Todays DOW

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Sometimes I think we would all be better off with no stock market. I think fear and speculation are a leading - if not the primary - cause of recessions.

Stock traders, brokers, investment firms, money market managers, etc, all make money in good and bad times. The only people that get screwed are investors.

If people turned off the market reports and went to work, we would probably be better off.

You'd actually start to worry when the DOW is to high, say 14,000 like it was under Bush before it began it's rapid decline ... 12,000 is an all-around good number ... so although this sharp decline today has wiped-out this years gains ... well, we'll see ...

[bearstrail]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Sometimes I think we would all be better off with no stock market. I think fear and speculation are a leading - if not the primary - cause of recessions.

Stock traders, brokers, investment firms, money market managers, etc, all make money in good and bad times. The only people that get screwed are investors.

If people turned off the market reports and went to work, we would probably be better off.

I agree in a lot of ways. This game is rigged for the people running it and regularly screws over those that are supposed to be the beneficiaries of the output. At the very least I would yank out the ability to do anyhting on margin. But we would still need a good way to raise capital to facilitate business growth.

[Will]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Sometimes I think we would all be better off with no stock market. I think fear and speculation are a leading - if not the primary - cause of recessions.

Stock traders, brokers, investment firms, money market managers, etc, all make money in good and bad times. The only people that get screwed are investors.

If people turned off the market reports and went to work, we would probably be better off.

Looking at recent history - you're absolutely correct. The past two recessions were BOTH resultant from speculative bubbles.


Furthermore, TARP, bailouts, etc. prevented those responsible and those who profited from paying the ultimate consequences.

The wealth gap which liberals often complain about did NOT cause the great crash of 1929 and resulting depression. The wealth gap was another effect of the same phenomenon leading to the great crash - a speculative market bubble.

The gap lessened afterward not because of any new deal policies, but because those who profited from the bubble suffered from it's collapse. Obviously everyone else too suffered with the overall economic impact, and poor people suffered more physically because they had less to begin with, but the upper class and investors as a whole took the biggest bath, and the gap shrunk.

The gap would have shrunk again beginning in late 2008, but we prevented that with govt. meddling.

Honestly, I view the Wall Street crowd as nothing more than money-changers, and I stopped parking my money there in 2007 thankfully.

Now I'm an impoverished student again, but once me and the Mrs. begin our new professional careers in 2012 (or at least she will, with me who knows) NO MORE stock market investing. To hell with it.

I want real estate, and I want BUSINESSES. A successful fast food franchise is a money making machine, and as we just learned, CONTINUES TO BE A MONEY MAKING MACHINE EVEN IN HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE DOWNTURNS.

The real estate bubble screwed the short-term flipping clowns. Over the LONG haul, it is still a great investment. Land is land. It's tangible. It's much more safe. And over the LONG haul, it HAS to increase in worth because it will become more scarce, while population will continue to grow.

All you investors can tell me how crazy I am. Whatever. I was never great at the stock game to begin with. To HELL with it. I want REAL, TANGIBLE assets located right in my back yard.

[Will]

Originally Posted by bearstrail

But we would still need a good way to raise capital to facilitate business growth.

Agreed. Why not offer investors at home and abroad the ULTIMATE investment opportunity.


Higher potential returns = higher risk.

Lower risk = lower potential return.

A basic law of investing we all understand, and live by every day.

What if the United States could break the rules, and offer investors Higher return with lower risk?

We can. Regulate the PISS out of Wall-Street, treat Bernie Madoff types like child rapists and murderers, etc. Maybe this will include your suggestion of barring activity on margin?

At the same time, ABOLISH corporate income taxes. ABOLISH individual income taxes. ABOLISH capital gains taxes. Institute a national retail sales tax, NOT a VAT tax.

= PROFIT.

Hell, use IRS agents and assets (because it will still exist in some form to collect and monitor the sales tax) in programs designed to instruct foreigners how to invest in the U.S. and avoid tax liability outside of the U.S. on gains they make, which of course will not be taxed inside the U.S. with the abolition of capital gains taxation.

Just some crazy brain-storming.

[high desert]

DOW now down 512 pts.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by high desert

DOW now down 512 pts.

... at close ...

[bearstrail]

Originally Posted by Exotix

... at close ...

holy crap!

[VITE1]

Asian markets opened down between 2-4.5%. It's going to be a rough day tomorrow.

[VITE1]

The Asian markets all closed down. between 2-4.8%. If the jobs report is as bad as I think it Will be then it's going to be a rough ride.

[Exotix]

So Boehener makes the statement that he got 98% of what he wanted in the Debt-Ceiling deal, the Tea Party says they lost in the Debt-Ceiling deal because they didn't completely strip Congress and the Whitehouse of it's powers and McConnell says he successfully held America hostage for ransom and the markets crash the following 2 days ...

Nice.

[Exotix]

... todays' closing ...




I suggest this reflects todays job numbers ..




U.S. economy created 117,000 jobs in July; jobless rate slips.
Sigh of relief for Wall Street after worst stock-market sell-off since 2008 financial crisis.

U.S. economy created 117,000 jobs in July - Business - Stocks & economy - msnbc.com


U.S. businesses stepped up their hiring in July, offering a modest amount of optimism after the worst stock-market sell-off since the 2008 financial crisis.

The Labor Department’s latest jobs report shows U.S. economy generated 117,000 jobs last month — more than twice the revised rate from June.


“It’s just so nice not to be punched in the gut again with these numbers,” Diane Swonk, chief economist and senior managing director at Mesirow Financial, told CNBC Friday.
“I can finally breathe.”

The unemployment rate ticked down to 9.1 percent in July from 9.2 percent in the previous month, the government said, partly because some unemployed workers stopped looking for work.

That means they are no longer counted as unemployed.

As a result, the number of unemployed people fell to 13.9 million, down from 14.1 million — that's nearly double the total before the recession.



The bright spots in the monthly jobs report included the creation of 154,000 private-sector jobs in July, with employment growth in healthcare, retail and manufacturing, even as the government sector cut 37,000 jobs. Still, 23,000 of those losses were almost entirely because of the shutdown of Minnesota’s state government.

May and June’s payroll numbers were revised higher by 56,000.

But over time a 117,000 monthly jobs gain isn’t enough to keep the unemployment rate from rising.
Nor would it erase fears on Wall Street that the U.S. may be on the verge of another recession.



Economists at Bank of America Merrill Lynch estimate that there is a 35 percent chance of another recession within the next year.

At least 125,000 jobs a month are needed to keep up with population growth.

Twice as many are generally associated with significant declines in the unemployment rate, which had risen for three straight months before July.



President Barack Obama welcomed the latest jobs report, calling it encouraging and promising “things will get better.”

At the same time, Obama said the economy isn’t producing enough jobs — something he said must be corrected.

Obama made the observations while discussing a new initiative to provide tax credits for companies that hire out-of-work military veterans.

He told Washington’s Navy Yard audience "we are going to get through this,” adding that more jobs must be created each month to make up for the over 8 million jobs lost in the recession.



July’s modest jobs gain comes amid turmoil on world financial markets, as investors worry about a weak U.S. recovery, limited job creation and Europe's inability to tame its spreading debt crisis.

U.S. stocks on Thursday suffered their worst sell-off in two years, while European stocks slumped to a level not seen since after the financial crisis in mid-2009. Earlier Friday, heightened concerns about Europe's debt crisis sent global stock markets plummeting again.

The deal reached this week in Washington to raise the nation's borrowing limit failed to stem the selling.

Though investors no longer worried that the U.S. government would default on its debt, a fresh batch of data showed that the economy was in worse shape than many had thought.



(Read continues in Link)

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Exotix

So Boehener makes the statement that he got 98% of what he wanted in the Debt-Ceiling deal, the Tea Party says they lost in the Debt-Ceiling deal because they didn't completely strip Congress and the Whitehouse of it's powers and McConnell says he successfully held America hostage for ransom and the markets crash the following 2 days ...

Nice.

So what was it they said they were going to do last October?

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by ChasC5

So what was it they said they were going to do last October?

Create jobs by demanding people not have sex because a women might get pregnant ?

[ChasC5]

Originally Posted by Exotix

Create jobs by demanding people not have sex because a women might get pregnant ?

Any good R Politicion love Sex, unless it's anyone else.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by ChasC5

Any good R Politicion love Sex, unless it's anyone else.

(R) wacko of Iowa Steve King the jobs creator by outlawing planned parenthood and abortion now wants to outlaw birth control because *If we let our birth rate get down below replacement rate we're a dying civilization*



He looks just like Hannibal Lecter ...

[Exotix]

Wall Street drops amid global stock rout after US downgrade.
S&P cuts U.S. credit rating; Europe moves to help Italy, Spain avoid devastating defaults.


Just in

Wall Street tumbles after US downgrade - Business - Stocks & economy - msnbc.com




NEW YORK ~ Wall Street tumbled at Monday’s opening bell amid a rout in global stocks after Standard & Poor’s downgraded the U.S. credit rating for the first time.

Major Market Indices ~ The Dow Jones industrial average was down over 200 points at the start of trading.



... numbers at the moment to be posted shortly ...

[Exotix]

... at the moment ... Market(s) over-sold ...

[Exotix]

... at the moment ...

[ChasC5]

This a perfect example of cause and effect.

[Exotix]

Originally Posted by ChasC5

This a perfect example of cause and effect.

GOP/Tea Party intentional intended cause & effect ...