The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Corvettes get much higher mileage ON THE HIGHWAY but less in the city.
I wonder if anyone with a Vette will take a bet.. Let's meet up in Manhattan on a 95 degree summer day and fill up the car in the early morning and then drive around Manhattan with AC set to 68 degrees until you run out of fuel. If you get the advertised CITY mpg, I pay you $2000. I did own C3's, C4's, C5's and C6's... and none of them would get advertised city mpg if you are all day in city stop and go traffic with the AC on. Yes, on the highway, I could get 30 mpg but they sucked in the city.

I can easily outperform any vehicle's city MPG estimate by driving like an 80-year old.
I can also show you proof that I get less than 6 MPG on my current C7Z set-up on e85, and it does not affect my driving habits.

If you care about your MPG I would NEVER recommend a sports car, as even though it can deliver the stated MPG, the driving disciplines to achieve such are not why you buy a sports car.

Next we will talk about tire treadwear??
I have NEVER gotton close to 50% of the advertised treadwear, which does not bother me.

I bought my last five vehicles knowing that MPG, treadwear and maintenance costs were meant for others, not me, as was not a consideration for me.

Lastly, I would be much more concerned with coolant and oils temps while driving in city traffice, as paying for a little more gas is nothing compared to having an overheating event.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Corvettes get much higher mileage ON THE HIGHWAY but less in the city.
I wonder if anyone with a Vette will take a bet.. Let's meet up in Manhattan on a 95 degree summer day and fill up the car in the early morning and then drive around Manhattan with AC set to 68 degrees until you run out of fuel. If you get the advertised CITY mpg, I pay you $2000. I did own C3's, C4's, C5's and C6's... and none of them would get advertised city mpg if you are all day in city stop and go traffic with the AC on. Yes, on the highway, I could get 30 mpg but they sucked in the city.

Holy Hell you can be obtuse. EPA city ratings aren't based on driving around Manhattan on a 95 degree day with the AC at 68. That's not "city driving" for most people, nor is it what the EPA uses to determine city gas mileage. Quit making shit up. My average gas mileage in my C7 since I bought it 10 years ago is just under 30 mpg. That's combined city and highway driving.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Holy Hell you can be obtuse. EPA city ratings aren't based on driving around Manhattan on a 95 degree day with the AC at 68. That's not "city driving" for most people, nor is it what the EPA uses to determine city gas mileage. Quit making shit up. My average gas mileage in my C7 since I bought it 10 years ago is just under 30 mpg. That's combined city and highway driving.

I am going to need some driving lessons from you,,, GOOD JOB!!

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

I am going to need some driving lessons from you,,, GOOD JOB!!

LOL. Since the day I bought it new it's been in Sport mode and I use the paddle shifters, so it's never seen Eco mode or cylinder deactivation. Last time I looked the long term average mileage is ~28 mpg, but then I don't drive around Manhattan on 95 degree days with the AC on 68 either.

[Little Red L98.]

Wut I miss’d. Tesla makes a corvette now?

I have a pos c4 that basically only does “city driving”. AC don’t work. Gets about 14-16 mpg and I might be able to squeeze 28 on highway. But it’s old and tired. Can’t expect much more.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

LOL. Since the day I bought it new it's been in Sport mode and I use the paddle shifters, so it's never seen Eco mode or cylinder deactivation. Last time I looked the long term average mileage is ~28 mpg, but then I don't drive around Manhattan on 95 degree days with the AC on 68 either.

Stay out of that eco mode, mine was deleted when I rebuilt the engine.

I 'think' Ken Horse lost his engine on his first C7 when he dropped a valve while in eco mode,,, another problem to blame on those tree-hugging socialists.

[Little Red L98.]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

Stay out of that eco mode, mine was deleted when I rebuilt the engine.

I 'think' Ken Horse lost his engine on his first C7 when he dropped a valve while in eco mode,,, another problem to blame on those tree-hugging socialists.

Maybe I’m wrong but tree hugging socialists are what allow vettes, GT500s, Hellcats, etc. to even exist today.

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Little Red L98.

Maybe I’m wrong but tree hugging socialists are what allow vettes, GT500s, Hellcats, etc. to even exist today.

I was referencing the eco mode crap, which boost mpg, to help meet the cafe standard requirements.

[Little Red L98.]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

I was referencing the eco mode crap, which boost mpg, to help meet the cafe standard requirements.

Right. Tree hugging socialists did that, probably cafe standards too. They’d never make it to production without these features. Maybe. Probably. I don’t know. Who really cares. They exist.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

I can easily outperform any vehicle's city MPG estimate by driving like an 80-year old.
I can also show you proof that I get less than 6 MPG on my current C7Z set-up on e85, and it does not affect my driving habits.

If you care about your MPG I would NEVER recommend a sports car, as even though it can deliver the stated MPG, the driving disciplines to achieve such are not why you buy a sports car.

Next we will talk about tire treadwear??
I have NEVER gotton close to 50% of the advertised treadwear, which does not bother me.

I bought my last five vehicles knowing that MPG, treadwear and maintenance costs were meant for others, not me, as was not a consideration for me.

Lastly, I would be much more concerned with coolant and oils temps while driving in city traffice, as paying for a little more gas is nothing compared to having an overheating event.

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Holy Hell you can be obtuse. EPA city ratings aren't based on driving around Manhattan on a 95 degree day with the AC at 68. That's not "city driving" for most people, nor is it what the EPA uses to determine city gas mileage. Quit making shit up. My average gas mileage in my C7 since I bought it 10 years ago is just under 30 mpg. That's combined city and highway driving.

Just like EPA ratings are not based on driving in 95 degrees in Manhattan, they also aren't based on driving 85 mph on the highway. Highway speed in EPA cycles is at a maximum speed of 60 mph (see my link from the EPA page).
Again, car makers do NOT determine testing conditions. The EPA does. If you think that the EPA numbers are not in sync with reality, that has to be addressed with the EPA, not car makers. Car makers will rate their cars based on EPA guidlines. NOT IN ANY WAY a car makers fault.

If you drive more than EPA around town, gas cars will have worse efficiency. If you drive more than EPA on the highway, especially above EPA speed, EV's will have worse efficiency. That's all common sense based on EPA testing criteria. Again, it's not car makers who determine EPA standards.

I have no doubt that any newer Vette can get 30 mpg if you drive mostly highway. It's just like most EV's will get way above EPA if you only drive around town.

I remember when I had my C6, I got like 27 mpg between Miami and Clearwater.. Due to the overdrive on the 6th gear (6-speed), efficiency on the 6-speed Vettes was amazing on the highway.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Right, so you are going to be able to maintain 80 mph for 3 hours

Ever heard of cities??

I easily average well over 70mph on trips from Ohio to Daytona. Unless you are looking for places to charge, you don't generally have to actually drive through cities. You may be shocked to know that most cities actually have bypass routes for through traffic that generally move traffic very well. Unless of course your entire trip is tied to a meal schedule and stops every couple of hours, it's not hard at all to miss rush hours... which is the only time that you are actually going to see a significant slow down outside of a few of the major cities.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I mean, unless you drive through Nevada or Arizona, you will drive through a few larger cities if you drive all day and you won't be able to go anywhere close to 80 mph. So, realistically, if you go 80mph wherever you an, 250 miles will take closer to 4 hours on most major routes.

Really? You average 62mph on road trips?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

9 AM breakfast, 1 PM lunch, 5 pm dinner.. Works out great.

Man, you really suck at math.

You conveniently forgot to add in the time stopped to charge and eat your gas station or fast food "hot meal". If you really are driving 250 miles in 4 hours, it looks like this:

Leave at 5 AM
9 AM breakfast
Stop for an hour
2 PM lunch
Stop for an hour
7 PM dinner
11 PM - Finally get to your destination (where you have to charge again)

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Actually, EV's have their mpge also rated by city and highway. Range is rated based on 55% city and 45% highway driving. Car manufacturers have nothing to do with how the EPA rates those.
Anyways, a C7 Vette is rated 17 mpg in the city. I will bet you $$$ that if you drive a C7 in summer around Manhattan all day long with AC set below 70 degrees until you run out of gas, you won't get anywhere close to 17 mpg.
So, complaining that an EV gets less range on the Highway than advertised is like complaining that gas cars don't get their advertised mpg/range in the city. Again, EPA does their rating based on 55% city and that's not car maker's fault that it's rated that way. BTW, their "HIGHWAY" cycle does not exceed 60 mph.. Also not car makers fault that the EPA rates that way.

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/...kPage=x&ZyPURL

Yes. Because driving around Manhattan for an entire day is definitely something that most people do.

MPG is absolutely irrelevant. City MPG is irrelevant. Nobody spends all day driving around in a city. If you for some reason did, fun fact, it takes about 5 minutes to fill up with gas and go again. That's the point you keep managing to miss. Nobody cares outside of the penny pinchers. What matters is RANGE.

My Escalade will EASILY go 600++ miles on a highway trip. My S6 will EASILY go 450+ on any highway trip. I have gone over 500 at 80mph on flatter ground. The big dually will easily go 650 and can hit 700+ on a tank if you're on flat ground.

But yea, you go ahead and enjoy sitting in the parking lot eating that Taco Bell for dinner before your last 4 hour stint. If I decided to leave at 5 in the morning, I'll already be at my destination with a drink and a nice steak for dinner.

Which brings us to another topic. Which is more dangerous: Driving for 6 hours during the day between stops or leaving early in the morning, spending all day on the road, and driving well into the night because you had to stop and charge repeatedly.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I easily average well over 70mph on trips from Ohio to Daytona. Unless you are looking for places to charge, you don't generally have to actually drive through cities. You may be shocked to know that most cities actually have bypass routes for through traffic that generally move traffic very well. Unless of course your entire trip is tied to a meal schedule and stops every couple of hours, it's not hard at all to miss rush hours... which is the only time that you are actually going to see a significant slow down outside of a few of the major cities.



Really? You average 62mph on road trips?



Man, you really suck at math.

You forgot to add in the time to charge and eat your gas station or fast food "hot meal". If you really are driving 250 miles in 4 hours, it looks like this:

Leave at 5 AM
9 AM breakfast
Charge for an hour
2 PM lunch
Charge for an hour
7 PM dinner
11 PM - Finally get to your destination (where you have to charge again)

EVEN at 70 mph average, it's 3.5 hours and not 3 hours. What speed I average really depends on traffic. I have done the trip between Lakeland/FL and Houston/TX many times and travel time has varied greatly depending on time of day, time of year etc. One year, we hit bad traffic in several locations, Pensacola, near Gulfport, MS, Baton Rouge and other times, we only hit bad traffic once. My travel time for 992 miles last time was 17 hours and that included 2 hours and 1 minute charging. So, 15 hours of driving and I set autopilot 10 mph above the limit (most of the trip, limit was 70 mph), so we averaged 66 mph moving speed. There was an additional non charging stop for Chick Fil-A which added about 10 - 15 minutes to the trip time but it would have had no significant impact on average speed.. Maybe I would have averaged 67 mph without that extra stop. Eating is not in ADDITION to the charging time. It is DURING charging. We pick and choose the chargers where we have food options we like. Charging is NEVER 1 hour. It's 45 mins from 3% to 98%. The last 2% would be an additional 10 mins or so, so it's not worth charging to 100%. Up to 98%, it's pretty decent speed.
Those who have more frequent charging stops usually charge like 25 mins from 5 to 80%. I prefer less stops as we don't have to eat in a hurry with that travel style and we avoid non food stops.

[sublime1996525]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Right, so you are going to be able to maintain 80 mph for 3 hours
Ever heard of cities?? I mean, unless you drive through Nevada or Arizona, you will drive through a few larger cities if you drive all day and you won't be able to go anywhere close to 80 mph. So, realistically, if you go 80mph wherever you an, 250 miles will take closer to 4 hours on most major routes.
9 AM breakfast, 1 PM lunch, 5 pm dinner.. Works out great.

I average 80 mph any time I take a road trip. That’s the speed limit for a large chunk.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Yes. Because driving around Manhattan for an entire day is definitely something that most people do.

MPG is absolutely irrelevant. City MPG is irrelevant. Nobody spends all day driving around in a city. If you for some reason did, fun fact, it takes about 5 minutes to fill up with gas and go again. That's the point you keep managing to miss. Nobody cares outside of the penny pinchers. What matters is RANGE.

My Escalade will EASILY go 600++ miles on a highway trip. My S6 will EASILY go 450+ on any highway trip. I have gone over 500 at 80mph on flatter ground. The big dually will easily go 650 and can hit 700+ on a tank if you're on flat ground.

But yea, you go ahead and enjoy sitting in the parking lot eating that Taco Bell for dinner before your last 4 hour stint. If I decided to leave at 5 in the morning, I'll already be at my destination with a drink and a nice steak for dinner.

Which brings us to another topic. Which is more dangerous: Driving for 6 hours during the day between stops or leaving early in the morning, spending all day on the road, and driving well into the night because you had to stop and charge repeatedly.

Actually, there is a lot more people who drive mostly around town than people driving on the highway. Just think of the millions of people who live in large cities like LA, New York, Seattle, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando etc. etc.
With a 9 to 5 job, they will hit morning commuting traffic and commuting traffic on the way home. Commuting is the biggest contributor to the miles people put on their cars and anyone who lives and works in a large city and uses their car to commute will mostlly drive in stop and go traffic. Only a small percent of the population lives in rural ares. How do you think I'm able to get EPA on my Plaid? While I live rural, I work in Tampa.. Commute traffic is horrible. I average 50 mph on my commute and it's 90% highway.. Many many slow downs.. I've been to SoCal many times and rush hour traffic is absolutely insane. All major Highways move at like 20 mph..

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

I average 80 mph any time I take a road trip. That’s the speed limit for a large chunk.

The entire Southeast has a 70 mph speed limit and fines are high if you are caught 15+ mph over. In Texas, the limit is 75 mph but the elevated fines start at 8 mph over.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

I average 80 mph any time I take a road trip.

That's pretty impressive.

Of course, as @Aerovette will gladly tell you, your average speed includes all the times you are stopped at a red light or at a gas station or driving in bumper-to-bumper traffic, which tend to bring your average speed way down. So when you're in light traffic you must be doing significant bursts of 160MPH.

[GTOguy]

Mine doesn't have a paddle shifter. Just a Hurst stick. And 'sport mode' is when the secondary carburetor kicks in. My 'AC' is opening the cowl vent with a chrome lever. My mpg is terrible. But I can fill the tank in five minutes and be over the horizon in another minute.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

That's pretty impressive.

Of course, as @Aerovette will gladly tell you, your average speed includes all the times you are stopped at a red light or at a gas station or driving in bumper-to-bumper traffic, which tend to bring your average speed way down. So when you're in light traffic you must be doing significant bursts of 160MPH.

You have a great memory...and you aren't wrong.

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

That's pretty impressive.

Of course, as @Aerovette will gladly tell you, your average speed includes all the times you are stopped at a red light or at a gas station or driving in bumper-to-bumper traffic, which tend to bring your average speed way down. So when you're in light traffic you must be doing significant bursts of 160MPH.

I guess that's what that black ball player was doing last year when he killed that woman and her dog in Las Vegas when he rear ended her at 156 mph in a 40 mph zone in his C8 in the middle of town.