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05-30-2023, 1:34am | #1 | ||||||
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Any concrete experts here?
If so, I could use some help. I've got a couple of questions for a possible concrete driveway option. Driveway will be approximately 125 feet long.
1. What is the typical thickness for a residential driveway? I've been quoted 4" and that seems to match what I've read online, but it also says that 4" is the minimum thickness. Would it be worthwhile to go thicker? 2. Is rebar necessary? One quote includes rebar and one doesn't. The one with rebar also mentions concrete with fiber. 3. Is it normal for concrete to be poured directly on dirt or should there be a gravel base? 4. Lastly, would an asphalt driveway be a lot cheaper? Thanks in advance!! |
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05-30-2023, 5:06am | #2 | ||||||
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It would be nice if someone from the other place could entice Dave Concrete to come over here. He knows everything ce-ment.
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05-30-2023, 5:58am | #3 | ||||||
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4 inches is typical, 6 inches is overkill unless you have alot of semi traffic.
On occasion I've seen mesh used but can't recall rebar being used. Fiber yes as it's cheap and adds strength. What PSI are the quotes for? Since you're in the South, yes it's common to slap it down without gravel under it. It's all about drainage and compaction. If you're puttimg in an area thats soft then maybe yes on gravel. Asphalt usually quite a bit cheaper, only downside is doesn't like cars parked long term on it nor jacks/stands which is why people usually pour concrete by garages. |
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05-30-2023, 6:29am | #4 | |||||||
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Quote:
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05-30-2023, 6:38am | #5 | ||||||
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Also...
A lot of it comes down to a good contractor/finisher. The psi mix and slump are very important. The higher the psi the stronger but also the more "tempered" the cured product. A psi over 3000/3500 is not necessary for a non structural slab. Too much water added at the site will weaken the mix. Too much time in the truck will create a "hot mix" and not give the finisher the right amount of time to properly finish the slab. Chemicals can be added to accelerate or retard the mix. Once the concrete goes into the chemical plastic state it can be over finished. This will cause scaling and once the top is compromised it is game over in a few years. A good concrete man will tell you... The mix is science. The finish is art. |
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05-30-2023, 6:41am | #6 | ||||||
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05-30-2023, 6:44am | #7 | |||||||
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Wire mesh is usually used in residential horizontal concrete pours with 3 1/2" thickness. Not rebar. |
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05-30-2023, 6:47am | #8 | ||||||
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In NC we use type ABC crushed stone as a base layer under either asphalt or concrete pavements. GA is probably the same. ABC stands for aggregate base course. It is manufactured crushed stone without screening, largest size about an inch, thus includes all the smaller sizes including dust. It is normally the least expensive manufactured stone product. Spread out and roller-compacted, it filters out soil below, and spreads out the loads above. Minimum thickness is 4".
ABC "sets up" so is difficult to fine grade, so many contractors will use a 2 to 4-inch later of #78 stone over it and fine grade. This will make the concrete thickness above a more consistent thickness. 4" is the minimum concrete thickness. For a driveway that may see larger delivery vehicles, you may consider 5", depending on the strength of your base soil and subbase structure. Fiber increases the toughness of concrete, making it less likely to crack under an impact load. A light welded wire fabric does a better job at this, but is more difficult to install correctly. Fiber is nearly foolproof. Control joints should be cut in at regular 12 to 16-foot intervals. Make squares, or rectangles no more than 1.5 to 1 ratio. These can be scored during the initial surface treatment or saw-cut a day later. On long projects use expansion joints between every third- or fourth joint. Plan this with your contractor for his preferred material. Typical products are asphalt impregnated board or closed cell foam board. Some use treated wood. Work with the finishing crew on a watering schedule to keep the mix cool during the curing process. Typically this is done with a lawn sprinkler starting a day after finishing. |
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05-30-2023, 6:59am | #9 | ||||||
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I'm in agreement with the hammer and the engineer.
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05-30-2023, 7:36am | #10 | |||||||
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Lars covered it it all. Most residential is a 2000-2500 mix. Most govt/city jobs like sidewalks & curbs are 3000-4000mix One thing I did not see brought up here is the contractors crew that shows up can really **** up the mix by adding too much water at the site. Then try to pass off on you that it's fine because they are the experts. Average slump is 4 inches but many crews like to soup it up with a shitload of water to make it easier on them to work with resulting in a loss of structural integrity for what you paid for. Crews can really get cute during govt jobs. After the testor checks it out, they wait until he packs up and leaves before adding all the water. There are recipes the redi mix company can put together to avoid adding water or things like Lars brought up such as adding fiber if you want instead of rebar. Driveways really don't use it. Adding too much water to the load is bad, M-kay? I worked with a concrete company for several years. My job was to make sure the drivers showed up at a site with the proper load and not mess it up so that people like Yaddy would not reject it. Once the crews got a hold of it and make adjustments, they bought it. |
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05-30-2023, 7:39am | #11 | |||||||
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05-30-2023, 7:43am | #12 | ||||||
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Asphalt costs are driven by oil prices, so it can be quite variable. In the north asphalt is nice as it helps with snow melt, but it can be soft in the summer. Both will crack, but asphalt is somewhat easier to repair.
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05-30-2023, 7:46am | #13 | ||||||
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05-30-2023, 8:01am | #14 | |||||||
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For most of that job on that interstate hiway I ran the horse cock (vibrator) and if that was used wrong you could have serious problems. I did not mind a engineer staying close to me I did not like to have honeycomb. Our work was good that was in 68-69 and those bridges are still in good shape, I drive over them or under them regularly! |
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05-30-2023, 8:01am | #15 | ||||||
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05-30-2023, 8:03am | #16 | |||||||
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05-30-2023, 8:07am | #17 | |||||||
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Thought so. IIRC; used pretty frequently here with road rock on smaller jobs where finish and weight is not an issue. I don't know anybody(here) that has used wire mesh is why I asked. Thanks |
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05-30-2023, 8:27am | #18 | ||||||
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Put down a very large driveway last year so I can only give you my experience. We are in the north too, so enviro is different. My driveway is 1,000 ft long. About 12,000 sq ft total.
Ours is 5” thick on 5” base. In some spots the old gravel driveway that was 100 yes old was so compact and hard they couldn’t excavate, so the put down a few inches of base and poured on that. We did not use fiber mesh. It’s cheaper and easier, but doesn’t hold up well outdoors is what we were told. We have full metal mesh laid through the whole thing. We have hand-tooled joints about every 8 feet mostly because it’s so large and risk of movement with weather. It’s hand broom finished and sealed. It’s overkill, but I expect it’ll be around forever. I’m not sure you need all that in the south. |
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05-30-2023, 8:47pm | #19 | ||||||
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Thanks everyone!!! Lots of great info and I really appreciate it.
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05-30-2023, 9:21pm | #20 | ||||||
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