Water leak question

[Aerovette]

Trying to help an old friend.

She said water is collecting in front of her house and doesn't know the source.

Sprinkler guy says her sprinkler heads are leaking.

City says it is not their lines. Leak is after the meter

She has a pool but NO autofill

The water at the street "appears" to come from a black corrugated drain that empties at the curb. I think it is unrelated to her meter indicating flow.

It looked like a French Drain outlet so I went to the grate in the backyard and dumped 5 gallons of water in the drain. Not a drop went to the street.

I shut the sprinkler inlet off and shut the house supply line off...the meter still indicated flow (small red triangle turning)

I deduced the leak is between the street/meter and the house.

Sprinkler heads only leak when the sprinkler is on and it has its own flow indicator that is rock still.

A "specialist" plumber came out and his diagnosis is the tree next to her meter has possibly cracked a line.

The entire yard is equally moist. No swampy areas.

I considered that the house shutoff may have bypass and would allow flow BUT no sinks drip, no toilets run, so even if it is allowing flow...where is the water going? Ruled that out.

Big question is...The city planted the trees at the curb long ago. Do they have any liability in the repair if it turns out the tree cracked the line after the meter?

It looks like the sprinkler branches off BEFORE the main shut off to the house and before the sprinkler flow indicator. That would also explain flow with the house turned off. BUT still the ground is not swampy. Being in Texas means the lines are probably not even buried 1 foot, which should make the ground muddy.

What do you think is going on?

[Murray]

Sounds like there’s a leak… somewhere

[Newby]

How big is the leak? GPM

[Anjdog2003]

I got as far as "Trying to help an old friend".

[DDSLT5]

Originally Posted by Anjdog2003

I got as far as "Trying to help an old friend".

You got farther than I did

[bsmith]

anything past the curb stop is her responsibility, and I'd be absolutely shocked if the city took responsibility

[Frankie the Fink]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Trying to help an old friend.

She said water is collecting in front of her house and doesn't know the source.

Sprinkler guy says her sprinkler heads are leaking.

City says it is not their lines. Leak is after the meter

She has a pool but NO autofill

The water at the street "appears" to come from a black corrugated drain that empties at the curb. I think it is unrelated to her meter indicating flow.

It looked like a French Drain outlet so I went to the grate in the backyard and dumped 5 gallons of water in the drain. Not a drop went to the street.

I shut the sprinkler inlet off and shut the house supply line off...the meter still indicated flow (small red triangle turning)

I deduced the leak is between the street/meter and the house.

Sprinkler heads only leak when the sprinkler is on and it has its own flow indicator that is rock still.

A "specialist" plumber came out and his diagnosis is the tree next to her meter has possibly cracked a line.

The entire yard is equally moist. No swampy areas.

I considered that the house shutoff may have bypass and would allow flow BUT no sinks drip, no toilets run, so even if it is allowing flow...where is the water going? Ruled that out.

Big question is...The city planted the trees at the curb long ago. Do they have any liability in the repair if it turns out the tree cracked the line after the meter?

It looks like the sprinkler branches off BEFORE the main shut off to the house and before the sprinkler flow indicator. That would also explain flow with the house turned off. BUT still the ground is not swampy. Being in Texas means the lines are probably not even buried 1 foot, which should make the ground muddy.

What do you think is going on?

An oak tree root grew through and cracked my main line to the house and I didn't even know it (no loss of pressure) until I went up to my ankles in water in the grass nearby.

No help from the city on my $500 water bill and my plumber pal and I hand dug it up, re-routed it in Florida in July - not my idea of fun.

When I asked the city what if I was a snowbird and the house was empty for 5 months with that leak and the bill was $5,000 ? Town clerk gave me a shrug. You mean they can't notify you when a water bill is 10x what you normally have paid for 22 years ?

[Yadkin]

Originally Posted by bsmith

anything past the curb stop is her responsibility, and I'd be absolutely shocked if the city took responsibility

This.

Yes, she has a leak between the meter and the house.

Some municipalities will "forgive" a portion of a water bill when a leak like that occurs. That amount would be calculated on the extra water compared to the long term average, multiplied by the percentage of the bill dedicated to the sewer fee. Because leaked water didn't flow to the sewer...

[Frankie the Fink]

Originally Posted by Yadkin

This.

Yes, she has a leak between the meter and the house.

Some municipalities will "forgive" a portion of a water bill when a leak like that occurs. That amount would be calculated on the extra water compared to the long term average, multiplied by the percentage of the bill dedicated to the sewer fee. Because leaked water didn't flow to the sewer...

Didn't know the sewer angle, but makes sense, I'm on a lake so I have a sophisticated septic drain and lift system - but city sewage is coming..

[Bill]

There is a break, yes, it's in between the meter and the house. Time to break out the coathanger "divining rod" and locate the water pipe. You do that by running a bunch of water through, maybe run a couple of bathtubs, grasp the bent rod loosely, and walk perpendicular to the way the pipe must run. Keep doing that, and you'll have an idea where the line runs. You'll know when you are over the pipe. Serious. I've seen the old timer pipeliners locate pipelines that way, and they are generally spot on, confirmed with an actual pipe locator that chases cathodic protection, or the electric the locator pipe shoots into the pipe.

Could be a root, could also be a pvc coupling that the glue has failed on, and is now leaking. Depending on the age of the home, the pipe might be down a couple of feet, but most probably is about 18", from what I have seen.

If you have the luxury of time, have her cut off the water at the meter for a week or two, wait for the lawn to dry up, then turn the water back on. When you see the wet spot form, there's the spot.

Bonus, she can just come stay with you for that week while there's no water at the house!

Otherwise, you'll just have to start digging random spots along the water line. When you do excavate a spot, you might see some water traveling along the outside of the pipe, which will tell you that the leak is upstream of where you just dug.

[jw38]

You guys are failing here. Pics of female friend.

[KenHorse]

The entire yard is equally moist. No swampy areas.

So no swamp grASS?

[slewfoot]

I picked up on the tree by the meter and the city planted them, If your "old friend" ends up fixing it, save all the receipts and head off to city risk management.

Better yet call them first and explain.


Our home is 27 years old. They had planted 2 trees in every yard. One in the middle and one by the driveway. I pulled the one by the driveway.

Now, 27 years later, at least 1/2 the driveways in the subdivision are split with a root hump from the tree. One house that was sold a couple years ago had to have a new roof and driveway for the sale to go through.

When the concrete guys came by and dug it all out and saw the root, they refused to complete it until the tree was removed.

Leaks can drive you nuts. Just last fall, another neighbor a few homes down had a leak on the bottom floor in the bathroom area. He couldn't find it. He went up stairs to check everything and nothing.

Well it had to be in the wall so...... he did some carving and came up empty and the leak persisted. Turns out the leak wasn't even in the damn house!

It was out in the middle of the yard 30ft from the house. When the main water line broke, it did nothing to the yard at all and just followed the pipe to the house and came up through the toliet area

[Onebadcad]

I had this issue, water bill alerted me, it was between meter and house, called the guy, $600, no problems after.
And as luck would have it, no one else in the other 132 homes have had this issue.

Here is the man in your area:
https://www.americanleakdetection.com/houston/

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Murray

Sounds like there’s a leak… somewhere

I hadn't considered that possibility. I'm going to pass that on and see if it helps.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Newby

How big is the leak? GPM

I am not sure what the resolution of the dial and meter are.

I don't know if one rotation of the dial/needle is a gallon, 10 gallons, 100 gallons, etc. In about 15-20 minutes the dial moved from 6.5 to 7.5.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I am not sure what the resolution of the dial and meter are.

I don't know if one rotation of the dial/needle is a gallon, 10 gallons, 100 gallons, etc. In about 15-20 minutes the dial moved from 6.5 to 7.5.

Look at her previous usage. She should be fairly stable once the sprinkler system was turned off at the end of last Summer.

What was her average usage, and what is it now? That should also indicate WHEN the break happened, and/or got worse. Once you know the current excess consumption, compare it to the baseline average, and voila, that's how much you'r leaking. Divide by 30 and find out approx how much is leaking a day.

That's all interesting, but doesn't really solve your problem. To solve the problem, you have to find the pipe, dig it up, look for clues about which way the water is flowing, then proceed in that direction.


Unless the lawn slopes DOWN to the house, I doubt the leak is close to the meter, instead, probably closer to the house side somewhat near the demarcation line where there's dry ground.

[KenHorse]

If sprinkler heads are the ones leaking, the problem has to be the valve(s) that control them

[Swany00]

After the meter, it's on her. Hopefully they will give her a reprieve on her water bill. I had a $6k bill one month from a cracked irrigation line that wasn't showing wetness anywhere, the crack went straight down. Had to charge the lines with CO2 to find the leak (cost $500 at the time) but saved me a ton of money. The county forgave the bill since I provided them proof of an irrigation leak. The plumbing company said they'd fix the leak for $1800, I laughed and said no wonder you fuckers have a sprint car at the local track, I'll cap it myself.

[6spdC6]

Originally Posted by Swany00

After the meter, it's on her. Hopefully they will give her a reprieve on her water bill. I had a $6k bill one month from a cracked irrigation line that wasn't showing wetness anywhere, the crack went straight down. Had to charge the lines with CO2 to find the leak (cost $500 at the time) but saved me a ton of money. The county forgave the bill since I provided them proof of an irrigation leak. The plumbing company said they'd fix the leak for $1800, I laughed and said no wonder you fuckers have a sprint car at the local track, I'll cap it myself.

I guess different areas different things.

The area I used to live in the water meters were inside the house about a foot above the cellar floor, of course its on the house owner!

Now from the curb cock in with houses over 70'away lines buried at about 5' down or so from that it could get expensive.