If Obamacare is struck down...

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by Kerrmudgeon

Larry, I would voice my experience on how we Canadains made national healthcare work for citizens, but I'd rather not get shat on by the nay sayers/haters here. Anyone interested in HOW to make a system work should search the history of Canada's Health Care system. It wasn't initially like it is now, it was a national/provincial insurance plan with premiums paid by the family or individual, and evolved from there.

It works!

Thanks for your input. I knew that we'd have some politics sneak into this thread, but dayum! JoeTooool just couldn't resist trying to sell us some Obamaline for butt secks.

Would you answer some basic questions about the Canadain healthcare system? Anecdotal evidence says that Canadians come to the States for "quality" health care. No? How would you describe the quality of your health care?

All things considered--higher taxes for a government-run healthcare system, quality of care, difficulty of getting that care, red tape, what the system covers, etc.--are you satisfied with your health care vs. what you could get with private insurance?

[kingpin]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

Thanks for your input. I knew that we'd have some politics sneak into this thread, but dayum! JoeTooool just couldn't resist trying to sell us some Obamaline for butt secks.

Would you answer some basic questions about the Canadain healthcare system? Anecdotal evidence says that Canadians come to the States for "quality" health care. No? How would you describe the quality of your health care?

All things considered--higher taxes for a government-run healthcare system, quality of care, difficulty of getting that care, red tape, what the system covers, etc.--are you satisfied with your health care vs. what you could get with private insurance?

This WILL get ugly Larry. It's happened before. I'm not going to go any further because you can't compare how the 2 countries are run.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by NEVRL8T

I am 6'0" tall and weigh 210 pounds. By my doctor's BMI standards, I am 15 pounds overweight. Do you think I should pay more? I had a heart attack when I was 36. I weighed 190 then. Should I have paid more for insurance then? I did smoke though. I am not arguing with you, I am curious what you think.

No. You should not pay more. You are not the demographic I'm talking about. A heart attack at 36 is fairly rare I would think.

[lspencer534]

[QUOTE=kingpin;691832]This WILL get ugly Larry. It's happened before. I'm not going to go any further because you can't compare how the 2 countries are run.[/QUOTE

You're probably right. I just want to prepare myself and others for health care reform 'cause some kind of reform is inevitable. Our politicians will likely never fix our illegal immigration problem and welfare problems; instead we will get some system that tries to work around those issues. Our current "pay your own way" has too many critics to survive.

[Kerrmudgeon]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

Thanks for your input. I knew that we'd have some politics sneak into this thread, but dayum! JoeTooool just couldn't resist trying to sell us some Obamaline for butt secks.

Would you answer some basic questions about the Canadain healthcare system? Anecdotal evidence says that Canadians come to the States for "quality" health care. No? How would you describe the quality of your health care?

All things considered--higher taxes for a government-run healthcare system, quality of care, difficulty of getting that care, red tape, what the system covers, etc.--are you satisfied with your health care vs. what you could get with private insurance?

First, I would say that less than 1% of Canadians go to the States for health care, and it's only rich folks who can pay the outrageous cost for getting immediate service.
Second, as a injury ridden middle age warrior take it from me, it's wonderful! I've never waited for service, especially emergency care, more than an hour for non life threatening things. For example the night I broke my ankle at about 10pm, the ambulance came and got me in 10 minutes, and I was rushed to the hospital, an orthopedic surgeon was called in and operated on me from about midnight till 2am.(2 plates and 8 pins), 2 weeks in the hospital, 6 weeks of casts and post care. 2 years later hardware was removed. All covered.
No red tape, we have to produce our health card to show we are covered, ei a citizen, and we're good to go. Px's are not covered, nor eyeglasses, physiotherapy etc, but anything in a hospital is.
third, there is private insurance available I think, and for sure private clinics for the rich and famous to get immediate service, but it's rare.
Doctors bill the government for their services and are paid a stipulated rate for each proceedure, and are free to work as much or little as they want. There is a salary cap however to prevent fraud which was raised a few years ago 40% to stop Canadian schooled doctors from defecting to the big money of your country.

[Craig]

Do you guys (Canadians) have the level of fraud our Medicare system seems to have?

If the doctor had removed your pancreas instead of fixing your ankle, what are your options?

If you showed up at the hospital and there had been a bus crash and there were fifty people in front of you, would they have taken you somewhere else?

Do you have the same level of care everywhere in your country?

Not trying to be a smart ass, I'm curious.

Do you have enough after taxes to do anythig fun?

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by Kerrmudgeon

First, I would say that less than 1% of Canadians go to the States for health care, and it's only rich folks who can pay the outrageous cost for getting immediate service.
Second, as a injury ridden middle age warrior take it from me, it's wonderful! I've never waited for service, especially emergency care, more than an hour for non life threatening things. For example the night I broke my ankle at about 10pm, the ambulance came and got me in 10 minutes, and I was rushed to the hospital, an orthopedic surgeon was called in and operated on me from about midnight till 2am.(2 plates and 8 pins), 2 weeks in the hospital, 6 weeks of casts and post care. 2 years later hardware was removed. All covered.
No red tape, we have to produce our health card to show we are covered, ei a citizen, and we're good to go. Px's are not covered, nor eyeglasses, physiotherapy etc, but anything in a hospital is.
third, there is private insurance available I think, and for sure private clinics for the rich and famous to get immediate service, but it's rare.
Doctors bill the government for their services and are paid a stipulated rate for each proceedure, and are free to work as much or little as they want. There is a salary cap however to prevent fraud which was raised a few years ago 40% to stop Canadian schooled doctors from defecting to the big money of your country.

Thank you! Just what I wanted to know.

[lander]

Originally Posted by Craig

Again, I don't see how you can call it a conservative approach when the government TELLS you what to buy, who you'll buy it from, and how much you'll pay for it.

Here's the funny part...even if what he was saying were true (which it isn't since the libfuktards took a good idea and bastardized it as usual)...look at how the majority of Americans despise it as passed (by the liberal fuktards). So you think the libfuktards can put forward something that will be even more socialist than Obamacare and the Americans will accept it?



Fuk 'em, all the way to the slow death they deserve (waiting for socialist healthcare that is! )

[Olustee bus]

I hope to take the time to read this whole thread as I see some very good comments.

All I will say at this time relates to two issues:

Someone will pay for healthcare in the country. I know, Duh. At this time the ones who pay the vast majority is government (Medicare, Medicaid and others) who pay just about just about the cost to provide that care.

Then you got those who have health insurance. They are paying out the nose for healthcare.

In my mind, that is not right. We have to spread the costs to more people. And, most importantly, those who refuse to get coverage, must be made to do so in some manner.

The second issue is rising cost.

We demand excellent care and the best technology. Excellent care comes in large part to well paid folks providing it.

Secondly, research and technology continues and will continue to cause costs to go out the roof. I don't think we want to stop that. Overall, that money spent most likely will reduce the cost of care.

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by Olustee bus

I hope to take the time to read this whole thread as I see some very good comments.

All I will say at this time relates to two issues:

Someone will pay for healthcare in the country. I know, Duh. At this time the ones who pay the vast majority is government (Medicare, Medicaid and others) who pay just about just about the cost to provide that care.

Then you got those who have health insurance. They are paying out the nose for healthcare.

In my mind, that is not right. We have to spread the costs to more people. And, most importantly, those who refuse to get coverage, must be made to do so in some manner.

The second issue is rising cost.

We demand excellent care and the best technology. Excellent care comes in large part to well paid folks providing it.

Secondly, research and technology continues and will continue to cause costs to go out the roof. I don't think we want to stop that. Overall, that money spent most likely will reduce the cost of care.

My only small critique is that young, healthy people who as counted as uninsured do it by choice because in all probability they don't need health insurance.

And, although this may just be semantics, nothing will ever "reduce the cost of [health] care". We may change who pays the cost of health care, but the cost itself won't go down.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

My only small critique is that young, healthy people who as counted as uninsured do it by choice because in all probability they don't need health insurance.

And, although this may just be semantics, nothing will ever "reduce the cost of [health] care". We may change who pays the cost of health care, but the cost itself won't go down.

I disagree.

In the article I posted and by looking at how HC costs went DOWN in Singapore adopting the same program it can be done.

Also look at comparisons to HC cost covered by Health insurance and costs for elective surgery like cosmetic surgery or Lasik. The two later ones have had costs go down over time due to the competition in the market.Since the advent of Medic aide, Medicare and company financed Health insurance HC costs have risen faster than inflation.

Our current system of having HC costs covered by Other peoples money via Government programs to Health insurance is a major factor in price increases.

Putting the HC user in the loop of shopping for the best deal will and has proven to drive costs down while improving the quality of Service.

[Olustee bus]

I agree the the costs will not be reduced.

As far as the young doing without healthcare coverage, That in my opinion is one of the big problems. They do get sick or injured. Certainly not as much as older people of course but their healthcare is paid for by us who have insurance. Somehow, that needs changing.

I don't know how but it needs changing. I have considerred fines, tax approaches and other things.

Maybe we should just tax lawyers as a group, cause they cause so much problems for the system. What say yee?

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by Olustee bus

I agree the the costs will not be reduced.

As far as the young doing without healthcare coverage, That in my opinion is one of the big problems. They do get sick or injured. Certainly not as much as older people of course but their healthcare is paid for by us who have insurance. Somehow, that needs changing.

I don't know how but it needs changing. I have considerred fines, tax approaches and other things.

Maybe we should just tax lawyers as a group, cause they cause so much problems for the system. What say yee?

If you tax me even more, I'll have to go into deficet spending. On the other hand, it works for Government....

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by VITE1

I disagree.

In the article I posted and by looking at how HC costs went DOWN in Singapore adopting the same program it can be done.

Also look at comparisons to HC cost covered by Health insurance and costs for elective surgery like cosmetic surgery or Lasik. The two later ones have had costs go down over time due to the competition in the market.Since the advent of Medic aide, Medicare and company financed Health insurance HC costs have risen faster than inflation.

Our current system of having HC costs covered by Other peoples money via Government programs to Health insurance is a major factor in price increases.

Putting the HC user in the loop of shopping for the best deal will and has proven to drive costs down while improving the quality of Service.

I agree that competition has forced some costs to go down, as has some costs due to more sales, like DVD players did. I'll read about the Singapore program.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

Republicans have said that they want to dump the whole law and do something about health care in increments. I don't want to get into politics in this thread (so please don't) because it's not about politics.

Originally Posted by lspencer534

Thanks for your input. I knew that we'd have some politics sneak into this thread, but dayum! Joecoool just couldn't resist trying to sell us some Obamaline for butt secks.

Your thread is about a political discussion. I like how you only call out my comments and ignore the baiting comments made by the other side.

Then you make the most damning political statement in the whole thread.

[Doug28450]

CVS Pharmacies have this idea.

Need treatments & list of costs | No appointments | Open 7 days | Insurance accepted | MinuteClinic

For minor ailments, it can be a useful tool. It avoids the high cost and wait time of a trip to the ER.

[Broken Wind]

Cash and carry. That will thin the herd. We all die at some point anyway. I do not feel entitled to a long life by virtue of my citizenship. Let old and infirm people die like they do in Europe.

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Your thread is about a political discussion. I like how you only call out my comments and ignore the baiting comments made by the other side.

Then you make the most damning political statement in the whole thread.

You misquoted me: I called you JoeTooool.

[lander]

Originally Posted by Doug28450

CVS Pharmacies have this idea.

Need treatments & list of costs | No appointments | Open 7 days | Insurance accepted | MinuteClinic

For minor ailments, it can be a useful tool. It avoids the high cost and wait time of a trip to the ER.

We started going to the MinuteClinic a year or so ago. It's great...$69 and the cost of the Rx and you're all done. No government intrusion, nobody else stuck paying for my healthcare.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by Olustee bus

I hope to take the time to read this whole thread as I see some very good comments.

All I will say at this time relates to two issues:

Someone will pay for healthcare in the country. I know, Duh. At this time the ones who pay the vast majority is government (Medicare, Medicaid and others) who pay just about just about the cost to provide that care.

Then you got those who have health insurance. They are paying out the nose for healthcare.

In my mind, that is not right. We have to spread the costs to more people. And, most importantly, those who refuse to get coverage, must be made to do so in some manner.

The second issue is rising cost.

We demand excellent care and the best technology. Excellent care comes in large part to well paid folks providing it.

Secondly, research and technology continues and will continue to cause costs to go out the roof. I don't think we want to stop that. Overall, that money spent most likely will reduce the cost of care.

Thats pretty much what passed.