The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Aerovette]

Maybe you need to keep Carvana alive. Vending machines have no fine print.

[TheHammer]

Originally Posted by LATB

Same with the KIA hamsters. And dozens/hundreds of commercials where cars and trucks doing things that they may not be capable of doing.

so they aren't real hamsters?

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by TheHammer

so they aren't real hamsters?

What the hell? This can't be true.

That's false advertising !!!

I'll bet medication commercials drive GrandSportC3 bonkers. So much fine print and the verbal warnings talking while he's trying to read.

Pro-tip: Negotiating a price with the dealership is intended to make the buyer feel like they pulled a fast one when in fact they are NEVER getting away with anything the dealer hasn't already decided they can afford to give up.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Pro-tip: Negotiating a price with the dealership is intended to make the buyer feel like they pulled a fast one when in fact they are NEVER getting away with anything the dealer hasn't already decided they can afford to give up.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Pro-tip: Negotiating a price with the dealership is intended to make the buyer feel like they pulled a fast one when in fact they are NEVER getting away with anything the dealer hasn't already decided they can afford to give up.

I’ve never felt like that. I know the dealer is a business that must make a profit to stay in business. When I negotiated the deal on our new Explorer last month I came away with a decent deal and they made some profit. I could have maybe negotiated them down a few hundred dollars more but on a $70k vehicle it wasn’t worth my time to do that.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I’ve never felt like that. I know the dealer is a business that must make a profit to stay in business. When I negotiated the deal on our new Explorer last month I came away with a decent deal and they made some profit. I could have maybe negotiated them down a few hundred dollars more but on a $70k vehicle it wasn’t worth my time to do that.

My point is, they didn't give you anything they weren't willing to give up before you ever walked in the door.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

My point is, they didn't give you anything they weren't willing to give up before you ever walked in the door.

True. They aren’t in the business of selling vehicles at a loss.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

I think you are understating on purpose the role that consumers must embrace when pursuing most purchases.
Consumers should read the fine print, and do their homework before they commit to buying anything.

A few things in society that are not everything you are told:
1) $2,000 TV, the optimal viewing of the tv is not achieved until you spend $500+ on cables AND have super high-speed internet
2) cruise ship and airline tickets, all advertised prices go up 50+% once you pay for the NEEDED add-ons
3) new home construction prices, many go up 20+% once you account for upgrades
4) swimming pools, no one gets a pool for the advertised $40K

I could list 100+, point is when you are an educated consumer you can figure it out and never get screwed.
Picking on car ads is serving your narrative, most on here can navigate through it, and will get the car they want at the price they want.

1) you are paying for a TV, not other services. It's like buying a car and expect fueling to be included
2) yes, you can fly at the advertised price. I do it all the time. Just took my daughter to NYC for $84 round trip per person and that's what we paid. When checking in, you can deny every upgrade. You are not forced to take them
3) you are presented with a choice of trims. You can choose to go with the lowest trim. Nobody forces you to upgrade.
4) I don't know about swimming pools. Never had one built or bought one.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

What in the hell are you even arguing?


I'll make this simple. If you don't read a contract, any contract, you are a f**king idiot. There's no way in hell that I would rent an apartment from you without reading it. In the case of a car, you are talking about tens of thousands of dollars. If a simple contract is too complicated for you to understand, don't go buy a car by yourself. If you are at a place where you think someone is trying to "sneak things in" (despite an itemized bill of sale), go elsewhere.

The fact that you think the solution to any of that is the government is the absolutely insane part.

How does it infringe on the free market if you standardize something like that?
The only reason to want to keep it the way it is is to mislead people.
There are a million things in our laws that are standardized even if you don't like some of it... like car's mpg or range etc. All those things have a standard on how to determine that. What's wrong with applying the same to new car pricing?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

Not only do I read contracts, I try NEVER to sign a contract.
I explain that I do not need to prove my trust to a company for which I am paying, I will pay them when I am satisfied with the job.
I do keep their contract, as it is reviewed with them before I make the final payment.

Most people don't read half the things that they sign, especially if it's longer.
Sure, if you trust the entity that you sign a contract with, there usually is no issue but if you do the same for someone who wants to screw you.. you will end up getting screwed.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

1) you are paying for a TV, not other services. It's like buying a car and expect fueling to be included
If you want fuel, add that into your negotiations. I can promise you it will not be the deal breaker. Matter of fact I believe every car/truck I have bought came with a full tank, usually without asking.

2) yes, you can fly at the advertised price. I do it all the time. Just took my daughter to NYC for $84 round trip per person and that's what we paid. When checking in, you can deny every upgrade. You are not forced to take them
And you are not forced to buy any vehicle, and can deny the dealer add-ons as part of your negotiations.

3) you are presented with a choice of trims. You can choose to go with the lowest trim. Nobody forces you to upgrade.
That's call custom home building and it will absolutely cost you more than a spec built home. Builders, especially tract home builders, will build them upgraded even though they advertise the entry level price. And unless the market is weak you will not negotiate much away.

4) I don't know about swimming pools. Never had one built or bought one.
Like custom home building, it will always cost more than the advertised price.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

How does it infringe on the free market if you standardize something like that?
The only reason to want to keep it the way it is is to mislead people.
There are a million things in our laws that are standardized even if you don't like some of it... like car's mpg or range etc. All those things have a standard on how to determine that. What's wrong with applying the same to new car pricing?

There are already truth in advertising laws on the books.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Most people don't read half the things that they sign, especially if it's longer.
Sure, if you trust the entity that you sign a contract with, there usually is no issue but if you do the same for someone who wants to screw you.. you will end up getting screwed.

If you don't read a contract for a large purchase you are an idiot. In the case of a new car you can be assured that you will not buy the car without signing their contract. And yes the contract favors the author as is always the case.

In context of the discussion the only issue is the cost. And at the point of contract price has already been determined. All that's necessary is confirm the numbers. If that is outside your abilities you probably should use public transportation.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

How does it infringe on the free market if you standardize something like that?

Where did I say anything about it "infringing on the free market"? I'll give you a hint. I didn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with the MARKET, no matter how many times you say it.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

What's wrong with applying the same to new car pricing?

Who in the hell is arguing about PRICING? You're saying that the government should regulate how search engines display results on privately held websites so it makes your search easier. That has nothing to do with PRICING. It has nothing to do with the MARKET.

After this many posts, how is it possible that you still don't even understand the argument?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by LATB

There are already truth in advertising laws on the books.

But reading those wastes "valuable time"...

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Most people don't read half the things that they sign, especially if it's longer.
Sure, if you trust the entity that you sign a contract with, there usually is no issue but if you do the same for someone who wants to screw you.. you will end up getting screwed.

Again, your entire argument is that disclosing every detail is "misleading"... because people are too lazy to read it.

Crazy thought, how about you actually take just a little bit of responsibility for your own shit.

You've now jumped from being too lazy to read Autotrader to dealers apparently sneaking things into contracts. Again, what in the shit are you even arguing?

Please detail what exactly these shady, unethical, and immoral new car franchise dealers can "sneak in" to the back end of a contract that will "screw" you. And keep in mind, your entire argument revolves around NEW cars, not "Bob's Buy Here Pay Here House of Used Shit."

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

If you want fuel, add that into your negotiations. I can promise you it will not be the deal breaker. Matter of fact I believe every car/truck I have bought came with a full tank, usually without asking.

Not talking about one tank.. getting free fuel for the life of the vehicle. It's like expecting free cable to be included with your TV. That's extremely obvious.

And you are not forced to buy any vehicle, and can deny the dealer add-ons as part of your negotiations.

You are not forced to do it but I'm sure that you are aware that sneaky car dealers will sneak things by you because most don't read the contract. For higher value things, I always read it BUT I often sign things for my kids school and there are many pages and I don't have the time to read everything I'm signing.

That's call custom home building and it will absolutely cost you more than a spec built home. Builders, especially tract home builders, will build them upgraded even though they advertise the entry level price. And unless the market is weak you will not negotiate much away.

My point is that when you are buying a home and you want to buy it for the advertised price, you usually can do so if you go with the lowest trim level. You are NOT forced to upgrade. A custom home is of course different. It's not a set price from the beginning.. I'm talking about buying a house from a developer, being able to choose from different models and trim levels. You will be able to get a house for the advertised price if you go with the lowest trim levels. Each "UPGRADE" will be priced separately and added IF THE CUSTOMER CHOOSES to.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

There are already truth in advertising laws on the books.

Yes, I understand that. As long as there is a disclaimer in small print somewhere on the page, they can protect themselves legally from claims that they didn't state certain things. Dealers will do whatever they can to make people NOT look at the disclaimer.. It's usually in very small print with a small asterisk on the bottom of the page. The WHOLE intent of showing a much lower price that you will actually pay is to mislead. There is no other reason. Sure, people like you and me won't get easily misled but as I said before. A sucker is born every day. This doesn't mean that those people deserve to get screwed because they didn't win in the IQ lottery.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Where did I say anything about it "infringing on the free market"? I'll give you a hint. I didn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with the MARKET, no matter how many times you say it.



Who in the hell is arguing about PRICING? You're saying that the government should regulate how search engines display results on privately held websites so it makes your search easier. That has nothing to do with PRICING. It has nothing to do with the MARKET.

After this many posts, how is it possible that you still don't even understand the argument?

All I'm saying that "TRUTH IN ADVERTISING" LAWS should also regulate that discounts that NOT everyone gets should not be taken out but listed below the advertised price. It's just an amendment to reduce misleading customers.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You are not forced to do it but I'm sure that you are aware that sneaky car dealers will sneak things by you because most don't read the contract.

Stop giving vague nonsense answers. Give an actual example.

When you do, keep in mind that absolutely every penny of a sale is detailed on the very first bill of sale summary.

So rather than hypothetical crap, tell us what, exactly, "sneaky car dealers" are putting in contracts.