Minimum wage

[73sbVert]

Originally Posted by VITE1

Dr Friedman and I disagree.

But, he's right. I don't have access to the proper stats and charts like Will has, but I'd be willing to bet that there is a correlation between minimum wage hikes being enacted and unemployment rates going UP with corresponding increases across the board in almost every consumer item available. Within a few months of those hikes, the unemployment goes up because businesses are being forced to make do with less and the first casualty is the unskilled labor that was artificially propped up by the hike. And within the first year of that hike, the market starts to correct and the cost of everything else rises to keep up with the artificially inflated wage rate.
How can you not see this??

Originally Posted by NeedSpeed

Are you saying, let the homeless die, it's their problem? Tell them to GTFO off my streets?

There has to be a line. I'm not saying I encourage entitlement. But I think at some level as a society, we're in it together.

Trust me, I paid enough taxes last year to pay someone minimum wage. I'm not happy about that. But, as a teacher, I've seen a lot people that just aren't gonna cut it, no matter what you do.

But, we should just eliminate them I guess.

Originally Posted by Thomas

Because WE, (That includes YOU) are a civilized society. Some people fall on hard times, some make incredibly poor decisions. Personally, I don't mind some of my tax dollars going to help the poor, underprivileged, and people who fall on hard times. But the tit that is Thomas isn't endless either. Thing's have gotten WAY outta hand.

I just don't understand the "Fuck 'em, let them rot" mentality.

No one is saying any of that. What we don't like though is the use of force by the gov't, and a gun pointed at our heads saying you MUST support ALLLLLLL those people, for as long as we say, or else we will put YOU in jail or otherwise penalize YOU for not paying for THEIR bad decisions.

I'm all for charity, I give quite a bit, but that should be MY decision on where my support goes, not the freaking governments, who takes a huge cut to "administrate" the charity funds and doles it out badly, in shitty proportion to who _I_ think should be getting it.

Another interesting statistic to check would be the rates of giving to charities across the board, and their relation to forced wage hikes. I'll bet you find a correlation there too, but not in a good way.


ETA: No one is expected to raise a family on minimum wage, no one is expected to STAY on minimum wage. If someone is on minimum wage past 3 or 4 months after starting, there's probably a good reason.
Again, I shouldn't be forced to support anything or anyone. If I give to support someone or a cause, it should be MY decision, and not some bureaucrat in D.C.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by island14

I was happy to get paid minimum wage when I was a teen, I think it was $1.65 an hour..

I recall $2.30 ish. This mean's YOU are older than me.

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by 73sbVert

But, he's right. I don't have access to the proper stats and charts like Will has, but I'd be willing to bet that there is a correlation between minimum wage hikes being enacted and unemployment rates going UP with corresponding increases across the board in almost every consumer item available. Within a few months of those hikes, the unemployment goes up because businesses are being forced to make do with less and the first casualty is the unskilled labor that was artificially propped up by the hike. And within the first year of that hike, the market starts to correct and the cost of everything else rises to keep up with the artificially inflated wage rate.
How can you not see this??

No one is saying any of that. What we don't like though is the use of force by the gov't, and a gun pointed at our heads saying you MUST support ALLLLLLL those people, for as long as we say, or else we will put YOU in jail or otherwise penalize YOU for not paying for THEIR bad decisions.

I'm all for charity, I give quite a bit, but that should be MY decision on where my support goes, not the freaking governments, who takes a huge cut to "administrate" the charity funds and doles it out badly, in shitty proportion to who _I_ think should be getting it.

Another interesting statistic to check would be the rates of giving to charities across the board, and their relation to forced wage hikes. I'll bet you find a correlation there too, but not in a good way.

Thus why I said there needs to be a line, and it's about impossible to draw. Too far in either direction causes problems.

[island14]

Originally Posted by Back40

I'm lucky to break even most years. The little story I posted is funny, but it's also true. However, I don't pay much in property taxes because I raise livestock, and I have really awesome beef and chicken. I can't buy from the grocery store any more. That food doesn't have flavor like mine. Now if I could just keep the damn coyotes and hawks from killing all my chickens!

Plus you know how they were fed..

Nothing on your scale, but we raise just one pig at a time for special occasions like birthdays, and holidays, ours always taste better than buying at the market...

Hire a few Filipinos as security, and tell them they can eat all the coyotes and hawks they kill...

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I recall $2.30 ish. This mean's YOU are older than me.

I think it was $3.25 for me. Of course, a gallon of gas was just under $1 I think, about about a third of my hourly pay. I think minimum was is around $7 now and gas is about 1/2 that.

Interesting, though meaningless I think.

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by island14

Hire a few Filipinos as security, and tell them they can eat all the coyotes and hawks they kill...

They work cheap right?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

No one is saying any of that. What we don't like though is the use of force by the gov't, and a gun pointed at our heads saying you MUST support ALLLLLLL those people, for as long as we say, or else we will put YOU in jail or otherwise penalize YOU for not paying for THEIR bad decisions.

I don't like it anymore than you do. But there are some people here with ZERO empathy for welfare recipients regardless of the situation. I'm simply not one of them. It's the Libfuktard side of me right lander?

[island14]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I recall $2.30 ish. This mean's YOU are older than me.

55 now.

About age 13, maybe around 1972 working at a car wash.

They may have had an outdated sign on the wall so they could pay less...

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

55 now.

51 in March.

Neighborhood grocery store for me. 15 years old.

[VatorMan]

The only way the minimum wage thing works is to ensure that businesses only hire citizens. As long as there is no enforcement of who the business employs, raising the minimum wage will only encourage MORE employers to skirt the law and hire illegals.

[island14]

Originally Posted by NeedSpeed

They work cheap right?

They do here.

Best Paying Jobs in Philippines| Salary Comparison

Example top paying job and low on this list at 40/1 exchange to the US dollar

[1] Pilot (Airlines / Aviation / Aerospace / Defense) 259,620 PHP

$6490.50 per year

[187] Clerk (Administration / Reception / Secretarial) 6,000 PHP

$150 per year.

Imagine the low pay jobs now...

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by island14

They do here.

Best Paying Jobs in Philippines| Salary Comparison

Example top paying job and low on this list at 40/1 exchange to the US dollar

[1] Pilot (Airlines / Aviation / Aerospace / Defense) 259,620 PHP

$6490.50 per year

[187] Clerk (Administration / Reception / Secretarial) 6,000 PHP

$150 per year.

Imagine the low pay jobs now...

My friend has relatives in Egypt. Extremely cheap there as well. He can put his in-laws in a 5 star hotel for like Motel 6 prices here

[DAB]

First job I had flipping burgers I was paid $3.30/hr. min was $3.10/hr. I was a baller.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by NeedSpeed

Are you saying, let the homeless die, it's their problem? Tell them to GTFO off my streets?

There has to be a line. I'm not saying I encourage entitlement. But I think at some level as a society, we're in it together.

Trust me, I paid enough taxes last year to pay someone minimum wage. I'm not happy about that. But, as a teacher, I've seen a lot people that just aren't gonna cut it, no matter what you do.

But, we should just eliminate them I guess.

Originally Posted by Thomas

Because WE, (That includes YOU) are a civilized society. Some people fall on hard times, some make incredibly poor decisions. Personally, I don't mind some of my tax dollars going to help the poor, underprivileged, and people who fall on hard times. But the tit that is Thomas isn't endless either. Thing's have gotten WAY outta hand.

I just don't understand the "Fuck 'em, let them rot" mentality.

What both of you are doing is failing to recognize there is a difference between Society and government.

Do I believe it is my responsibility to help those around me in need. Yes.
Do I believe it is the governments responsibility . HELL NO.

Why? Government is NOT about servicing people. It is about POWER. Pure and simple.

Recognize the difference. Look at what the "Great Society" has given us. Massive section of the population are alienated from main stream society by the government. Generations are doomed to living in high crime low hope areas simply due to the power politics of welfare.

[NeedSpeed]

Originally Posted by VITE1

What both of you are doing is failing to recognize there is a difference between Society and government.

Do I believe it is my responsibility to help those around me in need. Yes.
Do I believe it is the governments responsibility . HELL NO.

Why? Government is NOT about servicing people. It is about POWER. Pure and simple.

Recognize the difference. Look at what the "Great Society" has given us. Massive section of the population are alienated from main stream society by the government. Generations are doomed to living in high crime low hope areas simply due to the power politics of welfare.

Government has gotten out of control for sure. But no society exists without some form government.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by NeedSpeed

Government has gotten out of control for sure. But no society exists without some form government.

And no Society survives when it becomes dependent on government.

Government, per the constitution , is to be limited. Its role in the market place is to make sure that there is a level playing field. Nothing more.

It should not decide that stupid people who have kids they can't afford would get money. Nor should they reward businesses and individuals for making dumb investments.

[VITE1]

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I recall $2.30 ish. This mean's YOU are older than me.

$3.25 here You are both old farts

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Dixievet

$3.25 here You are both old farts

1.25 here.

I bet with Mrvette it was .05 That guy is OLD.

[island14]

Originally Posted by Dixievet

$3.25 here You are both old farts

I don't feel old, and only notice it when I look in a mirror

But my wife says she feels old, her birthday is this weekend, shes going to be 26.