AR-15 related question for the gun enthusiasts here.

Cybercowboy · 10-09-2017, 11:22am

I have a really nice Colt AR-15 Sporter Match HBAR that I got for my wife back in the 80's when she was shooting iron sight competitions. This rifle is set up to be very accurate with just iron sights, but I want to put a holographic sight or some other type of sight to make it more fun to shoot outside the 100-yard range. The rifle has the upper with the carry handle, and stock heat shields with no Picatinny/Weaver mounting rails at all.

So, I know there are a variety of carry handle rails like these that allow you to mount an optic of some sort, either right on the handle or ahead of it. It would be nice to maybe have just a red dot sight, and also maybe a 2x power optical sight, or a holographic perhaps.

Anyone have some experience with this that would want to share their recommendations? I can also go ahead and get new heat shields or whatever they are called with integrated rails or at least places you can put rails, but I'm not planning on putting a light or laser or night vision stuff on this rifle, at least not yet. Also I don't want it for home defense, already have that covered.

69camfrk · 10-09-2017, 11:36am

I like the Eotech holographic sights. They are pricey, but well built and reliable. What I would not do is pay 600 bux for one of their magnifiers though. You can get cheap ones that do the same thing and won't degrade the sight whatsoever. If you want to keep it under $200, Vortex makes a decent red dot scope.

Cybercowboy · 10-09-2017, 11:48am

Wow, almost $1000 for a 1x holographic sight?

Nox · 10-09-2017, 12:58pm

Eotech kind of suck on carry handles and work better on a flat top AR. That being said, I sent both my Eotechs back to the factory when the massive zero drift issues surfaced and I got my money back. Lastly Eotechs are better are CQB distances.

The best optic for a carry handle is still the ACOG. There are many to choose from, and they are great at distance.

Nox · 10-09-2017, 1:06pm

Or you could go old school and put on an original Colt 4 power scope like I did. I got this set up back in the day. Still have it. Shoots great.

Cybercowboy · 10-09-2017, 1:06pm

Nox, do you have an ACOG laying around in a box somewhere that you're not using?

Cybercowboy · 10-09-2017, 1:26pm

Nox, I'll check that Colt scope out! What do you think of the Leupold VX-R Patrol in this application?

Nox · 10-09-2017, 1:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Nox, I'll check that Colt scope out! What do you think of the Leupold VX-R Patrol in this application?

Leupold makes outstanding optics. Any optic with reticle will be better than a holographic red dot optic beyond 100 yards. RDS work best at close in distances for rapid target acquisition. If you’re interested in shots beyond 100 yards on a regular basis, your reticle optics are the way to go.

I use an RDS because almost all of my work is from 1 to 100 yards. However, when I am working beyond 100 yards, I usually go to a standard reticle.

Cybercowboy · 10-09-2017, 1:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nox

Leupold makes outstanding optics. Any optic with reticle will be better than a holographic red dot optic beyond 100 yards. RDS work best at close in distances for rapid target acquisition. If you’re interested in shots beyond 100 yards on a regular basis, your reticle optics are the way to go.

I use an RDS because almost all of my work is from 1 to 100 yards. However, when I am working beyond 100 yards, I usually go to a standard reticle.

Yes, I have a regular 4x Leupold scope on a 6.5x55 mauser and it's great. BTW your AR-15 picture is, as far as I can tell, identical to mine. I see no reason to change out the stock or heat shield. If I want to go with a full rail setup I'll just get a new rifle to start with I think. This one is damn cool the way it is. I already ordered a short rail made to mount on a M16 carry handle, so now I'm just going to find a decent reticle optic and mounting rings and go that route. I like that you can use the iron sights with the scope mounted, that's pretty sweet.

Nox · 10-09-2017, 2:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Yes, I have a regular 4x Leupold scope on a 6.5x55 mauser and it's great. BTW your AR-15 picture is, as far as I can tell, identical to mine. I see no reason to change out the stock or heat shield. If I want to go with a full rail setup I'll just get a new rifle to start with I think. This one is damn cool the way it is. I already ordered a short rail made to mount on a M16 carry handle, so now I'm just going to find a decent reticle optic and mounting rings and go that route. I like that you can use the iron sights with the scope mounted, that's pretty sweet.

I have a few ARs to choose from so I just opted to keep the Colt Sporter H-Bar in original condition. That’s why I went with the old school Colt scope. However, in a pinch, you can just throw a complete A4 flat top upper on the Sporter and it becomes an M-4, albeit with a fixed stock. It takes 2 seconds.

And with most RDS, you should be able to co-witness. I have 1/3 lower co-witness on all my RDS optics so I can use my irons if I need to.

Cybercowboy · 10-09-2017, 2:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nox

I have a few ARs to choose from so I just opted to keep the Colt Sporter H-Bar in original condition. That’s why I went with the old school Colt scope. However, in a pinch, you can just throw a complete A4 flat top upper on the Sporter and it becomes an M-4, albeit with a fixed stock. It takes 2 seconds.

And with most RDS, you should be able to co-witness. I have 1/3 lower co-witness on all my RDS optics so I can use my irons if I need to.

Yeah in my searches on this I saw a A4 flat top kit that looked really nice for under $400, with charging handle too. I haven't modified the AR platform ever so this is a learning experience for me.

Nox · 10-09-2017, 2:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Yeah in my searches on this I saw a A4 flat top kit that looked really nice for under $400, with charging handle too. I haven't modified the AR platform ever so this is a learning experience for me.

Just make sure it comes with the bolt carrier group also. Also, even though they sell them, any upper with less than 16 inch barrel will have to be registered as an SBR so be careful. I prefer 1:8 or 1:9 barrels, but everyone’s mileage varies. I shoot M-193 almost exclusively, so 1:9 is good to go for me.

markids77 · 10-09-2017, 7:22pm

Carry handle mounted optics are a compromise because they end up so far above the bore centerline. If you are willing to build a separate upper to mount an optic might I suggest you simply swap your barrel assembly onto a stripped flat top upper? If you own a torque wrench, you can acquire a new upper receiver, and the tooling to do the swap for about $100.00 all in if you eschew the dust door and forward assist. First time should take less than an hour, and you can mount the sight of your dreams down low as it should be.

Also be aware that some Colt lowers use a different diameter push pin than the current industry standard. If you get a stripped upper or build a complete upper make certain you acquire parts that fit your gun.

Cybercowboy · 10-12-2017, 12:23pm

Anybody have any comment on this complete upper, perhaps with the nickle-boron BCG upgrade?

Nox · 10-12-2017, 4:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Anybody have any comment on this complete upper, perhaps with the nickle-boron BCG upgrade?

Not familiar with this particular upper, but .223 Wylde is the way to go. No front sight?

Cybercowboy · 10-12-2017, 4:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nox

Not familiar with this particular upper, but .223 Wylde is the way to go. No front sight?

No, but I did also get a Vortex Optics StrikeFire 2 Red/Green Dot Sight, Vortex VMX-3T Magnifier with Flip Mount, and a flip up optics cover for the magnifier. I will then see, after all is said and done, what to do about iron sights. If any. I need a front sight with a red dot? Or I need it if the red dot doesn't work for some reason? Uhh...

Also I will be able to swap the red dot and magnifier to the old upper if I want at any time, and leave that totally as-is. Just got done going through the entire rifle with a fine tooth comb, it's in perfect shape and all nice, clean, lubed up. Also got an adapter pin for the large front take-down hole on the old Colt lower. Will make taking the upper totally off the lower a tiny bit more annoying, but that's OK. So I'll have two AR's now. A really nice 20" heavy barrel iron sight rifle and an M4-style flat-top with plenty of rail room for add-ons, and my first was a curved foregrip.

Nox, I'm probably screwing up on some level but I really wanted to scratch that gun itch and I have plenty of handguns, and now at any point I can just buy another lower and *poof* have two AR's, one .223 only, and this Wylde.

Nox · 10-12-2017, 6:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

No, but I did also get a Vortex Optics StrikeFire 2 Red/Green Dot Sight, Vortex VMX-3T Magnifier with Flip Mount, and a flip up optics cover for the magnifier. I will then see, after all is said and done, what to do about iron sights. If any. I need a front sight with a red dot? Or I need it if the red dot doesn't work for some reason? Uhh...

Also I will be able to swap the red dot and magnifier to the old upper if I want at any time, and leave that totally as-is. Just got done going through the entire rifle with a fine tooth comb, it's in perfect shape and all nice, clean, lubed up. Also got an adapter pin for the large front take-down hole on the old Colt lower. Will make taking the upper totally off the lower a tiny bit more annoying, but that's OK. So I'll have two AR's now. A really nice 20" heavy barrel iron sight rifle and an M4-style flat-top with plenty of rail room for add-ons, and my first was a curved foregrip.

Nox, I'm probably screwing up on some level but I really wanted to scratch that gun itch and I have plenty of handguns, and now at any point I can just buy another lower and *poof* have two AR's, one .223 only, and this Wylde.

Front and rear sights though optional, are great for back up in the event your optic takes a dump. In your case you may not need it. They make add on front sights if you ever need them.

Cybercowboy · 10-12-2017, 6:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nox

Front and rear sights though optional, are great for back up in the event your optic takes a dump. In your case you may not need it. They make add on front sights if you ever need them.

Right, I should have amended my post as I took the 20 seconds out of my day to verify this very thing!

Shit man, I am just goofing around with this and trying not to make my wife mad about messing with "her" AR. After I mount my optics I will probably reconsider something or other and adding backup sights to this thing will be something I'll consider possibly but it's doubtful I'll be out in the desert with this thing in survival mode. Well, unless Elizabeth Warren wins in 2020...

Most likely sometime this winter I'll build a compatible lower for the new parts and have a essentially a .556 carbine.

JRD77VET · 10-12-2017, 6:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nox

Or you could go old school and put on an original Colt 4 power scope like I did. I got this set up back in the day. Still have it. Shoots great.

What type/brand of A2 scope mount is that?

Thanks

markids77 · 10-12-2017, 8:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Anybody have any comment on this complete upper, perhaps with the nickle-boron BCG upgrade?

If you purchase that upper find some rail covers and get them to arrive about the same time the upper does. These are snap in plastic fillers that will ease a lot of the sharp edges found on that handguard, and make long range sessions more tolerable. Or upgrade to a more modern style when you order.

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