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Old 11-14-2016, 07:27pm   #1
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Default Remember the bakery that refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

To refresh your memory, in 2013, "Sweetcakes by Melissa" was put out of business by Oregon Democrat Brad Avakian who was the commissioner of the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries. This was all due to Melissa and Aaron Klein standing up for their religious convictions. They were fined $135,000 for refusing to make a cake for a gay marriage–the State also garnished their bank accounts to cover the fines. After everything was completed, Klein said the State took $144,000 from them.

This year, in the recent election, the voters fought back. In fact, they ended Avakian’s run for Oregon Secretary of State. Instead, they voted in Republican Dennis Richardson–this is the first time in 14 years a Republican has won the State office. Oregon is a solidly blue state–-perhaps, some voters are starting to wake up?

Aaron Kline, a talk show host, said, "His losing was a good sign that people don’t agree with somebody who is anti-constitutional to the nth degree. He never recognized our religious constitutional rights in his office. He just ignored them. And then he went off-kilter with ideas about what he wanted to do in his new office. He used his office to execute a personal bias and I think people thought he’d do the same with Secretary of State."

The Kleins can never recoup what has been stolen from their business.

Oregon Politician Who Bullied Christian Bakery Gets Taken Down in Election
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:44pm   #2
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They elected a Republican in Oregon?
Be sure to say your prayers tonight because the world must be going to end
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Old 11-14-2016, 08:27pm   #3
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Actually, the entire state is Republican except for the Portland and Eugene areas.
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Old 11-14-2016, 08:46pm   #4
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Originally Posted by The_Dude View Post
Actually, the entire state is Republican except for the Portland and Eugene areas.
My bad
Guess I have just seen too many stories out of Portland. You can say the same thing about Illinois. Chicago vs the rest of the state
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Old 11-14-2016, 08:52pm   #5
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If I lost that kind of money to a .gov agency, I would absolutely go postal.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:05pm   #6
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Hillary won 10 of 36 counties in Oregon.



In Washington State, Hillary only won 7 of 39 counties.



The most politically conservative state in the country, Idaho, sits next door to us.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:48am   #7
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I would love to see a map of those states that shows the voting results for the marijuana legalization.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:06am   #8
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I get the whole "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" thing...it's their prerogative to do this. But on a human level, I think it was kind of a shitty thing to do. Now these people have lost their business as a result. FWIW...I don't agree with what the politician did either. Talk about grandstanding.

In a time where we have a nation full of tattletales, people really need to ask themselves if their form of protest is worth the possible anguish. Some idiot millennial probably has a broken hip because she thought her protest (a protest over nothing, BTW) was worth standing in front of a speeding car. Seriously???

I mean, come on people. No one's asking you to preside over a gay wedding. It's a damn cake.
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:09am   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post
I get the whole "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" thing...it's their prerogative to do this. But on a human level, I think it was kind of a shitty thing to do. Now these people have lost their business as a result. FWIW...I don't agree with what the politician did either. Talk about grandstanding.

In a time where we have a nation full of tattletales, people really need to ask themselves if their form of protest is worth the possible anguish. Some idiot millennial probably has a broken hip because she thought her protest (a protest over nothing, BTW) was worth standing in front of a speeding car. Seriously???

I mean, come on people. No one's asking you to preside over a gay wedding. It's a damn cake.
My biggest thing is if they were true entrepreneurs, they would have done it for the $$$. Or even better, not make the cake but politely found another baker that was willing. In business, don't make enemies-make future customers.
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:22am   #10
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:26am   #11
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:42am   #12
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wow that is a ;
very hefty fine, indeed
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:50am   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post
I get the whole "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" thing...it's their prerogative to do this. But on a human level, I think it was kind of a shitty thing to do. Now these people have lost their business as a result. FWIW...I don't agree with what the politician did either. Talk about grandstanding.

In a time where we have a nation full of tattletales, people really need to ask themselves if their form of protest is worth the possible anguish. Some idiot millennial probably has a broken hip because she thought her protest (a protest over nothing, BTW) was worth standing in front of a speeding car. Seriously???

I mean, come on people. No one's asking you to preside over a gay wedding. It's a damn cake.
Quote:
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My biggest thing is if they were true entrepreneurs, they would have done it for the $$$. Or even better, not make the cake but politely found another baker that was willing. In business, don't make enemies-make future customers.
It is never about baking wedding cakes. It is about pushing an agenda. Would any logical person want to force a bakery to make a cake?

By this same logic, should a bakery be forced to bake a cake with a swastika for a gay skinhead's wedding? How about a caterer refusing to cater that same skinhead's gay wedding?
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Old 11-15-2016, 11:15am   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millenium Vette View Post
It is never about baking wedding cakes. It is about pushing an agenda. Would any logical person want to force a bakery to make a cake?

By this same logic, should a bakery be forced to bake a cake with a swastika for a gay skinhead's wedding? How about a caterer refusing to cater that same skinhead's gay wedding?
Well of course not, but then I wouldn't characterize a gay couple as being part of a hate group to the extent that the skinheads are. Technically, a private business should not be "forced" to do anything. I see the slippery slope argument, but that's kinda taking things to an extreme.

I just think the whole thing is a little silly and it could have been handled a lot better. I mean...losing your business over a cake? Vator is right: If you're running a business, it's really supposed to be about profit.
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Old 11-15-2016, 12:48pm   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post
Well of course not, but then I wouldn't characterize a gay couple as being part of a hate group to the extent that the skinheads are. Technically, a private business should not be "forced" to do anything. I see the slippery slope argument, but that's kinda taking things to an extreme.

I just think the whole thing is a little silly and it could have been handled a lot better. I mean...losing your business over a cake? Vator is right: If you're running a business, it's really supposed to be about profit.
Sometimes you have to take things to the extreme to make a point. To you and I, skinheads may be an offensive group that we would not equate to groups such as LBGT associated ones. However, that baker may see the LGBT groups in much the same way. Do we agree with that? In my case, no. However, it is not up to me to decide another person's morals or beliefs. And according to the constitution, it is not the government's place either. When a court rules to force a business to bake a cake for a gay wedding, it sets a legal precedent that could test the courts for years to come over being forced to bake a cake for any number of fringe groups.

Yes, businesses are in it to make money. Does that mean that if I own a cigar shop that I should be forced to sell weed and bongs since my state has passed a recreational pot law? Extreme example? Of course, but since it is only about making money I shouldn't care even if I am against smoking pot.

Not picking on you Chef, just raising a couple of points of the slippery slope when government gets involved.
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:02pm   #16
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In my mind, those people should have just quoted out the wazoo for the cake and let the customer decide. They'd still have their business and some healthy profits too. Don't use the business to send a message. Take the money and live the moral high road instead.

Amish people use power tools...they don't own them, but they use them. That's business versus lifestyle.
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:18pm   #17
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Upon being railroaded, I would have withdrawn every dime from any known bank and opened up a vault in another bank and let the $$$ set there in my box or if they have ways to follow that.....find a hole in the ground in a relative's back yard....or send the $$ in the mail to a family member in cash.....DAMN if one dime going to the effing .gov or any liberal cause de jeur.....

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Old 11-15-2016, 01:48pm   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxAg View Post
BTW, I see your POV and get the logic/thinking behind it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millenium Vette View Post
Not picking on you Chef, just raising a couple of points of the slippery slope when government gets involved.
No worries. Overall I just think the whole thing was unfortunate.

I (meaning me personally) just don't care for it when people let their ideology influence their business practices.
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:55pm   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxAg View Post
:Let the free market decide if a business deserves to stay in business.
Absolutely agree. If a gay friend said that he went to XYZ Bakery and they wouldn't bake him a wedding cake because he's gay, I wouldn't go to that bakery ever again. The bakery is supporting people's ability to eat cake; that's it. If there are enough people who have that militant of a viewpoint and keep the bakery in business, then hurray for them. It just wouldn't include me.

If the gay friend says he's suing XYZ Bakery to force them to make a cake, I'll start buying a cupcake (or six) every day. Don't be an a**hole.

Like what Iron Chef said, if it were my bakery, I'd happily take, say, Gavin Newsom's money for a cake. I'd be thrilled to read in the paper that Gavin Newsom was struck by lightning, but his money is just as green as everyone else's.
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Old 11-15-2016, 03:01pm   #20
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Questions:

1. If the bakery was asked to make a Kosher cake, would /could they be forced to comply?

2. If the KKK wanted a white hood cake, would they have gotten complete support by the same people that condemn them now?

3. If it was called Christian Bible Bakery, should the gay couple have had an expectation different than what they had?
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