time (except 340 mile range which of course isn't happening at all). Imagine that, listing a bunch of things that are impossible to happen at the same time. Hmmm. Wait a minute. What are those little (*) and (+) symbols by those numbers? MISLEADINGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Let me guess... that's different.

It nowhere says that it can do all at the same time. That's obvious even for those who didn't win in the IQ lottery.

I'm not talking about private sales on craigslist or facebook market place. I'm talking about dealerships selling new or used cars.

GrandSportC3 · 03-25-2024, 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Just admit you can't show us even one example of what you keep ranting about. You made the claim, prove it or STFU.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Now, please tell me that I can actually get that car for that price if I show up with cash at the dealership. (of course plus tax and tag and dealer fee)

GrandSportC3 · 03-25-2024, 12:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I've done exactly this. When I bought a car for my step-daughter.

When my mother bought her car she got it for LESS than the Autotrader price.

Maybe on models that are not in demand, that's possible..

I just posted up the cheapest F150 lightning in the US (nationwide search) and this one came up. I'd buy that one right now if I could walk in and buy it for that price + tax, tag and dealer fee..

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Onebadcad · 03-25-2024, 12:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Maybe on models that are not in demand, that's possible..

I just posted up the cheapest F150 lightning in the US (nationwide search) and this one came up. I'd buy that one right now if I could walk in and buy it for that price + tax, tag and dealer fee..

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Call them, see if they are playing pricing games.

I heard this weekend this weekend that new Rams are available at 15-20% off, so it appears the market is now discounting at an amount in your ad, which is 15%.

Here is a Ram dealer near me, appears 15-20% is actual:

https://www.joeyaccardicdjr.com/new-...x.htm?make=Ram

Steve_R · 03-25-2024, 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Now, please tell me that I can actually get that car for that price if I show up with cash at the dealership. (of course plus tax and tag and dealer fee)

How can I possibly know what the dealer will sell a vehicle for if you show up with cash? Fly to AZ with cash and find out.

Various sources report that dealers are having a hard time selling the Lightning due to very low demand, which would mean they'd offer large discounts to sell them. Ford recently announced they're "slashing" production of the Lightning due to weak demand. Nobody wants them.

Point out the misleading part of that ad please.

GrandSportC3 · 03-25-2024, 12:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

Call them, see if they are playing pricing games.

I heard this weekend this weekend that new Rams are available at 15-20% off, so it appears the market is now discounting at an amount in your ad, which is 15%.

Here is a Ram dealer near me, appears 15-20% is actual:

https://www.joeyaccardicdjr.com/new-...x.htm?make=Ram

I just got back from our local Ford Dealer. We checked out one of their extended range F150 Lightning.. They are dropping the pants on those cars as the higher priced ones are hard to sell.. $66900 MSRP and after tax credit and discount, I can get the car for $58k.. However, that $58k includes $2500 dealer installed options which are worth almost nothing... Still, we weren't really looking for the extended range versions. $58k is still almost $20k more than the standard range PRO version of the truck which has a MSRP of $49990 which is $42490 after tax credit, so, $16k less.
Sales person flat out lied to me (or didn't know.. who knows) and said that the PRO version of the truck does not get the tax credit. I know for a fact that ALL Lightning get the tax credit.. Sales person of course wants to sell the higher end version of the truck.

GrandSportC3 · 03-25-2024, 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_R

How can I possibly know what the dealer will sell a vehicle for if you show up with cash? Fly to AZ with cash and find out.

Various sources report that dealers are having a hard time selling the Lightning due to very low demand, which would mean they'd offer large discounts to sell them.

Point out the misleading part of that ad please.

That phrase:

Prices do NOT include any dealer add-ons

Most of those Stealerships add items that have virtually no value to jack up the price.

GrandSportC3 · 03-25-2024, 12:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_R

How can I possibly know what the dealer will sell a vehicle for if you show up with cash? Fly to AZ with cash and find out.

Various sources report that dealers are having a hard time selling the Lightning due to very low demand, which would mean they'd offer large discounts to sell them.

Point out the misleading part of that ad please.

Kind of pricey to fly out to Arizona just to check if it's the real price.. Their disclaimer also includes that the car may have been previously sold.. The goal of the dealer is that they get you into the dealership to play their game with you.
I understand that right now, you can get great discounts due to the high interest environment and most higher end spec cars end up sitting on the lot for a while. They are still trying to increase the price with those no value dealer installed options.

Steve_R · 03-25-2024, 12:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

That phrase:

Prices do NOT include any dealer add-ons

Most of those Stealerships add items that have virtually no value to jack up the price.

You have said, over and over and over and over that dealers advertise the lowest price possible if someone qualifies for several different discounts and almost nobody qualifies for. You have not shown one example of that, but offer as proof a dealer saying a price does not include dealer add-ons.

Onebadcad · 03-25-2024, 1:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I just got back from our local Ford Dealer. We checked out one of their extended range F150 Lightning.. They are dropping the pants on those cars as the higher priced ones are hard to sell.. $66900 MSRP and after tax credit and discount, I can get the car for $58k.. However, that $58k includes $2500 dealer installed options which are worth almost nothing... Still, we weren't really looking for the extended range versions. $58k is still almost $20k more than the standard range PRO version of the truck which has a MSRP of $49990 which is $42490 after tax credit, so, $16k less.
Sales person flat out lied to me (or didn't know.. who knows) and said that the PRO version of the truck does not get the tax credit. I know for a fact that ALL Lightning get the tax credit.. Sales person of course wants to sell the higher end version of the truck.

Obviously the salesman and / or the dealer are aholes.
When I go car shopping, if the saleshole pisses me off, I ask for the general manager, not the sales manager, always works, I get what I want at the price I want.

When I bought the fusion for my wife years ago, a friend from work dropped her at the dealership to pick it up; I had a golf game at same time.
She called me as the car was covered in dust and dirt, and she was told it was due to construction of the showroom, the salesman did not offer a solution.
I called the dealership, got the gm on the phone, told him to cancel the purchase.
In less than 30 seconds he apologized and threw in an extended warranty at no charge, AND had her car washed and detailed.

It is all in how you approach the purchase!!

LATB · 03-25-2024, 1:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I just got back from our local Ford Dealer. We checked out one of their extended range F150 Lightning.. They are dropping the pants on those cars as the higher priced ones are hard to sell.. $66900 MSRP and after tax credit and discount, I can get the car for $58k.. However, that $58k includes $2500 dealer installed options which are worth almost nothing... Still, we weren't really looking for the extended range versions. $58k is still almost $20k more than the standard range PRO version of the truck which has a MSRP of $49990 which is $42490 after tax credit, so, $16k less.
Sales person flat out lied to me (or didn't know.. who knows) and said that the PRO version of the truck does not get the tax credit. I know for a fact that ALL Lightning get the tax credit.. Sales person of course wants to sell the higher end version of the truck.

Sales person doesn’t give a crap which one you buy because he’s likely working for flats. Now he will push one that’s on the lot vs one that’s not because he doesn’t get paid until delivery.

LATB · 03-25-2024, 1:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

That phrase:

Prices do NOT include any dealer add-ons

Most of those Stealerships add items that have virtually no value to jack up the price.

And the final price is negotiable.

LATB · 03-25-2024, 1:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

There are just as many brain dead Conservatives as there are Liberals. Almost half the population is ignorant. I'm not talking about ALL EV buyers.. I'm talking about buyers of high end EV's.. Sure, most of the Leaf buyers and other entry level EV's may be Liberals but once you get into the high end of EV's (outside of California), many buyers are conservatives. On the Plaid facebook groups, most of the Plaid owners also have other fast cars like Ferraris, Lambos, McLarens etc.

It doesn’t change my point.