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Old 12-12-2018, 11:15pm   #1
SnikPlosskin
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Default Question about AR15 uppers

I bought a very inexpensive lower from Palmetto ($129). Now I’m looking at uppers and whoa boy, too many choices!

My big question is this. I reload and shoot mostly 55 grain projectiles. I read that the barrel ratio should be 1:9 for light rounds like this.

But I can’t seem to find many with that twist rate in a 16” carbine length. Would a 1:7 work just as well?

I’m trying to see if I can build one for less than $400 without optics. Seems possible although you ain’t gonna get a decent trigger.

What’s the deal with twist ratios? Is it really that important?
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:39am   #2
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Twist ratio is important. The lighter grain shells use a tighter twist to increase spin in order to make them more accurate. A heavier grain is likely to break apart at higher rate twists, hence the 1:7 and 1:8. Mine (Ruger AR556) is designed to use 62 grain, 1:8 twist. I use 55g a lot and at fifty yards not much difference. At a hundred the 55g will rise a little more due to the lighter weight. I would guess it would be more accurate with a 1:9 on the 55g. Faster spin, more level flight.

I also have one of the .22 Ar's (S&W M&P). Same with it. 1:15 twist on it. The 40g works best versus the 36/38/42.

BTW, the Ruger can be bought new for $549. Sometimes a little less. Grabagun ran them a few months ago for $519. That's a complete rifle with flip up sights and a warranty. I've had a bunch of custom builts (actually one with a Palmetto lower) and factory rifles. Sold off all but the Rugers after I bought the first one.
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Old 12-13-2018, 1:20am   #3
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For practical accuracy, 1:7 twist is fine. The military uses 1:7 for their M4’s and they shoot M193 (55 grain) rounds all day long.
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Old 12-13-2018, 8:53am   #4
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Twist ration is important. The lighter grain shells use a tighter twist to increase spin in order to make them more accurate. A heavier grain is likely to break apart at higher rate twists, hence the 1:7 and 1:8. Mine (Ruger AR556) is designed to use 62 grain, 1:8 twist. I use 55g a lot and at fifty yards not much difference. At a hundred the 55g will rise a little more due to the lighter weight. I would guess it would be more accurate with a 1:9 on the 55g. Faster spin, more level flight.

I also have one of the .22 Ar's (S&W M&P). Same with it. 1:15 twist on it. The 40g works best versus the 36/38/42.

BTW, the Ruger can be bought new for $549. Sometimes a little less. Grabagun ran them a few months ago for $519. That's a complete rifle with flip up sights and a warranty. I've had a bunch of custom builts (actually one with a Palmetto lower) and factory rifles. Sold off all but the Rugers after I bought the first one.
Wow. $519 is damn good. But my real reason is to better understand the platform. For example I’ve never installed and removed a trigger. Turns out, once you figure out how that spring works (the one that shoots across the room when you remove the pins) it’s a breeze.

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For practical accuracy, 1:7 twist is fine. The military uses 1:7 for their M4’s and they shoot M193 (55 grain) rounds all day long.
Great. Those are much easier to find.

Now it’s chrome vs. Nitrite
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Old 12-13-2018, 9:08am   #5
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Now it’s chrome vs. Nitrite
If you plan to shoot it and not clean it, and generally abuse it, get chrome lined. They are slightly less accurate, but they are easier to clean and stand up better to rough use. Military barrels are chrome lined. They may not be dead nuts accurate, but they get the job done.
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Old 12-13-2018, 9:59am   #6
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The Palmetto state uppers are really good too. Their barrels are made by FN in Columbia SC. I have built a number of AR's using their parts. Sign up for their daily deals and you can find some real bargains. Go to Youtube for a tutorial on building the lower. Very easy. The only spring you have to be careful about is the forward takedown pin retainer/spring. A Xacto knife or a safety razor works well holding it in place as you slide the takedown pin through the receiver.
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Old 12-13-2018, 3:50pm   #7
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If you plan to shoot it and not clean it, and generally abuse it, get chrome lined. They are slightly less accurate, but they are easier to clean and stand up better to rough use. Military barrels are chrome lined. They may not be dead nuts accurate, but they get the job done.
They seem cheaper. And from what I’ve read the average person doesn’t notice the difference. I tend to clean my guns after every shooting session.

On a related note, the .357 mag Ruger Blackhawk I inherited from my dad is a blast to shoot. I’m not used to cowboy type handgrips and balance. Thought it would impair my aim but that damn thing is accurate!
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Old 12-13-2018, 5:22pm   #8
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Another place for you to check out. I used on of their uppers in my last AR-15 build and it was very nice and the price is right. The nickle-boron EXO M16 BCG's are nice too.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:39pm   #9
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All mine have been chrome lined, but I also clean after every outing. Part of the therapy! I figure I'll never shoot more than a hundred yards so the twist ratio and ammo aren't that big a deal. I just sport shoot for fun, no competition. Usually use 55g. Cheaper and easier to find.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:48am   #10
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Back in 1983 I bought a complete new G.I. parts set (minus the lower receiver),
and built my first AR. I got a PWA lower for 59 bucks.
It shot well but I've tried other uppers and Palmetto was great!

But I never liked the idea of blowing hot gas and burned powder into the
receiver so last month I picked up a new Adams Arms upper with 16"
barrel.
I also put a PDQ Ambidextrous bolt stop/release in because the stock
release is left handed.
Adams upper has no gas tube to the bolt, it's a gas piston-driven op-rod
and the receiver runs cooler and much cleaner. Same idea as M1's and M14's/M1-A's.
Added flip up sights. This thing is very accurate for the shorter barrel!

I love the modular platform of the AR series! SO versatile!!!
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:01am   #11
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Ruger AR556 on sale now at Grabagun for $499, $10 shipping.
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Old 12-15-2018, 7:39am   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQUIRMIN VERMIN 84 View Post
Back in 1983 I bought a complete new G.I. parts set (minus the lower receiver),
and built my first AR. I got a PWA lower for 59 bucks.
It shot well but I've tried other uppers and Palmetto was great!

But I never liked the idea of blowing hot gas and burned powder into the
receiver so last month I picked up a new Adams Arms upper with 16"
barrel.
I also put a PDQ Ambidextrous bolt stop/release in because the stock
release is left handed.
Adams upper has no gas tube to the bolt, it's a gas piston-driven op-rod
and the receiver runs cooler and much cleaner. Same idea as M1's and M14's/M1-A's.
Added flip up sights. This thing is very accurate for the shorter barrel!

I love the modular platform of the AR series! SO versatile!!!
NOW I WISH I GOT ONE OF THE ADAMS UPPERS YOU MAKE ME MAD!
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Old 12-16-2018, 5:39am   #13
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NOW I WISH I GOT ONE OF THE ADAMS UPPERS YOU MAKE ME MAD!


The Adams gas block is adjustable! You can have an open gas setting for regular operation,
or a partially restricted setting for hot loads or a completely closed port
which is nice for silencers as it doesn't operate the action-you do it manually
when you're ready to operate it slowly for hushing the action's mechanical
noise. Just a depressing of a detent on the gas block and you turn the piston
setting to desired operation.
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:05am   #14
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Bought a Palmetto 1:7 Nitrite 16” with BCG for $199 on sale ($299 regular price). I’m going to play with this one. I’ve only field stripped. I want to understand how the stock comes off, how the gas tube goes in and out, etc.
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Old 12-16-2018, 6:06pm   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnikPlosskin View Post
Bought a Palmetto 1:7 Nitrite 16” with BCG for $199 on sale ($299 regular price). I’m going to play with this one. I’ve only field stripped. I want to understand how the stock comes off, how the gas tube goes in and out, etc.
Some recommendations I have. Make sure you have a good set of punches and an armorer’s wrench. Trust me when I say a decent AR wrench will save you a lot of anguish and possibly damaged parts. Another recommendation is to work in a well lit location with a smooth surface. I do not recommend working on ARs in a carpeted area. Little things like detent springs love to hide in carpet.
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Old 12-16-2018, 6:39pm   #16
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Some recommendations I have. Make sure you have a good set of punches and an armorer’s wrench. Trust me when I say a decent AR wrench will save you a lot of anguish and possibly damaged parts. Another recommendation is to work in a well lit location with a smooth surface. I do not recommend working on ARs in a carpeted area. Little things like detent springs love to hide in carpet.
Word of advice.....leave your gas tube alone....
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Old 12-16-2018, 8:29pm   #17
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Quote:
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Some recommendations I have. Make sure you have a good set of punches and an armorer’s wrench. Trust me when I say a decent AR wrench will save you a lot of anguish and possibly damaged parts. Another recommendation is to work in a well lit location with a smooth surface. I do not recommend working on ARs in a carpeted area. Little things like detent springs love to hide in carpet.
Spring for a quality set of punches like the Starrets I use. Get extra long punches as standard length tools can be just a wee bit short to completely clear stubborn pins from your receiver without bottoming out and making divots around your pin holes because you will not think JUST THAT EXTRA TAP to make sure it really is bottomed will phuck up the surface of the receiver.
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Old 12-17-2018, 5:43am   #18
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Spring for a quality set of punches like the Starrets I use. Get extra long punches as standard length tools can be just a wee bit short to completely clear stubborn pins from your receiver without bottoming out and making divots around your pin holes because you will not think JUST THAT EXTRA TAP to make sure it really is bottomed will phuck up the surface of the receiver.
Starrets are good!
I've ground down the side of a couple of long punches to fit the landscape of the
receiver and lower the longitudinal center of the punch to match the center
of the roll pin I'm working with. Much better angle of attack and less prone to
slip off.
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Old 12-17-2018, 8:32pm   #19
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Starrets are good!
I've ground down the side of a couple of long punches to fit the landscape of the
receiver and lower the longitudinal center of the punch to match the center
of the roll pin I'm working with. Much better angle of attack and less prone to
slip off.
I have modded a dedicated roll pin punch to get at that pesky rascal that holds the bolt stop. I ruined a couple roll pins and scarred my first receiver badly before I got smart.
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Old 12-17-2018, 8:36pm   #20
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Quote:
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I have modded a dedicated roll pin punch to get at that pesky rascal that holds the bolt stop. I ruined a couple roll pins and scarred my first receiver badly before I got smart.
How 'bout some pics of that roll pin punch.
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