Choose your color scheme:
The Vette Barn  
 
Go Back   The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Politics & Religion

Politics & Religion Discussion of politics and religion

User Tag List

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-11-2012, 11:49am   #61
kylebuck
Barn Stall Owner #47
Barn Raising I,II
Points: 52,192, Level: 100
Activity: 4.0%
 
kylebuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,280
Thanks: 2,053
Thanked 2,909 Times in 1,409 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1098639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Business & Technology | BMW finds skilled workers for less at S.C. plant | Seattle Times Newspaper

The upside is you have a job, the downside is you fall out of the middle class.

And keep in mind that the ONLY reason the plants are not unionized is because they pay the workers more than they otherwise would to keep the union out. If the union disappeared tomorrow, only a fool wouldn't believe the wages at these plants wouldn't drop.

Race to the bottom!
Then they should have invested in human capital. Its not my fault that they are marginally skilled workers and their job is to bolt an automobile together.Its not Rocket surgery and thus should not be paid like one.
kylebuck is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kylebuck For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2012, 11:55am   #62
Loco Vette
Barn Stall Owner #54
Barn Raising II,III

Bantayan Kids '13,'17
Points: 39,510, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Loco Vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 15,673
Thanks: 9,676
Thanked 6,904 Times in 2,607 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $6027980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Business & Technology | BMW finds skilled workers for less at S.C. plant | Seattle Times Newspaper

The upside is you have a job, the downside is you fall out of the middle class.

And keep in mind that the ONLY reason the plants are not unionized is because they pay the workers more than they otherwise would to keep the union out. If the union disappeared tomorrow, only a fool wouldn't believe the wages at these plants wouldn't drop.

Race to the bottom!
No, the ONLY reason the plants are not unionized is because the workers do not beleive that voting in a union and paying the associated dues will work to improve their working conditions more than the cost and PITA factor of having a union in house.

You cannot eliminate competition. If you start paying workers more than they produce, then the business closes. If you start paying workers more than others would be willing to do the same job for, then your product cost is higher and you lose business to the competition or you use the lower cost workers.

As far as your citation, it states that workers in Germany make the equivalent of $66.xx in slary and benefits while the USA workers make $33.xx in salary and benefits. So where does the $70.xx/hour that was touted so often during the bailout debates come into play?

Auto Worker Salaries

It factors in the cost of the pensions and benefits for retired workers extorted out of the Big Three by the unions. These are real costs, and the costs of those pensions (if they don't manage to bankrupt the whole industry) will ultimately benefit the current workers too.

Of course, Obama's bailout left these pensions intact while screwing over the stock and bondholders, but that's another discussion for another day.
Loco Vette is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Loco Vette For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2012, 11:56am   #63
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joebuck View Post
Then they should have invested in human capital. Its not my fault that they are marginally skilled workers and their job is to bolt an automobile together. Its not Rocket surgery and thus should not be paid like one.
Actually, had you read the other articles I posted in this thread, you would have seen many people with degrees - like you are trying to get - end up working at these plants because they can't get hired in their area of expertise.

Although it appears it doesn't take "rocket surgery" to get a degree either.

You may very well find yourself in their position one day. There is a proverb about walking a mile in a man's shoes. Hope you never have to walk in one of these guys shoes.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 12:01pm   #64
kylebuck
Barn Stall Owner #47
Barn Raising I,II
Points: 52,192, Level: 100
Activity: 4.0%
 
kylebuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,280
Thanks: 2,053
Thanked 2,909 Times in 1,409 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1098639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Actually, had you read the other articles I posted in this thread, you would have seen many people with degrees - like you are trying to get - end up working at these plants because they can't get hired in their area of expertise.

Although it appears it doesn't take "rocket surgery" to get a degree either.

You may very well find yourself in their position one day. There is a proverb about walking a mile in a man's shoes. Hope you never have to walk in one of these guys shoes.
I have invested a lot of time in my own human capital. In this right to work state of Louisiana , I have welded in ship yards, mowed grass, and I am currently employed at a retail job. So as far as working this shit jobs that dont pay money, I make less than 30k a year at my current job. Gasp. They actually make more money than I do.
Also in my original post where did I ever mention a degree? I said Human capital. Which is any type of knowledge that makes a person more valuable than someone else in a skilled position. These people may have degrees in political science and general studies. Congrats worthless degrees. So dont get a degree that is not useful in the real world.
kylebuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 12:15pm   #65
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
No, the ONLY reason the plants are not unionized is because the workers do not beleive that voting in a union and paying the associated dues will work to improve their working conditions more than the cost and PITA factor of having a union in house.
That is a gross oversimplification of the situation. The workers at those plants have spoken with management and have on occasion gotten increased pay / benefits just with the threat of unionizing. They are in essence getting the benefits of being in a union without union membership.

Quote:
You cannot eliminate competition. If you start paying workers more than they produce, then the business closes. If you start paying workers more than others would be willing to do the same job for, then your product cost is higher and you lose business to the competition or you use the lower cost workers.
So by paying them less, they can sell their products for less than their American counterparts.

Yea! Everyone loses - except for the foreign company!

Race to the bottom!
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 12:17pm   #66
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joebuck View Post
I have invested a lot of time in my own human capital. In this right to work state of Louisiana , I have welded in ship yards, mowed grass, and I am currently employed at a retail job. So as far as working this shit jobs that dont pay money, I make less than 30k a year at my current job. Gasp. They actually make more money than I do.
Also in my original post where did I ever mention a degree? I said Human capital. Which is any type of knowledge that makes a person more valuable than someone else in a skilled position. These people may have degrees in political science and general studies. Congrats worthless degrees. So dont get a degree that is not useful in the real world.
There are people with degrees across the whole spectrum working in these plants.

And you are a single guy with few obligations. Try raising a family on $15 an hour. Good luck with that, see you in the food stamp line.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 12:26pm   #67
kylebuck
Barn Stall Owner #47
Barn Raising I,II
Points: 52,192, Level: 100
Activity: 4.0%
 
kylebuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,280
Thanks: 2,053
Thanked 2,909 Times in 1,409 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1098639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
There are people with degrees across the whole spectrum working in these plants.

And you are a single guy with few obligations. Try raising a family on $15 an hour. Good luck with that, see you in the food stamp line.
Dont get butt hurt and say im going to be in the foodstamp line.

Can you name said degrees that are working in the plants?
kylebuck is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kylebuck For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2012, 1:01pm   #68
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joebuck View Post
Dont get butt hurt and say im going to be in the foodstamp line.

Can you name said degrees that are working in the plants?
If you don't have time to read the article, I don't have time to summarize it for you.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 1:25pm   #69
mrvette
Latin American Goat Roper
Barn Stall Owner #101
Bantayan Kids '13
Points: 132,350, Level: 100
Activity: 10.8%
 
mrvette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange Park Florida
Posts: 60,581
Thanks: 32,797
Thanked 11,529 Times in 5,686 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1138393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
There are people with degrees across the whole spectrum working in these plants.

And you are a single guy with few obligations. Try raising a family on $15 an hour. Good luck with that, see you in the food stamp line.
AND SO, WHO would hire him IF he has a useless degree???

no one productive, in fact.....just some .gov agency that only the payroll dept knows he is there, in some corner office.....




Joebuck is correct, Phil, you are rong as usual.....


I went back and read a few posts.....
mrvette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 1:29pm   #70
Loco Vette
Barn Stall Owner #54
Barn Raising II,III

Bantayan Kids '13,'17
Points: 39,510, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Loco Vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 15,673
Thanks: 9,676
Thanked 6,904 Times in 2,607 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $6027980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
That is a gross oversimplification of the situation. The workers at those plants have spoken with management and have on occasion gotten increased pay / benefits just with the threat of unionizing. They are in essence getting the benefits of being in a union without union membership.

So by paying them less, they can sell their products for less than their American counterparts.

Yea! Everyone loses - except for the foreign company!

Race to the bottom!
National Labor Relations Act

Notice of their rights has to be posted in their place to work.

If they want to organize, they can do it. Paying off some upper level union boss to "represent" them is clearly not in their best interests as judged by them.

And as you assessed Mr. Thrakk recently, if you say you are privy to labor negotiations at BMW, then I say you are full of shit.

Last edited by Loco Vette; 12-11-2012 at 1:41pm.
Loco Vette is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Loco Vette For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2012, 1:32pm   #71
Loco Vette
Barn Stall Owner #54
Barn Raising II,III

Bantayan Kids '13,'17
Points: 39,510, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Loco Vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 15,673
Thanks: 9,676
Thanked 6,904 Times in 2,607 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $6027980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
So by paying them less, they can sell their products for less than their American counterparts.
Exactly. People tend to choose the item that gives them the best value for the money. When you bought your new boat you chose the smaller and less expensive motor because you didn't need the extra HP and the increased costs of capital and fuel did not justify the expenditure to you.
Quote:
Race to the bottom!
See, repetition does not lend legitimacy to the ludicrous, no matter how often it is employed.
Loco Vette is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 3:32pm   #72
RedLS1GTO
C4 Mod
Barn Raising II,III
Points: 58,700, Level: 100
Activity: 86.3%
 
RedLS1GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH ....ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑBE....
Posts: 13,727
Thanks: 1,297
Thanked 7,703 Times in 3,418 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $19752494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
That is a gross oversimplification of the situation.
This from the guy who just said the only difference between the pay of German workers and their American counterparts was the union and the only factor influencing income from State to State was whether they are right-to-work or not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by joebuck View Post
Its not my fault that they are marginally skilled workers and their job is to bolt an automobile together.Its not Rocket surgery and thus should not be paid like one.
Ahhhhhh.... common sense. Unfortunately, that is way too complicated for some. The skillset and actual value add to the company is completely irrelevant to how much a worker makes in the socialist world of people like coool. He won't be happy unless the janitor makes the same as the CEO. Then he can go hug a unicorn and rejoice that the world is finally "fair" for all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
And you are a single guy with few obligations. Try raising a family on $15 an hour. Good luck with that, see you in the food stamp line.
Or, there's always option B. I know it sounds a little far fetched, but you could always have some level of personal responsibility, invest in yourself like Joey is doing and put yourself in a position to support your family before you go popping out kids. Crazy, right?

Lucky for those who fail to grasp even the most basic tenants of personal responsibility, there are plenty of self righteous dipshits with demented Robin Hood complexes who are more than willing to hand them a check (other people's money of course).
RedLS1GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RedLS1GTO For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2012, 3:55pm   #73
VITE1
Barn Stall Owner #69
Bantayan Kids '14,'15,'17
GTMS ‘18
Points: 62,120, Level: 100
Activity: 3.2%
 
VITE1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Port Saint Lucie FL
Posts: 43,822
Thanks: 25,657
Thanked 12,524 Times in 5,847 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1084134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
There are people with degrees across the whole spectrum working in these plants.

And you are a single guy with few obligations. Try raising a family on $15 an hour. Good luck with that, see you in the food stamp line.
Then DON"T have a family if you cannot afford them.

Simple concept.
VITE1 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to VITE1 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2012, 4:04pm   #74
RedLS1GTO
C4 Mod
Barn Raising II,III
Points: 58,700, Level: 100
Activity: 86.3%
 
RedLS1GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH ....ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑBE....
Posts: 13,727
Thanks: 1,297
Thanked 7,703 Times in 3,418 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $19752494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette
As far as your citation, it states that workers in Germany make the equivalent of $66.xx in slary and benefits while the USA workers make $33.xx in salary and benefits.
I'm curious as to what coool thinks the average salary of a US BMW worker SHOULD be.


$5 says it's a number that would put the plant in the red.
RedLS1GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 4:29pm   #75
Loco Vette
Barn Stall Owner #54
Barn Raising II,III

Bantayan Kids '13,'17
Points: 39,510, Level: 100
Activity: 5.8%
 
Loco Vette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 15,673
Thanks: 9,676
Thanked 6,904 Times in 2,607 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $6027980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
And you are a single guy with few obligations. Try raising a family on $15 an hour. Good luck with that, see you in the food stamp line.
Guess what! I am a skilled professional with a background that is hard to acquire as well as expensive. I am not turning the same wrench for 30 years and demanding that my employer comensate me for what I feel like I need instead of what I produce.

When you start compensating people on what they "need" or "deserve" then you generate the dependent titsucking society that lives only to reproduce.

Needs are easy to generate. Skills are not, thats why they are valuable.
Loco Vette is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Loco Vette For This Useful Post:
Old 12-11-2012, 5:39pm   #76
kylebuck
Barn Stall Owner #47
Barn Raising I,II
Points: 52,192, Level: 100
Activity: 4.0%
 
kylebuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,280
Thanks: 2,053
Thanked 2,909 Times in 1,409 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1098639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VITE1 View Post
Then DON"T have a family if you cannot afford them.

Simple concept.
If I were to have a family suddenly. Things would change and I would provide for them not have food stamps. I would go without
kylebuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 6:23pm   #77
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
National Labor Relations Act

Notice of their rights has to be posted in their place to work.

If they want to organize, they can do it. Paying off some upper level union boss to "represent" them is clearly not in their best interests as judged by them.

And as you assessed Mr. Thrakk recently, if you say you are privy to labor negotiations at BMW, then I say you are full of shit.
Oh, but I can back up what I said.

Nissan Workers Move to Unionize | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS

Workers at Cottondale plant vote to unionize | TuscaloosaNews.com

UAW Trying to Unionize Workers at Nissan Plants in Tennessee, Mississippi - WOT on Motor Trend

UAW Refocusing its Organization Drive at German Automakers in U.S. - WOT on Motor Trend

The unions go in, and then the management has meetings with all employees against joining the union and offers deals to their workers to keep them from voting for the union.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 6:24pm   #78
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
Exactly. People tend to choose the item that gives them the best value for the money. When you bought your new boat you chose the smaller and less expensive motor because you didn't need the extra HP and the increased costs of capital and fuel did not justify the expenditure to you.

See, repetition does not lend legitimacy to the ludicrous, no matter how often it is employed.
I bought the motor that came with the boat.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 6:25pm   #79
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VITE1 View Post
Then DON"T have a family if you cannot afford them.

Simple concept.
Keep abortion legal and planned parenthood funded. Another simple concept.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 6:28pm   #80
Joecooool
Barn Stall Owner #10
Points: 40,307, Level: 100
Activity: 0%
 
Joecooool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida Keys
Posts: 6,625
Thanks: 363
Thanked 1,765 Times in 758 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $8563902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
Guess what! I am a skilled professional with a background that is hard to acquire as well as expensive.
And you were fortunate to be born into a family that could afford to send you to school.

Quote:
I am not turning the same wrench for 30 years and demanding that my employer comensate me for what I feel like I need instead of what I produce.
And you were lucky to never have found yourself in that position.

Quote:
When you start compensating people on what they "need" or "deserve" then you generate the dependent titsucking society that lives only to reproduce.

Needs are easy to generate. Skills are not, thats why they are valuable.
People should be paid a fair livable wage for the job they do. Unions exist to make sure that happens. Pull them from the equation and its a race to the bottom.
Joecooool is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Politics & Religion


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:24pm.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 - 2024 The Vette Barn


Support the Barn:
 
Download the Mobile App;
 
Follow us on Facebook:

Become a Stall Owner

 

Apple iOS App        Google Android App

 

Visit our Facebook page