We know that Zimmerman called him a "F*cking *oon"

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by themonk

Did Zimmerman even mention to the kid that he had a gun, of course not.

That's gun handling 101..you don't tell somebody you have a gun or point it at them until you intend to use it.

[Fasglas]

Originally Posted by Mike Mercury

wanna bet ?

Any civil suit won; will be overturned... and then a new suit filed... for it to be also overturned; until the lawyers see there's no money in it. Then the civil suits will vanish.

Correct, and speaking of CIVIL suits, perhaps Rev. Al should be reminded of what he STILL owes Steve Pagonis, and why it's owed...

[Datawiz]

Thanks for update. Just finished a six hour interview. At airport.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by onedef92

It's damn hard to know the "facts" as they seem to change daily.

Reckon this'll be the new trial of the century?

No 'bout adoubt it.

The media feeds on drama and this is already like the OJ deal.

[themonk]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

That's gun handling 101..you don't tell somebody you have a gun or point it at them until you intend to use it.

Or to possibly avoid a deadly confrontation you announce that you have a gun and or point the gun at the victim at which point you still feel your life is in danger you use deadly force (at least that's how it should've went down in this case). Dude just wanted to kill someone plain and simple, nothing more nothing less, he was playing "cop" and found the first excuse he could to off another human being.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

Yeah an 18 y/o punk, jumped an older fatter guy? Sure, it happens all the time.

Not to mention the injuries incurred by Zimmermann are consistent with his story.
No where does the law say you have to match force, or even fear for your life, only that you're entitled to defend yourself.

100% fact.

Nobody has to take an ass-whipping, esp if you don't know if will stop there.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by themonk

Or to possibly avoid a deadly confrontation you announce that you have a gun and or point the gun at the victim at which point you still feel your life is in danger you use deadly force (at least that's how it should've went down in this case). Dude just wanted to kill someone plain and simple, nothing more nothing less, he was playing "cop" and found the first excuse he could to off another human being.

Absolutely not!

No way should he have announced he had a gun just to give Treyvon a chance to get it from him.

In no case should he have pointed a loaded gun at somebody as a warning.

Godforbid the gun accidentally go off,while just flashing it as a warning.

Again that's just gun handling 101.

And that last part is your pure conjecture, you've convicted this guy long before all the evidence has been provided to you.

[theanswriz42]

Originally Posted by themonk

Or to possibly avoid a deadly confrontation you announce that you have a gun and or point the gun at the victim at which point you still feel your life is in danger you use deadly force (at least that's how it should've went down in this case). Dude just wanted to kill someone plain and simple, nothing more nothing less, he was playing "cop" and found the first excuse he could to off another human being.

That's not the best advice. Then you run the potential of someone trying to grab your gun. If someone jumps me, I'm not asking questions and furthermore, I don't think you'd be thinking as rationally as you would when you're in the comfort of your own home.

[Mike Mercury]

Originally Posted by themonk

He's 250 lbs, Martin was 140 soaking wet, there were no weapons found anywhere near Martin, where is it justified to use lethal force? The guy had 110 lbs on the kid

Am I mis-reading you here?? or are you trying to say that -weeks later- the info now known should of been realized that evening as the guard was knocked down... with a thug on top wailing on him, in the dark; while raining?

You're asking for that Dick Tracy watch - where you can push a button and "hold everything" and take awhile to sort things out; and then resume from there. It hasn't been invented yet.

I'm certainly not going to wait to feel a gun shot wound & see my blood pouring out... before taking measures to save my - or my wifes- own life from an attack.

Arm-chair-quarterbacking, weeks after the game is played, is silliness.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by themonk

Or to possibly avoid a deadly confrontation you announce that you have a gun and or point the gun at the victim at which point you still feel your life is in danger you use deadly force (at least that's how it should've went down in this case).

Ummmmmm.... no.

[Sea Six]

Originally Posted by themonk

Or to possibly avoid a deadly confrontation you announce that you have a gun and or point the gun at the victim at which point you still feel your life is in danger you use deadly force (at least that's how it should've went down in this case). Dude just wanted to kill someone plain and simple, nothing more nothing less, he was playing "cop" and found the first excuse he could to off another human being.

Obviously, Monk's from Canada, where they don't allow their citizens to carry guns for self defense.

He's never been trained on the proper use of a carry weapon. I guess his reasoning on how to use a gun for self defense comes from his own musings and from the movies.

Don't even THINK about following this advice.

[pappytinker]

Originally Posted by Mike Mercury

I guess this will shut the mouths of Jackson, Sharpton, Black Panthers, and those still stuck in a cult.

There you go dreaming again.

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by Sea Six

Obviously, Monk's from Canada, where they don't allow their citizens to carry guns for self defense.

He's never been trained on the proper use of a carry weapon. I guess his reasoning on how to use a gun for self defense comes from his own musings and from the movies.

Don't even THINK about following this advice.

[Vette Jockey]

Originally Posted by themonk

He's 250 lbs, Martin was 140 soaking wet, there were no weapons found anywhere near Martin, where is it justified to use lethal force? The guy had 110 lbs on the kid who didn't have any form of combat/martial arts training, are you saying that Zimmerman got his ass handed to him by a 18 yo skinny kid and was in fear of his life?

Your observations have been formed by Hollywierd and not real life.

How does a 70# dog take down a 250# man? It is not the size of the dog; it is the size of the bite, or the viciousness of the attack. Caught off guard, most untrained people do not react fast enough to prevent, let alone stop an attack, and are always behind the curve. Those that are trained often have embarrassing moments at social occasions.

You are also not taking into account how vulnerable to injury the back of the head is. One rock in the wrong place could have left him a paraplegic in another place dead.

The simple acronym for use of force is AOJ. The suspect has to have the Ability to put the victim at risk. The suspect has to have the Opportunity to injure the victim. The suspect has to put the victim in Jeopardy.

If an LEO had happened on the scene and seen someone bashing someone’s head into the ground, they would have been justified in using force to prevent or stop the attack. If they thought the attack could end in death or serious injury, lethal force may be used.

The facts of the case may not be fully known, but the above facts on use of force, though simplified, are.

[RedLS1GTO]

On a side note... I saw this today from the Orlando Sentinel.

A Sanford police incident report says Trayvon was 6 feet tall and weighed 160 pounds. A spokesman for the family's lawyers gave a slightly different set of numbers: 6 feet 1 and 150 pounds. Zimmerman is 5 feet 9 inches tall, according to the police report, but it is silent about his weight. A family member says he currently weighs about 190 pounds.

Look at the pictures. If he is 5'9 there is no way he weighs 250lbs.



Of course it sounds a whole lot better if ignore things like facts.

[Mike Mercury]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Of course it sounds a whole lot better if ignore things like facts.

[C5Nate]

Originally Posted by themonk

Or to possibly avoid a deadly confrontation you announce that you have a gun and or point the gun at the victim at which point you still feel your life is in danger you use deadly force (at least that's how it should've went down in this case). Dude just wanted to kill someone plain and simple, nothing more nothing less, he was playing "cop" and found the first excuse he could to off another human being.

Have you even read any of the ACTUAL reports on the incident or are you just following the lead of Jackson and Sharpton?


The 911 tapes reports said Zimmerman followed Martin briefly to see where he was going. The 911 operator, (not a police office, a 911 operator advised him to not follow). While returning to his truck he was attacked by Martin.

If I have a gun and am attacked, I'm not going to try to see if I can out fight the guy, the gun is coming out and it will be used to kill.

[Blue 92]

Ah.

The old "Show them the handle" school of self defense.

If that actually worked we could all just carry wooden handles.

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by themonk

Or to possibly avoid a deadly confrontation you announce that you have a gun and or point the gun at the victim at which point you still feel your life is in danger you use deadly force (at least that's how it should've went down in this case). Dude just wanted to kill someone plain and simple, nothing more nothing less, he was playing "cop" and found the first excuse he could to off another human being.

Mr monk,

With all due respect, you have zero idea what you are talking about. You NEVER draw a weapon unless your life is in immenent danger. And if your life is in danger, you pull the gun and shoot to kill.

If the gun comes out, someone is getting shot. Those of us who are properly trained know this. We are also trained to avoid situations where this scenario is likely. However, if it happens, it is better to be judged by 12 than to be buried by 6.

[themonk]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

Absolutely not!

No way should he have announced he had a gun just to give Treyvon a chance to get it from him.

In no case should he have pointed a loaded gun at somebody as a warning.

Godforbid the gun accidentally go off,while just flashing it as a warning.

Again that's just gun handling 101.

And that last part is your pure conjecture, you've convicted this guy long before all the evidence has been provided to you.

I don't understand how you seem to think that this 140lb kid could over take a 250lb man, I really fail to see that.

Originally Posted by Thrakk

Mr monk,

With all due respect, you have zero idea what you are talking about. You NEVER draw a weapon unless your life is in immenent danger. And if your life is in danger, you pull the gun and shoot to kill.

If the gun comes out, someone is getting shot. Those of us who are properly trained know this. We are also trained to avoid situations where this scenario is likely. However, if it happens, it is better to be judged by 12 than to be buried by 6.

With all due respect to you too sir, please read my above statement.