Choose your color scheme:
The Vette Barn  
 
Go Back   The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Off Topic

Off Topic Off Topic - General non-Corvette related discussion.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-30-2023, 1:34am   #1
cptlo306
Senior Lurker
Barn Stall Owner #95
Points: 16,745, Level: 89
Activity: 12.2%
 
cptlo306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,439
Thanks: 2,800
Thanked 1,211 Times in 581 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $750520
Default Any concrete experts here?

If so, I could use some help. I've got a couple of questions for a possible concrete driveway option. Driveway will be approximately 125 feet long.

1. What is the typical thickness for a residential driveway? I've been quoted 4" and that seems to match what I've read online, but it also says that 4" is the minimum thickness. Would it be worthwhile to go thicker?

2. Is rebar necessary? One quote includes rebar and one doesn't. The one with rebar also mentions concrete with fiber.

3. Is it normal for concrete to be poured directly on dirt or should there be a gravel base?

4. Lastly, would an asphalt driveway be a lot cheaper?

Thanks in advance!!
cptlo306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2023, 5:06am   #2
Louie Detroit
Barn Stall Owner #0331
Points: 40,931, Level: 100
Activity: 31.7%
 
Louie Detroit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: USMC 0331 Forever
Posts: 14,686
Thanks: 8,415
Thanked 7,708 Times in 3,128 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $500
Default

It would be nice if someone from the other place could entice Dave Concrete to come over here. He knows everything ce-ment.
Louie Detroit is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Louie Detroit For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 5:58am   #3
Rodnok1
A Real Barner
Points: 41,825, Level: 100
Activity: 61.9%
 
Rodnok1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 16,995
Thanks: 4,837
Thanked 23,718 Times in 9,803 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $315482
Default

4 inches is typical, 6 inches is overkill unless you have alot of semi traffic.
On occasion I've seen mesh used but can't recall rebar being used. Fiber yes as it's cheap and adds strength. What PSI are the quotes for?
Since you're in the South, yes it's common to slap it down without gravel under it. It's all about drainage and compaction. If you're puttimg in an area thats soft then maybe yes on gravel.
Asphalt usually quite a bit cheaper, only downside is doesn't like cars parked long term on it nor jacks/stands which is why people usually pour concrete by garages.
Rodnok1 is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Rodnok1 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 6:29am   #4
LATB
A Real Barner
Points: 121,733, Level: 100
Activity: 99.3%
 
LATB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Green Acres is the place to be...
Posts: 36,865
Thanks: 6,234
Thanked 22,931 Times in 10,393 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8122190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptlo306 View Post
If so, I could use some help. I've got a couple of questions for a possible concrete driveway option. Driveway will be approximately 125 feet long.

1. What is the typical thickness for a residential driveway? 4" but keep in mind, if 2x4's are used as forms, you will only get 3 1/2"

I've been quoted 4" and that seems to match what I've read online, but it also says that 4" is the minimum thickness. Would it be worthwhile to go thicker? Yes if it fits your budget.

2. Is rebar necessary? No
One quote includes rebar and one doesn't. The one with rebar also mentions concrete with fiber. Fiber is not necessary. Most cracking is due to expansion/contraction. This is best mitigated with good expansion control with cut or tooled joints. Key-way is even better IMO

3. Is it normal for concrete to be poured directly on dirt Yes, compacted

or should there be a gravel base?Wont hurt but not necessary unless you are in a freeze/thaw environment

4. Lastly, would an asphalt driveway be a lot cheaper?Maybe/maybe not. Small asphalt jobs are not cheap

Thanks in advance!!
It really all comes down to your budget. Have plenty of cash to throw at it...your driveway can be built as a structural slab. Most are not.
LATB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LATB For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 6:38am   #5
LATB
A Real Barner
Points: 121,733, Level: 100
Activity: 99.3%
 
LATB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Green Acres is the place to be...
Posts: 36,865
Thanks: 6,234
Thanked 22,931 Times in 10,393 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8122190
Default

Also...

A lot of it comes down to a good contractor/finisher.

The psi mix and slump are very important. The higher the psi the stronger but also the more "tempered" the cured product. A psi over 3000/3500 is not necessary for a non structural slab.

Too much water added at the site will weaken the mix. Too much time in the truck will create a "hot mix" and not give the finisher the right amount of time to properly finish the slab.

Chemicals can be added to accelerate or retard the mix.

Once the concrete goes into the chemical plastic state it can be over finished. This will cause scaling and once the top is compromised it is game over in a few years.

A good concrete man will tell you...
The mix is science.
The finish is art.
LATB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LATB For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 6:41am   #6
LATB
A Real Barner
Points: 121,733, Level: 100
Activity: 99.3%
 
LATB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Green Acres is the place to be...
Posts: 36,865
Thanks: 6,234
Thanked 22,931 Times in 10,393 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8122190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie Detroit View Post
It would be nice if someone from the other place could entice Dave Concrete to come over here. He knows everything ce-ment.

Dave is an expert in the field.

Also a good guy and true craftsman.
LATB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LATB For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 6:44am   #7
TheHammer
A Real Barner
Points: 12,792, Level: 78
Activity: 7.9%
 
TheHammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,547
Thanks: 87
Thanked 827 Times in 447 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $2149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptlo306 View Post
If so, I could use some help. I've got a couple of questions for a possible concrete driveway option. Driveway will be approximately 125 feet long.

1. What is the typical thickness for a residential driveway? I've been quoted 4" and that seems to match what I've read online, but it also says that 4" is the minimum thickness. Would it be worthwhile to go thicker?

2. Is rebar necessary? One quote includes rebar and one doesn't. The one with rebar also mentions concrete with fiber.

3. Is it normal for concrete to be poured directly on dirt or should there be a gravel base?

4. Lastly, would an asphalt driveway be a lot cheaper?

Thanks in advance!!
If it's a normal driveway and not projecting any heavy loads, at a minimum, I'd pay for the added fiber. Inexpensive adder and does add durability and minimizes crack growth.

Wire mesh is usually used in residential horizontal concrete pours with 3 1/2" thickness. Not rebar.
TheHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheHammer For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 6:47am   #8
Yadkin
Barn Stall Owner #112
Points: 44,398, Level: 100
Activity: 99.7%
 
Yadkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 15,146
Thanks: 5,864
Thanked 4,290 Times in 2,478 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $500
Default

In NC we use type ABC crushed stone as a base layer under either asphalt or concrete pavements. GA is probably the same. ABC stands for aggregate base course. It is manufactured crushed stone without screening, largest size about an inch, thus includes all the smaller sizes including dust. It is normally the least expensive manufactured stone product. Spread out and roller-compacted, it filters out soil below, and spreads out the loads above. Minimum thickness is 4".

ABC "sets up" so is difficult to fine grade, so many contractors will use a 2 to 4-inch later of #78 stone over it and fine grade. This will make the concrete thickness above a more consistent thickness.

4" is the minimum concrete thickness. For a driveway that may see larger delivery vehicles, you may consider 5", depending on the strength of your base soil and subbase structure. Fiber increases the toughness of concrete, making it less likely to crack under an impact load. A light welded wire fabric does a better job at this, but is more difficult to install correctly. Fiber is nearly foolproof.

Control joints should be cut in at regular 12 to 16-foot intervals. Make squares, or rectangles no more than 1.5 to 1 ratio. These can be scored during the initial surface treatment or saw-cut a day later.

On long projects use expansion joints between every third- or fourth joint. Plan this with your contractor for his preferred material. Typical products are asphalt impregnated board or closed cell foam board. Some use treated wood.

Work with the finishing crew on a watering schedule to keep the mix cool during the curing process. Typically this is done with a lawn sprinkler starting a day after finishing.
Yadkin is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Yadkin For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 6:59am   #9
LATB
A Real Barner
Points: 121,733, Level: 100
Activity: 99.3%
 
LATB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Green Acres is the place to be...
Posts: 36,865
Thanks: 6,234
Thanked 22,931 Times in 10,393 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8122190
Default

I'm in agreement with the hammer and the engineer.
LATB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LATB For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 7:36am   #10
slewfoot
Barn Stall Owner #118
Points: 18,658, Level: 94
Activity: 53.6%
 
slewfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: MAGA - Through Fear & Intimidation
Posts: 3,759
Thanks: 97
Thanked 1,925 Times in 1,125 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1002672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie Detroit View Post
It would be nice if someone from the other place could entice Dave Concrete to come over here. He knows everything ce-ment.

Lars covered it it all.

Most residential is a 2000-2500 mix. Most govt/city jobs like sidewalks & curbs are 3000-4000mix

One thing I did not see brought up here is the contractors crew that shows up can really **** up the mix by adding too much water at the site. Then try to pass off on you that it's fine because they are the experts.

Average slump is 4 inches but many crews like to soup it up with a shitload of water to make it easier on them to work with resulting in a loss of structural integrity for what you paid for.

Crews can really get cute during govt jobs. After the testor checks it out, they wait until he packs up and leaves before adding all the water.

There are recipes the redi mix company can put together to avoid adding water or things like Lars brought up such as adding fiber if you want instead of rebar. Driveways really don't use it. Adding too much water to the load is bad, M-kay?

I worked with a concrete company for several years. My job was to make sure the drivers showed up at a site with the proper load and not mess it up so that people like Yaddy would not reject it.

Once the crews got a hold of it and make adjustments, they bought it.
slewfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to slewfoot For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 7:39am   #11
LATB
A Real Barner
Points: 121,733, Level: 100
Activity: 99.3%
 
LATB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Green Acres is the place to be...
Posts: 36,865
Thanks: 6,234
Thanked 22,931 Times in 10,393 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8122190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slewfoot View Post
Lars covered it it all.

Most residential is a 2000-2500 mix. Most govt/city jobs like sidewalks & curbs are 3000-4000mix

One thing I did not see brought up here is the contractors crew that shows up can really **** up the mix by adding too much water at the site. Then try to pass off on you that it's fine because they are the experts.

Average slump is 4 inches but many crews like to soup it up with a shitload of water to make it easier on them to work with resulting in a loss of structural integrity for what you paid for.

Crews can really get cute during govt jobs. After the testor checks it out, they wait until he packs up and leaves before adding all the water.

There are recipes the redi mix company can put together to avoid adding water or things like Lars brought up such as adding fiver if you want instead of rebar. Driveways really don't use it.

Adding too much water to the load is bad, M-kay?
Post #5
LATB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LATB For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 7:43am   #12
Black94lt1
Barn Stall Owner #13
Barn Raising II,III,IV

NCM Supporter '13,'14,'16,'17,'19,'20
Bantayan Kids '13,'15,'17
GTMS ‘18
Points: 24,799, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Black94lt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ypsilanti, Mi
Posts: 13,274
Thanks: 7,770
Thanked 2,638 Times in 1,953 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $425244
Default

Asphalt costs are driven by oil prices, so it can be quite variable. In the north asphalt is nice as it helps with snow melt, but it can be soft in the summer. Both will crack, but asphalt is somewhat easier to repair.
Black94lt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Black94lt1 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 7:46am   #13
Strats-N-Vettes
SOME Real Barner
Points: 172,094, Level: 100
Activity: 8.1%
 
Strats-N-Vettes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ♫♫ ♪ ♫♫♫ ♪ ♫♫
Posts: 12,934
Thanks: 120
Thanked 25,339 Times in 9,150 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $2034428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LATB View Post
Post #5

Do they still use/add fiber mesh?
Strats-N-Vettes is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Strats-N-Vettes For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 8:01am   #14
6spdC6
A Real Barner
Points: 20,998, Level: 99
Activity: 29.1%
 
6spdC6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NorthernNY! (A little town on the shores of the Great Sacandaga Lake) in the peoples republic of NY
Posts: 10,023
Thanks: 5,345
Thanked 3,305 Times in 1,802 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $2115673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slewfoot View Post
Lars covered it it all.

Most residential is a 2000-2500 mix. Most govt/city jobs like sidewalks & curbs are 3000-4000mix

One thing I did not see brought up here is the contractors crew that shows up can really **** up the mix by adding too much water at the site. Then try to pass off on you that it's fine because they are the experts.

Average slump is 4 inches but many crews like to soup it up with a shitload of water to make it easier on them to work with resulting in a loss of structural integrity for what you paid for.

Crews can really get cute during govt jobs. After the testor checks it out, they wait until he packs up and leaves before adding all the water.

There are recipes the redi mix company can put together to avoid adding water or things like Lars brought up such as adding fiber if you want instead of rebar. Driveways really don't use it. Adding too much water to the load is bad, M-kay?


I worked with a concrete company for several years. My job was to make sure the drivers showed up at at a site with e proper load and not mess it up so that people like Yaddy would not reject it.

Once the crews got a hold of it and made adjustments, they bought it.
As a union laborer I worked for a couple years for a outfit that specialized in bridges. We had at least 2 very knowledgeable concrete persons from the engineering outfit present the whole time any pour was going on. If he was not happy he would get things straightened out fast. Needles to say as we built bridges the specs we adhered to were very tight.

For most of that job on that interstate hiway I ran the horse cock (vibrator) and if that was used wrong you could have serious problems. I did not mind a engineer staying close to me I did not like to have honeycomb.

Our work was good that was in 68-69 and those bridges are still in good shape, I drive over them or under them regularly!
6spdC6 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 6spdC6 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 8:01am   #15
LATB
A Real Barner
Points: 121,733, Level: 100
Activity: 99.3%
 
LATB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Green Acres is the place to be...
Posts: 36,865
Thanks: 6,234
Thanked 22,931 Times in 10,393 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8122190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strats-N-Vettes View Post
Do they still use/add fiber mesh?
Yes.
Some love it others don't.
If the concrete will remain exposed, I'm not a fan. It can show in the finish. Especially a broom finish.
LATB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LATB For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 8:03am   #16
LATB
A Real Barner
Points: 121,733, Level: 100
Activity: 99.3%
 
LATB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Green Acres is the place to be...
Posts: 36,865
Thanks: 6,234
Thanked 22,931 Times in 10,393 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8122190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6spdC6 View Post
As a union laborer I worked for a couple years for a outfit that specialized in bridges. We had at least 2 very knowledgeable concrete persons from the engineering outfit present the whole time any pour was going on. If he was not happy he would get things straightened out fast. Needles to say as we built bridges the specs we adhered to were very tight.

For most of that job on that interstate hiway I ran the horse cock (vibrator) and if that was used wrong you could have serious problems. I did not mind a engineer staying close to me I did not like to have honeycomb.

Our work was good that was in 68-69 and those bridges are still in good shape, I drive over them or under them regularly!
[knooger] I'm in [knooger]
LATB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LATB For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 8:07am   #17
Strats-N-Vettes
SOME Real Barner
Points: 172,094, Level: 100
Activity: 8.1%
 
Strats-N-Vettes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ♫♫ ♪ ♫♫♫ ♪ ♫♫
Posts: 12,934
Thanks: 120
Thanked 25,339 Times in 9,150 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $2034428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LATB View Post
Yes.
Some love it others don't.
If the concrete will remain exposed, I'm not a fan. It can show in the finish. Especially a broom finish.

Thought so.
IIRC; used pretty frequently here with road rock on smaller jobs where finish and weight is not an issue.
I don't know anybody(here) that has used wire mesh is why I asked.


Thanks
Strats-N-Vettes is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Strats-N-Vettes For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 8:27am   #18
TheRealBadger
A Real Barner
Points: 7,423, Level: 60
Activity: 46.1%
 
TheRealBadger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 8
Thanked 617 Times in 467 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $500
Default

Put down a very large driveway last year so I can only give you my experience. We are in the north too, so enviro is different. My driveway is 1,000 ft long. About 12,000 sq ft total.

Ours is 5” thick on 5” base. In some spots the old gravel driveway that was 100 yes old was so compact and hard they couldn’t excavate, so the put down a few inches of base and poured on that. We did not use fiber mesh. It’s cheaper and easier, but doesn’t hold up well outdoors is what we were told. We have full metal mesh laid through the whole thing.

We have hand-tooled joints about every 8 feet mostly because it’s so large and risk of movement with weather.

It’s hand broom finished and sealed.

It’s overkill, but I expect it’ll be around forever. I’m not sure you need all that in the south.
TheRealBadger is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheRealBadger For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2023, 8:47pm   #19
cptlo306
Senior Lurker
Barn Stall Owner #95
Points: 16,745, Level: 89
Activity: 12.2%
 
cptlo306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,439
Thanks: 2,800
Thanked 1,211 Times in 581 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $750520
Default

Thanks everyone!!! Lots of great info and I really appreciate it.

cptlo306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2023, 9:21pm   #20
LATB
A Real Barner
Points: 121,733, Level: 100
Activity: 99.3%
 
LATB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Green Acres is the place to be...
Posts: 36,865
Thanks: 6,234
Thanked 22,931 Times in 10,393 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8122190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptlo306 View Post
Thanks everyone!!! Lots of great info and I really appreciate it.

A lot of giving each other the chit around here. But truth is, there’s a lot of talent and expertise to go around.
LATB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LATB For This Useful Post:
Reply

The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Off Topic


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 3:56pm.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 - 2024 The Vette Barn


Support the Barn:
 
Download the Mobile App;
 
Follow us on Facebook:

Become a Stall Owner

 

Apple iOS App        Google Android App

 

Visit our Facebook page