The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by lrobe22

I do

As do I.

As does damn near everybody else who lives outside of a major metro area.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by lrobe22

I do

Driving through snow and mud is not my kind of thing..
A few years back, I drove from Minnesota to Chicago (through Wisconsin) during a Blizzard in January. I had a AWD Hyundai rental car and despite AWD, it was a challenge completing the trip. I was actually supposed to fly into Chicago for a Table Tennis Tournament but my flight was cancelled due to the incoming Blizzard. I was able to re-book my flight there to Minneapolis and took a one way rental car from Minneapolis to Chicago to make it to the tournament. It was snowing like crazy for most of the trip. A foot of fresh snow. It was crazy.. Slipping and sliding all over the road, even with AWD..
Only reason I drove was that I couldn't fly into Chicago as the airport shut down for the storm.

[Vandelay Industries]

Originally Posted by The_Dude

Thanks! Why didn't he just say that instead of writing a book? Being succinct > verbosity

cliffs?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Driving through snow and mud is not my kind of thing..
A few years back, I drove from Minnesota to Chicago during a Blizzard. I had a AWD Hyundai rental car and despite AWD, it was a challenge completing the trip. I was actually supposed to fly into Chicago for a Table Tennis Tournament but my flight was cancelled due to the incoming Blizzard. I was able to re-book my flight there to Minneapolis and took a one way rental car from Minneapolis to Chicago to make it to the tournament. It was snowing like crazy for most of the trip. A foot of fresh snow. It was crazy.. Slipping and sliding all over the road, even with AWD..

Oh look... another deflection to avoid the discussion at hand. Shocking.

Nobody is talking about blizzards (and certainly not mud). The discussion is about cold temperatures.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

As do I.

As does damn near everybody else who lives outside of a major metro area.

83% of US population lives in Metro areas. Things are different in the country.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Oh look... another deflection to avoid the discussion at hand. Shocking.

Nobody is talking about blizzards (and certainly not mud). The discussion is about cold temperatures.

My response was to the video that was posted. That video was clearly with plenty of snow on the road. Post 195

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You are so f**king full of shit.

Fully charged = bad
Empty = bad

So take your 158 miles and cut both ends for "average" people. Nobody with more than 2 functioning brain cells (which I acknowledge is a stretch for some) is going to take off in the morning on a freezing cold day on their 40 mile trip with 40 miles of range, so take off another day. You also forgot about that little problem of losing charge just by sitting there.

So no, it's not "enough for about 4 days of daily driving".

You don't lose more than like 1/2% of charge in a day unless you have SENTRY mode on. Neither fully charged nor empty is a problem. SITTING longer time at 100% or 0% is a problem. Getting to 0% or charging to 100% is no problem as long as the car won't sit at low or high charge. You can time your overnight charging to finish at the time you leave for work, so, even if you charge to 100%, you will drive the car immediately after getting to 100%. Same for low charge. Let's say you arrive at home at 1 or 0%. If you plug in immediately, no issue with the battery. 150 miles is plenty for a day of driving for most people. That's 75 miles commute.. Most people don't have a 75 mile commute.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

My response was to the video that was posted. That video was clearly with plenty of snow on the road. Post 195

The post was made with reference to the cold range, not the snow. The 158 mile range (you know, the point of the post) was temperature related.

You deflect immediately from that point (because it is not flattering to EVs) by talking about blizzards and a Hyundai.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

The post was made with reference to the cold range, not the snow. The 158 mile range (you know, the point of the post) was temperature related.

You deflect immediately from that point (because it is not flattering to EVs) by talking about blizzards and a Hyundai.

If you go on road trips in the cold, don't get an EV. It's that simple. Everyone should get what works for them. I'd bet that an EV will work for over 90% of the people who can charge at home. Those for whom it won't work, don't get an EV. Also, even if you go on cold weather road trips, most households have 2 cars or more. If one of them is EV and one is gas, take the gas car for the cold weather road trips. If you only have one car, don't get an EV. I have never said that EV's work for everyone but they work for most who can charge at home.
Nobody forces you to get an EV.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You don't lose more than like 1/2% of charge in a day unless you have SENTRY mode on. Neither fully charged nor empty is a problem. SITTING longer time at 100% or 0% is a problem. Getting to 0% or charging to 100% is no problem as long as the car won't sit at low or high charge. You can time your overnight charging to finish at the time you leave for work, so, even if you charge to 100%, you will drive the car immediately after getting to 100%. Same for low charge. Let's say you arrive at home at 1 or 0%. If you plug in immediately, no issue with the battery. 150 miles is plenty for a day of driving for most people. That's 75 miles commute.. Most people don't have a 75 mile commute.

Your math still sucks.

Nobody is leaving for a 40 mile commute (your number) on a freezing cold day with 40 miles of range remaining.

So even with absolutely everything else aside, no, it's not enough for 4 days of driving as you claimed.

On the other hand, I get 550-600 miles of range from the Escalade and about 425 from the S6 in daily use. Oddly enough, I don't ever have to worry about going too far and getting stranded on a freezing cold day.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Your math still sucks.

Nobody is leaving for a 40 mile commute (your number) on a freezing cold day with 40 miles of range remaining.

So even with absolutely everything else aside, no, it's not enough for 4 days of driving as you claimed.

On the other hand, I get 550-600 miles of range from the Escalade and about 425 from the S6 in daily use. Oddly enough, I don't ever have to worry about going too far and getting stranded on a freezing cold day.

You can charge every day to 100% if you want (warranty is NOT affected if you charge to 100% even though they recommend NOT to do that frequently)
There is no reason to just leave 40 miles of range in the car if you an charge at home. If you can't charge at home or work, I would recommend AGAINST getting an EV. There really is no reason NOT to charge every night while you sleep. I plug in my phone every night. Do you? So, what's the big deal doing the same to your car that you are doing with your phone?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If you go on road trips in the cold, don't get an EV. It's that simple.

Again with your strawman.

It's not "road trips in the cold", just like it's not "towing cross country" or any of the other exaggerations that you keep using. 158 miles (79 each way) is not a "road trip. Of course most people don't do it on a daily basis, but most people sure as shit do it at least occasionally.

EVs are good for people who live in a specific (warm) metro areas and never, ever, plan on using it to leave that area. That's the entire list of people for whom it "works". If that's you, great. That's not "90%".

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Again with your strawman.

It's not "road trips in the cold", just like it's not "towing cross country" or any of the other exaggerations that you keep using. 158 miles (79 each way) is not a "road trip. Of course most people don't do it on a daily basis, but most people sure as shit do it at least occasionally.

EVs are good for people who live in a specific (warm) metro areas and never, ever, plan on using it to leave that area. That's the entire list of people for whom it "works". If that's you, great. That's not "90%".

Again, the AVERAGE daily miles driven is 37 miles per day or 1124 miles per month. So, for the AVERAGE person, EV's would work fine, at least for their daily driving habit. Sure, you will have to charge more frequently in cold weather on road trips. Once the car is heated up, some cars like Teslas with heat pump only lose 24% of their range while other cars which do not have a heat pump will use much more range. I have to look up the article but they tested all EVs when it comes to cold weather range and most Teslas had a 24% loss, not 50%. While this means more frequent charging, it's not as bad as some people claim.

https://insideevs.com/news/696918/ev...s%20efficiency.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You can charge every day to 100% if you want (warranty is NOT affected if you charge to 100% even though they recommend NOT to do that frequently)
There is no reason to just leave 40 miles of range in the car if you an charge at home. If you can't charge at home or work, I would recommend AGAINST getting an EV. There really is no reason NOT to charge every night while you sleep. I plug in my phone every night. Do you? So, what's the big deal doing the same to your car that you are doing with your phone?

I did not know that. Seems odd.
Ford didn't tell me to not fill the fuel tank in my truck 100%.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

I did not know that. Seems odd.
Ford didn't tell me to not fill the fuel tank in my truck 100%.

They are ASKING you to do that, not forcing you to do that. I have 150k miles warranty on my battery and motors. Even if I charge to 100% every single day, the battery will still be covered for 8 years or 150k miles.
The difference may be that if I charge to 100% every day, I will be at 75 - 80% of the original range after 8 years/150k miles if I charge to 100% every day while I'd probably still get 90% of the original range if I would rarely charge to 100%. It just increases degradation.. Most of Tesla degradation happens in the first year (3 - 5% and then, it slows down to about 1/2% to 1% per year. If you take care of your battery, it's more like 1/2 % of range loss per year.. Not a whole lot, especially if you change cars every couple of years like I do.

[Unsuspicious]

Originally Posted by LATB

I did not know that. Seems odd.
Ford didn't tell me to not fill the fuel tank in my truck 100%.

Reduces your mpg carrying all that extra weight

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I plug in my phone every night. Do you? So, what's the big deal doing the same to your car that you are doing with your phone?

I have a wireless charger that I put it on at night. Plugging shit in and having cords everywhere annoys me, as would having to deal with unplugging the car every time I want to go somewhere, plugging it in every time I get back, having to deal with the cables, etc.

That is infinitely worse than having to stop once every couple of weeks for 5 minutes on the way to or from work.

The short version is that no matter how much you try to spin it, at this point in time, with current technology, there is nothing that is a regular part of a daily commute that an EV does better than an ICE vehicle. They don't tow better, they don't drive better, they don't do anything better. You justify the hassle of charging vs. getting gas... great.

An EV is a novelty. It's the cool (to some) gadget to play with. You justify the inconveniences and ignore the faults because you like it for whatever reasons. If that's what you want, go for it. To each his own, but to argue that they are better "for 90%" of "average people" as you keep trying to do, is absolutely absurd.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I have a wireless charger that I put it on at night. Plugging shit in and having cords everywhere annoys me, as would having to deal with unplugging the car every time I want to go somewhere, plugging it in every time I get back, having to deal with the cables, etc.

That is infinitely worse than having to stop once every couple of weeks for 5 minutes on the way to or from work.

The short version is that no matter how much you try to spin it, at this point in time, with current technology, there is nothing that is a regular part of a daily commute that an EV does better than an ICE vehicle. They don't tow better, they don't drive better, they don't do anything better. You justify the hassle of charging vs. getting gas... great.

An EV is a novelty. It's the cool (to some) gadget to play with. You justify the inconveniences and ignore the faults because you like it for whatever reasons. If that's what you want, go for it. To each his own, but to argue that they are better "for 90%" of "average people" as you keep trying to do, is absolutely absurd.

Again, your usage pattern is not typical or representative. Nobody forces you to get an EV. If they don't work for you, don't get one. We have EV's because they work perfectly for us. EV owner since 2019 and EV only household since 2020 and never had the need for a gas vehicle in the last 4 years.

I may get a gas vehicle as a weekend/fun car in the future but not a daily driver.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Again, the AVERAGE daily miles driven is 37 miles per day or 1124 miles per month. So, for the AVERAGE person, EV's would work fine, at least for their daily driving habit. Sure, you will have to charge more frequently in cold weather on road trips. Once the car is heated up, some cars like Teslas with heat pump only lose 24% of their range while other cars which do not have a heat pump will use much more range. I have to look up the article but they tested all EVs when it comes to cold weather range and most Teslas had a 24% loss, not 50%. While this means more frequent charging, it's not as bad as some people claim.

https://insideevs.com/news/696918/ev...s%20efficiency.

This is just another way of saying what I have been saying (and at least several others) all along: EVs are fine for driving around town, and most other daily driving tasks, but are not suitable for most people as their family's only vehicle because of major drawbacks associated with things like road tripping and towing.

Like I have said a dozen or more times, my wife wants an EV, and I will likely buy her one this year. BUT, I will not be letting go of my Explorer because the EV is not suitable for a lot of the stuff we do. Contrary to your and Phred's beliefs, this is NOT a dig at EVs, simply a statement of the reality of how a huge percentage of the US public uses their vehicles, and the current state of EV technology.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Again, your usage pattern is not typical or representative. Nobody forces you to get an EV. If they don't work for you, don't get one. We have EV's because they work perfectly for us. EV owner since 2019 and EV only household since 2020 and never had the need for a gas vehicle in the last 4 years.

Will driving an EV, or telsa, help me to pick up more smokin' hot babes, asking for a friend, actually I have no friends.