Newbie here; Greetings follow Corvette Lovers and Political Connoisseurs.

[ChasC5]

I was banished from the Corvette Forum PR&C a few years ago, for having the audacity of independent thought. I’m using the same handle I had on the Corvette Forum, so if you remember me, let me know. Most of the Corvette Forum members were actually really nice people and extremely helpful when it came to Corvettes or any other topics, except for when it came to The PR&C political section, it’s really a shame. The political members and moderators in the PR&C area appeared to be strictly conservative, and some were darn right offensive if you were anything else but what they expected you to be. Now I say “appeared”, because being a free thinker myself, I’m always mindful that my views are always subject to criticism and that my views and not “fact”; they are simply my views only. There’s nothing wrong with having a political view, as matter of fact, I think it’s really healthy to have your own view on politics rather than adopting someone else’s without any independent thought. In my opinion, there’s no right or wrong political view, it’s just your view on politics, like it or as long as it doesn’t infringe on anyone else rights; what’s the harm in having different viewpoints? Many of my closes friends are diehard conservatives, but are open minded enough to allow others to have their own opinions without allowing personal attacks to shutdown stimulating conversation. But don’t take my word for it; simply look at the Corvette Forum PR&C for yourself. I becomes obvious after the reading just a few posts. Some are really hilarious and some are truly engaging until someone allows the hatefulness and ignorance to show its ugly side. I have to admit; I enjoyed the healthy sparing, even though I don’t consider myself a political expert at all. I only know politics as I see it with my own eyes, how it affects me, my family and friends personally. I really didn’t get politically involved until the mid to late 90’s, so I really don’t feel the need to be politically accurate, because it’s not a profession for me, it’s only a diversion.

My way of handling radical hard-liner types, it to lesion first and critique last, because I’m a Scientist and Engineer by education. It is in my nature, to embrace radical thinking because that is the only way to really progress in this word of rapid progression, good or bad. Learning is inherently absorbed through trial and error and we owe far more to the radical thinkers than we do to complacent do-nothing people who are afraid of anything that changes the status quo. Of course we’ve all seen that not all change is good, but at least we have gained the knowledge of the consequence of change over no knowledge gains at all.

After the last election, I’ve never in my lifetime seen fear used so much to drive policy, on both sides of the political parties. The problem with fear is, when you’re afraid you don’t think clearly, and when you’re not thinking clearly you’re easily influenced. Anyway, the older I get, the less reactive I get over politics. Because for as long as I’ve been living … every four years there’s a Presidential Election, and every four years there’s a looser and a winner. So far, none of the apocalyptic predictions have come true, and Grandma is doing just fine.

Anyway … hello and have a wonderful day.:cheers:

[Z06PDQ]

welcome Chas. :cheers: you won't see any "stickies" on this forum reminding members to stop the death threats because the FBI contacted them [like CF PR&C] you also won't see any biased mods cheering on their little circle jerkers & letting them get away with murder while holding their feet firmly on the neck of anyone who disagrees with them. this place has class & assholes like we've seen at the "other" place are dispatched quickly. :lol:

[PortDawg]

We can agree to disagree here...

....so far.....

[leec4ce]

We can agree to disagree here...

....so far.....

:iagree: :iagree:

[ChasC5]

If we could only get the people we elect to say the same, instead of grandstanding politics, the public may actually get legislation. :yesnod:

[Peter Pan]

If we could only get the people we elect to say the same, instead of grandstanding politics, the public may actually get legislation. :yesnod:

We did get a bill recently HC and it sucks, the 1 trillion will cost a min of 2 trillion, no we will scrap it and go with a single payer by 2016:D

[Cobra4B]

Interesting outlook on life/change... change for the sake of it and learn from the bad and embrace the good, but never stagnate.... hmmm.

Sounds nice on paper, but I once worked for a boss that was all about doing.... FIRE!, read, aim type of person... didn't really get good outcomes or foster a healthy workplace environment.

I'm a fiscal conservative... I studied economics in college and was raised by parents who never ran CC balances and always lived below their means... thus it makes me sick to see how people are now living on debt and creating a nanny-state.

Politics is annoying... it's all about getting re-elected.... we need term limits. I really don't care if homos want to marry or any of the social crap... I don't care if my elected officials get BJ's from fat chicks... all I care about is making America successful and wish that the best people could rise to the top... but the best stay far away from politics.

Just some rambling thoughts....

-Brian

PS - I too was banned from CF after over 9 years, 25,000+ pots and attending 4 Cruise-ins... they're on a power trip and killing what used to be my favorite forum and my favorite event of the year.

[1TZSLO]

Politics is annoying... it's all about getting re-elected.... we need term limits. I really don't care if homos want to marry or any of the social crap... I don't care if my elected officials get BJ's from fat chicks... all I care about is making America successful and wish that the best people could rise to the top... but the best stay far away from politics.

Just some rambling thoughts....

-Brian

.


BRIAN FOR CONGRESS GO I JUST SIGNED THE FIRST VOTE!:iagree:

[ChasC5]

Interesting outlook on life/change... change for the sake of it and learn from the bad and embrace the good, but never stagnate.... hmmm.

Sounds nice on paper, but I once worked for a boss that was all about doing.... FIRE!, read, aim type of person... didn't really get good outcomes or foster a healthy workplace environment.

I'm a fiscal conservative... I studied economics in college and was raised by parents who never ran CC balances and always lived below their means... thus it makes me sick to see how people are now living on debt and creating a nanny-state.

Politics is annoying... it's all about getting re-elected.... we need term limits. I really don't care if homos want to marry or any of the social crap... I don't care if my elected officials get BJ's from fat chicks... all I care about is making America successful and wish that the best people could rise to the top... but the best stay far away from politics.

Just some rambling thoughts....

-Brian

PS - I too was banned from CF after over 9 years, 25,000+ pots and attending 4 Cruise-ins... they're on a power trip and killing what used to be my favorite forum and my favorite event of the year.

:cheers:There’s a lot of truth in those words brother and I respect your opinion. We really don’t differ by much.

But if there’s a political ideology or label for me, I would say I’m a realest at best, but most of all and far more accurately, I’m defiantly a progressive by nature. And there aren’t many good old days I’m longing for, so the only thing I’m conservative for is my money, except if I’m spending it on my Wife, House or cars … and not necessarily in that order. :lolsmile:

I don’t change for the sake of change, I move forward because that’s the direction I’m heading. Now those who want to go backwards or stand in place, that’s fine if that’s their choice. But by all means, move to the right or get off the road; because the rest of the world will coming through, like it or not.

Gentlemen; this is basic evolution and the difference between Dinosaurs and Crocodiles. Both Dinosaurs and Crocodiles roamed the Earth at the same time. But one adapted to change and the other is now fossil fuel. The choice is obvious, you can only slow down or delay change, not stop it. I’d rather be part of the change that affects me and have a role in that evolution. It’s better than being a bitter spectator. Whatever your choice, be involved and make your vote count. But like I said, every four years there’s a winner and a looser and the world hasn’t ended for any of the past losers. So … what exactly is the different this time? Really?

BTW … it’s post like this that sent the Corvette Forum PR&C into a frenzy. :D

[ChasC5]

We did get a bill recently HC and it sucks, the 1 trillion will cost a min of 2 trillion, no we will scrap it and go with a single payer by 2016:D

:confused5: Wow … that much already. That’s about what we spent in only one of the wars in eight years. :D

[Peter Pan]

:confused5: Wow … that much already. That’s about what we spent in only one of the wars in eight years. :D

You point is? Today South Korea is still at war with the North Korean's, oh we have an Armstice signed and the South is a booming free country, thanks to those who gave all. I first served there in 1979 some 26 years after the end of the fighting, the country was still coming out to the future, my last visit in 95-95 the South is really free and booming.

We pull out of both of the current wars and it will be like Vietnam, no it will be worse as atleast we are fighing the radicals on there home land not our turf like they hit us in 2001. Americans have the shortest memories of what happened then and this goes all the way to the POTUS.

I am not a war monger, but we need to finish and install a stable govt, oh there are still 37,000 US soliders in South Korea, 60 years and we are still there. Lets see Japan lost WW II and we are still there, same for Germany and this is more than 65 years after the war ended. We need to stay to make this work, vs cut and run. Yes it costs $$ to spread freedom and it is not a right to have HC forced upon ushttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c293/elsloan22/emotions/3b5d.jpg

[ChasC5]

I was referring to a Health Care cost question.

My point is; Money spent on American’s over ANYONE ELSE will ALWAYS be Money well spent.

You can’t exactly send sick American’s off to fight a war or take care of them when they return. BTW; they all have families and friends who need good health care.

I deserve it, you deserve it … ALL AMERICAN’S DESERVE IT! :yesnod:

[Peter Pan]

I was referring to a Health Care cost question.

My point is; Money spent on American’s over ANYONE ELSE will ALWAYS be Money well spent.

You can’t exactly send sick American’s off to fight a war or take care of them when they return. BTW; they all have families and friends who need good health care.

I deserve it, you deserve it … ALL AMERICAN’S DESERVE IT! :yesnod:

I should not have to pay for some one else to have health care, I pay for my own and that should be enough, I was not put on earth to pay for some one else's HC, Sure ALL AMERICAN'S DESERVE IT, THEY NEED TO PAY FOR IT NOT ME, I AM ONE OF THE 53% WHO PAYS TAXES AND THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO PAY FOR HC FOR THOSE WHO MAKE UP TO 88K, NOT FAIR I PAY FOR OTHERS TO GO TO THE DOCTOR FOR FREEEEEEEEEE:yesnod:

[ChasC5]

I should not have to pay for some one else to have health care, I pay for my own and that should be enough, I was not put on earth to pay for some one else's HC, Sure ALL AMERICAN'S DESERVE IT, THEY NEED TO PAY FOR IT NOT ME, I AM ONE OF THE 53% WHO PAYS TAXES AND THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO PAY FOR HC FOR THOSE WHO MAKE UP TO 88K, NOT FAIR I PAY FOR OTHERS TO GO TO THE DOCTOR FOR FREEEEEEEEEE:yesnod:

I think Sumila should serve as a good example of a society that doesn’t take care of its citizens. There’s dozens more countries as an example and you’ll find a history of Americans dying because of it.

You know … that; I got mine so you get yours mentality, isn’t exactly working in the so called perfect world. Because in reality, survivors find a way to survive and that usually means taking your stuff to survive. :yesnod:

I'd rather take a more agressive approach. But to each his own. :cheers:

Have a nice weekend :beer:

[Z06PDQ]

so what we have here, is the old Conservative argument which translates to "I am not my brother's keeper" on one hand & the Progressive argument of "he ain't heavy, he's my brother" on the other? looks like it to me. we were the only civilized industrial nation in the world that discriminated against sick people.I would say we made a helluva step forward in our society. :yesnod: are we really going to go back to denying insurance & the right to a healthy life to poor children because they are "too fat,too skinny,too tall, too short,pre existing conditions, etc." if Obama is voted out?" really? :skep: the CBO says health care will trim one trillion off our debt. this is a bipartisan commission. are you really going to tell us that the Pubs in this are somehow lying? really? :D

[Peter Pan]

so what we have here, is the old Conservative argument which translates to "I am not my brother's keeper" on one hand & the Progressive argument of "he ain't heavy, he's my brother" on the other? looks like it to me. we were the only civilized industrial nation in the world that discriminated against sick people.I would say we made a helluva step forward in our society. :yesnod: are we really going to go back to denying insurance & the right to a healthy life to poor children because they are "too fat,too skinny,too tall, too short,pre existing conditions, etc." if Obama is voted out?" really? :skep: the CBO says health care will trim one trillion off our debt. this is a bipartisan commission. are you really going to tell us that the Pubs in this are somehow lying? really? :D

It will not trim any off the debt will double the cost, link to the most current that this will cut one trillion please, I am one of the 53% paying federal taxes soon we run out of my money so people can have something for free. Yes HC should be available for all, but I should not have to pay someone else way. We already have the system for the poor, lets go ahead and give more free health care and make it cost less for those that make up to 88k, Greece is the way of America, spending my kids money, no less my grand kids so Americans can have somethine for nothing.

We need to have HC available for everyone no matter the illness or weight, however if they do not have HC now we need waiting periods, other wise I can just pay the annual penalty and then when I get cancer call up BCBS or another carrier and covers me and by the way I have cancer, damn next we will do the same with car insurance, I will buy it after the accident:yesnod:

[Z06PDQ]

so....lemme see....who do I trust,here? the Congressional Budget Office of our government or some guy named Peter Pan on the internet? :rofl:

[Peter Pan]

so....lemme see....who do I trust,here? the Congressional Budget Office of our government or some guy named Peter Pan on the internet? :rofl:

Where is the link showing this will trim one trillion from the budget and no one needs to believe me a seller of Obamacare:toetap:

[Z06PDQ]

Where is the link showing this will trim one trillion from the budget and no one needs to believe me a seller of Obamacare:toetap:

low information voter.....I'll be right back. :seeya:

[Z06PDQ]

pick one: cbo says health care bill will reduce debt 1.3 trillion - Google Search :seeya:

[Peter Pan]

pick one: cbo says health care bill will reduce debt 1.3 trillion - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cbo+says+health+care+bill+will+reduce+debt+1.3+trillion&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=) :seeya:

That was over 20 years, this linked article shows the first under scoring of the massive HC Bill.

Spring Surprise: CBO Says Health Care Reform to Cost $115 Billion More Than Originally Projected | FDL Action (http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/05/13/spring-surprise-cbo-says-health-care-reform-to-cost-115-billion-more-than-originally-projected/)

The Congressional Budget Office just revised upwards the projected cost (PDF) of the new health care law by $115 billion. The increase is due mainly to the fact that the original CBO score of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act did not factor in the cost of actually having the government implement the reform via discretionary spending, and the law provided for a significant number of grants which did not have a specific dollar value.

I suspect at least some of the decisions about how to structure the new law’s grants and discretionary spending requirements were to help keep the CBO score low. Democrats became bizarrely and dysfunctionally obsessed with the CBO score about which most Americans are completely misinformed if they know anything at all.


Looks like as usual the Federal Govt lied to the public, they never have come in under budget, why we are trillions in the tank and growing so fast we are looking to become the next Greece so I can pay for someones HC:yesnod:

[Z06PDQ]

bottom line: the bill will reduce the deficit by 1.3 trillion dollars in 20 years. :seeya:

[ChasC5]

Looks like as usual the Federal Govt lied to the public, they never have come in under budget, why we are trillions in the tank and growing so fast we are looking to become the next Greece so I can pay for someones HC:yesnod:

Extra 115 Billion?

Since we’re bringing up Federal Government lying and the cost of those lies …

Let don’t forget about the search for those WMD, and the thousands of American’s killed looking for them. :seeya:

[Peter Pan]

Extra 115 Billion?

Since we’re bringing up Federal Government lying and the cost of those lies …

Let don’t forget about the search for those WMD, and the thousands of American’s killed looking for them. :seeya:

Pull out and let them come back here again just like in 2001

[ChasC5]

Pull out and let them come back here again just like in 2001

Sorry that you have such little faith in American ingenuity, intelligence, perseverance and shear might. Expecting a Leader to solve all our problems makes as much since as expecting a CIO to always produce the next corporate invention, it just doesn’t work that way consistently. Leaders provide a means for smart individuals to produce, not the other way around. The only way someone can get from there to here to hurt you, is for someone here not to do their job as expected … period, end of story. If the only answer is to continue throwing bodies at the problem, then 8+ years of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results … is truly insanity.

Also, allowing your fear of what could happen, will only hamper your thinking and prevent rational thought of what needs to happen. That’s the biggest problem I see with a segment of America these days. People are running around allowing fear drive their decision making process, and thus irrational decisions are driving us to the brink of total insanity. Every other week there’s a different fear of something that’s driving major decisions. It takes someone calm, with the ability to lesion first, understand second and be intelligent enough to understand what they hear in order to make mindful decisions. Any idiot can rant, rave and make more noise than action and thus becoming reactive over proactive. Everyone is a critic but no one is putting their neck on this line with an answer. If someone has the answers to all the problems, by all means stop making noise and start giving answers. Otherwise, shut-up, get out of the way and let the people who can provide the answers speak.

Remember, the only thing that makes up America, is Americans, not the other way around. And there’s no substitute for intellect. So you can’t drape yourself in the American Flag one day, and condemn American’s the next, and expect someone to take you serious as patriotic; that’s silly at best and hypocritical and worse.

The answer to your original question; YES; pull out on their country and dare the hell out of them to come here. We have Trillions and Trillions a dollars invested in being able to defend ourselves from home. We’ve done it before and it worked. Whenever we simply occupied, it doesn’t work. We have only history to as our guide. What do we need, someone to rub our nose in history? Intelligent people should need that. Let the underdevelopment, unimaginative and unintelligent make the same mistakes over and over … not the United State of America.

:cheers: