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Old 04-04-2020, 9:56pm   #221
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Itís not the best time to be exposed, itís about when is the medical facility near you least likely to be overloaded and most able to efficiently care for you.

You know, that little thing they keep talking about.....

ďFlatten the curveĒ
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Still no COVID19 patients in the hospital here. Still delaying previously scheduled exams, tests, treatments and surgeries because of something that might happen.
Pretty much the same way here. I hope it stays that way, too. Our county is pretty geographically isolated compared to others. In the summer we have a lot of tourists, but in the winter there's not much reason to be here unless you live here.

If I checked into the hospital with the virus right now I'd have access to about five doctors, ten nurses and five ventilators. Still adequate PPEs for all of them still, too. Who knows what it could look like a few weeks from now.

There are some cases in counties surrounding ours, but it hasn't really exploded yet.

So far all the masks my wife and her friends are making for the hospital are being given to employees to use outside of work or patients who are being discharged.
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Old 04-04-2020, 9:58pm   #222
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So there you have it - he was describing a worst-case scenario in an effort to enlist Federal assistance. So you can stop crowing about how his prediction was wrong.
It's not wrong yet... it will be, but not yet.

It won't even be close.

Trump is guilty also. "This should be over with by August"...

It's sandbagging so they can gloat and tell the world what they did worked and they can get reelected.

They're ALL guilty of it. Doesn't make it right. And destroying the economy at the same time.

I'm not worried about me. I'm worried about most everyone I know who live paycheck to paycheck. I'm worried about all my high school and college buddies in town who own businesses that will fail. I'm worried about us spending $6,000,000,000,000 to fix the economy.

Do you realize there are 27 languages that have no word for Trillion?

2.9 million Americans died in 2019. How many will die in 2020?
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:14pm   #223
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2.9 million Americans died in 2019. How many will die in 2020?
2 point ten!
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Old 04-04-2020, 10:38pm   #224
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12 in the hospital in our state.
69 hospitals in Montana and 12 patients.
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:06pm   #225
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:05am   #226
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It's not wrong yet... it will be, but not yet.

It won't even be close.

Trump is guilty also. "This should be over with by August"...

It's sandbagging so they can gloat and tell the world what they did worked and they can get reelected.

They're ALL guilty of it. Doesn't make it right. And destroying the economy at the same time.

I'm not worried about me. I'm worried about most everyone I know who live paycheck to paycheck. I'm worried about all my high school and college buddies in town who own businesses that will fail. I'm worried about us spending $6,000,000,000,000 to fix the economy.

Do you realize there are 27 languages that have no word for Trillion?

2.9 million Americans died in 2019. How many will die in 2020?


And at the risk of getting pig-piled on again, has anyone seen the numbers from the last few days? Has definitely fallen off of exponential growth again.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:28am   #227
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So it seems the media has switched to nurses blathering on tv(and some Dr's) about how bad it is, they didn't sign up for this amount of sickness and work. Well yes you did... If you didn't think it through beforehand that's on you. A plumber knows exactly what he's in for, an electrical lineman knows he's working in high winds with death always a possibility. A cop knows he can be hurt.
While I feel for nurses and doctors being inundated with an illness with no clear treatment plant, I don't expect them to blather about it either. Perhaps people are getting overly used to non stress at any time jobs and when it comes along they can't handle it(or not prepared) for it mentally.
Could be it's my mentality of non panic in an emergency situation, always time for worrying later.
Panic does nothing but harm in time of crisis. Be prepared and take whatever action you can.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:30am   #228
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And at the risk of getting pig-piled on again, has anyone seen the numbers from the last few days? Has definitely fallen off of exponential growth again.
You won't get dog-piled by me. I see this as no different than taking away all guns because there were school shootings.

Close ALL businesses because a percentage of people are getting sick.
Make us stay home because we might get sick and then
NOT give us the cure or any medicine because...it might make us sick.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:40am   #229
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So it seems the media has switched to nurses blathering on tv(and some Dr's) about how bad it is, they didn't sign up for this amount of sickness and work. Well yes you did... If you didn't think it through beforehand that's on you. A plumber knows exactly what he's in for, an electrical lineman knows he's working in high winds with death always a possibility. A cop knows he can be hurt.
While I feel for nurses and doctors being inundated with an illness with no clear treatment plant, I don't expect them to blather about it either. Perhaps people are getting overly used to non stress at any time jobs and when it comes along they can't handle it(or not prepared) for it mentally.
Could be it's my mentality of non panic in an emergency situation, always time for worrying later.
Panic does nothing but harm in time of crisis. Be prepared and take whatever action you can.
Doctors and nurses arenít generally asked to put their own health at risk to help others. Many in the medical field have already died from the virus.

The ones putting their own health at risk by going to work everyday can talk about how bad it is all they want as far as Iím concerned.

Thankfully the ones sitting this one out at home for various reasons donít see camera time
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:40am   #230
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You won't get dog-piled by me. I see this as no different than taking away all guns because there were school shootings.

Close ALL businesses because a percentage of people are getting sick.
Make us stay home because we might get sick and then
NOT give us the cure or any medicine because...it might make us sick.


The problem is that there are a lot of people who can't see that these two things are very different:

a. taking the threat seriously, and making appropriate behavior changes to protect yourself and others

b. get into a full-blown panic that this is definitely and uquestionably the end of the world as we know it so all measures, whether or not we have any idea if they will do any good or not, are justified

I am following path "a", while our so-called "leaders" are following path "b".

The next few weeks should be interesting as I expect the data to start showing that we reached the peak. It will be interesting to watch the tactics used to continue to whip up the panic.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:42am   #231
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Originally Posted by Rodnok1 View Post
So it seems the media has switched to nurses blathering on tv(and some Dr's) about how bad it is, they didn't sign up for this amount of sickness and work. Well yes you did... If you didn't think it through beforehand that's on you. A plumber knows exactly what he's in for, an electrical lineman knows he's working in high winds with death always a possibility. A cop knows he can be hurt.
While I feel for nurses and doctors being inundated with an illness with no clear treatment plant, I don't expect them to blather about it either. Perhaps people are getting overly used to non stress at any time jobs and when it comes along they can't handle it(or not prepared) for it mentally.
Could be it's my mentality of non panic in an emergency situation, always time for worrying later.
Panic does nothing but harm in time of crisis. Be prepared and take whatever action you can.

From all the medical boards I am on as well as the incident command meetings we are having. what I am hearing is massive frustration that our organizations we work for were not prepared.

We constantly have JCACO accreditation/regulations compliance shoved down our throats, and NOW we are told to reuse gloves and masks, or use what you have (like a fuggin DIY fabric mask or come up with a DIY ventilator without a proper respiratory team??


Would be like sending a cop into a SWAT scenario with a 9mm and one cliip, or a mechanic to work on a semi with basic tools, or a plumber to fix a broken city main line with a shovel and small wrench.

Yes, "we" in the medical field knew we will be exposed to infectious diseases, work long hours and deal with exhaustion, but to do it without the tools we need to help patient OR protect ourselves is not acceptable. Clearly no nation was prepared for this, but the USA, not being a 3rd world country, should have done better.



So yes, would be like doing plu
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:45am   #232
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Doctors and nurses arenít generally asked to put their own health at risk to help others. Many in the medical field have already died from the virus.

The ones putting their own health at risk by going to work everyday can talk about how bad it is all they want as far as Iím concerned.

Thankfully the ones sitting this one out at home for various reasons donít see camera time
Oh but they are asked every day, HIV, hepatitis, any number of blood born diseases one needle prick away from getting. Not to mention the flu seasonally. If they think they are not they have their heads ih the sand.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:49am   #233
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From all the medical boards I am on as well as the incident command meetings we are having. what I am hearing is massive frustration that our organizations we work for were not prepared.

We constantly have JCACO accreditation/regulations compliance shoved down our throats, and NOW we are told to reuse gloves and masks, or use what you have (like a fuggin DIY fabric mask or come up with a DIY ventilator without a proper respiratory team??


Would be like sending a cop into a SWAT scenario with a 9mm and one cliip, or a mechanic to work on a semi with basic tools, or a plumber to fix a broken city main line with a shovel and small wrench.

Yes, "we" in the medical field knew we will be exposed to infectious diseases, work long hours and deal with exhaustion, but to do it without the tools we need to help patient OR protect ourselves is not acceptable. Clearly no nation was prepared for this, but the USA, not being a 3rd world country, should have done better.



So yes, would be like doing plu
And you know what will change? Nothing. More taxes will be collected to better fund hospitals with NO oversight as to what happens to the money.

I'll bet ANYTHING that next year there will be stories of warehouses full of unused medical supplies purchased to deal with COVID 19 and now going to waste. Just like FEMA trailers after hurricanes and water in Puerto Rico. Money gets thrown at the problem so somebody can feel good about what they did and then it falls apart.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:50am   #234
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Oh but they are asked every day, HIV, hepatitis, any number of blood born diseases one needle prick away from getting. Not to mention the flu seasonally. If they think they are not they have their heads ih the sand.
All correct. But not a virus that can kill you.

Daughter is a psych nurse. She knew being stabbed, punched, kicked or spit on was a possibility, not a life ending virus.

Shit on the people there to help is an awesome thing to do. Iím sure many will be along shortly to agree with you.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:51am   #235
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Originally Posted by C3C7NIC View Post
From all the medical boards I am on as well as the incident command meetings we are having. what I am hearing is massive frustration that our organizations we work for were not prepared.

We constantly have JCACO accreditation/regulations compliance shoved down our throats, and NOW we are told to reuse gloves and masks, or use what you have (like a fuggin DIY fabric mask or come up with a DIY ventilator without a proper respiratory team??


Would be like sending a cop into a SWAT scenario with a 9mm and one cliip, or a mechanic to work on a semi with basic tools, or a plumber to fix a broken city main line with a shovel and small wrench.

Yes, "we" in the medical field knew we will be exposed to infectious diseases, work long hours and deal with exhaustion, but to do it without the tools we need to help patient OR protect ourselves is not acceptable. Clearly no nation was prepared for this, but the USA, not being a 3rd world country, should have done better.



So yes, would be like doing plu

I wonder if the lack of supplies comes from the on demand instead of stockpiles the country switched to decades ago, auto plants lead the way due to taxes. If you don't have it not taxed on it. I've seen auto plants shut down over a couple dozen window switches as thdy literally kept enough on hand for 1 day max.
Wonder if medical facilities pay taxes(and distributors etc) pay taxes on such items and why they don't keep a stockpile? Just a thought if they are perhaps that needs to be changed legally. Maybe ventilators aren't kept in large numbers of raises your taxes? I don't know just wondering.
As with all the veterans needing assistance post 9/11 funding has changed as well as facilities built, perhaps the same will happen after this... Unfortunately the lag time will not help with this incident.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:53am   #236
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I wonder if the lack of supplies comes from the on demand instead of stockpiles the country switched to decades ago, auto plants lead the way due to taxes. If you don't have it not taxed on it. I've seen auto plants shut down over a couple dozen window switches as thdy literally kept enough on hand for 1 day max.
Wonder if medical facilities pay taxes(and distributors etc) pay taxes on such items and why they don't keep a stockpile? Just a thought if they are perhaps that needs to be changed legally. Maybe ventilators aren't kept in large numbers of raises your taxes? I don't know just wondering.
As with all the veterans needing assistance post 9/11 funding has changed as well as facilities built, perhaps the same will happen after this... Unfortunately the lag time will not help with this incident.
JIT manufacturing works if managed properly but one glitch shuts down the whole mess.
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Old 04-05-2020, 7:57am   #237
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The problem at its basic level is that we should be doing an actual quarantine, but we're not. A quarantine is: Find sick people, quarantine them from healthy people.

What we are doing is locking away perfectly healthy people, making rendering aid to the sick even that much more difficult. It's got to stop. Like one doctor said last night, WASH YOUR HANDS AND DON'T TOUCH YOUR FACE. And then wash those hands again. That will stop the transmission of this virus quite effectively. There are a couple of treatments now, we should be producing their components right this second, and they should be made over the counter, right now. Ask people to limit their travel for awhile, like stay in a two county area or something like that.

That would work every bit as well as the cluster we have right now. And in case anyone is wondering, yes HCQ pills were over-the-counter in many countries for decades, and it wasn't an issue whatsoever.
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Old 04-05-2020, 8:00am   #238
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JIT manufacturing works if managed properly but one glitch shuts down the whole mess.
JIT manufacturing is intended for continuous processes with known production rates. That is about as bad a match with health care as I can imagine.

I have said this all along: the problems presently being experienced in the health care industry are a failure of MANAGEMENT, not providers. Doctors and Nurses are not the ones making gloves, masks, and ventilators, nor are they responsible for setting and maintaining appropriate stocking levels any further up the chain than their own office or hospital.
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Old 04-05-2020, 8:05am   #239
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More tests are now available than two weeks ago.

This equates into more people will test positive than two weeks ago.

The media (and others) will turn that into:
"it's getting worse...we gonna die!"
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Old 04-05-2020, 8:07am   #240
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And watch this. What do you want to bet that one of these treatments that are proving to be promising for treating coronavirus also are found to work on other diseases like the regular flu, common cold, etc? It's so weird the push-back on these treatments in some quarters. It's almost like they would rather you die than try them.
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