GM and Chrysler - Romney is full of shit

[Joecooool]

Auto companies hit back against Romney ads – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Democrats on Tuesday ramped up their pressure on the Romney campaign over two new ads on the auto bailout, as each side sought to sway voters in the crucial battleground state of Ohio.

Spokespeople for Obama's re-election effort pointed to quotes from General Motors and Chrysler executives blasting Mitt Romney over a new round of ads that accuse the auto giants of shifting jobs overseas.

"The ad is cynical campaign politics at its worst," General Motors spokesman Greg Martin told The New York Times. "We think creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back in this country should be a source of bipartisan pride."

The Romney radio ad, which aired in Ohio Tuesday, claims GM plans to double the number of cars built in China and that Chrysler plans to start making Jeeps in the same country.

"Mitt Romney: He'll stand up for the auto industry in Ohio, not China," the ad's narrator concludes.

The ad follows a television spot released over the weekend, which makes the same argument and faced wide criticism in recent days for its accuracy.

"Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy and sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China," the television spot's narrator says.

Romney originally floated that idea at a rally in Defiance, Ohio last week. He quoted a report about the majority owner of Chrysler, Fiat, saying it was considering producing its signature Jeep in China.

However, the Bloomberg report to which Romney was apparently referring said that the potential move would only affect cars produced for Chinese consumers.

Chrysler Senior Vice President of Corporate Communications Gualberto Ranieri emphatically denied the possibility U.S. production would be affected, writing in an online posting, "Let's set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China."

The ad was rated "Pants on Fire" by the independent, fact-checking group PolitiFact.com. And former President Bill Clinton and Vice President Joe Biden on Monday tag teamed in their attacks against Romney over the ad.

The Romney campaign did not highlight their television ad–or Tuesday's radio ad–with a press release to reporters, as they have with nearly every other spot, but CNN's ad tracker Kantar Media CMAG, spotted the ad running on broadcast television stations in Toledo and Youngstown, Ohio – two Ohio manufacturing strongholds.

Martin, the GM representative, said Romney's ads show that the candidate is "bereft of any fundamental understanding of the global automotive industry.

"All global manufacturers, whether General Motors, Ford, Chrysler or VW, build historically in the markets in which we sell," he continued.

Romney's campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

[vetteman9368]

Gee an auto company owned by unions and the govt is in the bag for Obama, I'm shocked. What's not shocking is you posting it as if its based in reality.

[mrvette]

SO Romney is correct, jobs ARE leaving SLOHIO and that foul weather and going to the SE regions of USA with the influx of foreign brands and influence.....and opening up NEW plants making silly stuff, while the engines/trans/diffys are made overseas, there the engineers and tool guys are willing to work for MARKET wages, not this over inflated cost of living inspired crap that is not in the market today.....

so a decent house costs lets say 100k up there, taxes are 5 grand/year and so making that affordable the guy needs make X amount, which puts him in the UPPER income brackets for the nation.....YET he lives no better than the guys down south....

AND our businesses have to shift, meanwhile guys like Phil make money off some plant making .mil gear here in Jax Florida, or used to anyway.....


can't FIND a cheeper place to live than Jax Florida, period.....


I bet 90% of the workers in this town pay NO Federal INCOME taxes.....

[Loco Vette]

Obama's just as full of shit when it comes to autos:

A123 Declares Bankruptcy, Failure Could Be Bad For Obama
The battery maker received $249 million in loans from the Department of Energy



And if Johnson Controls sounds familiar, oh yeah, they got a bunch of money not to do shit either:

Al Gore has thrived as a green-tech investor

GIM also invested in Johnson Controls, a long-established Milwaukee company that in August 2009 won the largest award — $299 million — in a $2.4 billion program Obama had launched to help firms making electric car batteries.

Gore’s investment firm had earlier invested modestly in the company, then ramped up its holdings in late 2008 and held 5.6 million shares by 2009.

The grant to Johnson Controls was meant to help retrofit one plant and build another. But the company has dramatically scaled back, after executives concluded demand for electric cars was far lower than the administration forecast. The factory outfitted with stimulus funds is nearly idle, and plans to build a second plant have been postponed.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by Loco Vette

Obama's just as full of shit when it comes to autos:

A123 Declares Bankruptcy, Failure Could Be Bad For Obama
The battery maker received $249 million in loans from the Department of Energy



And if Johnson Controls sounds familiar, oh yeah, they got a bunch of money not to do shit either:

Al Gore has thrived as a green-tech investor

8% of green companies that received stimulus money went bankrupt, 22% of companies Bain invested in while Romney was in charge went bankrupt.

[Taurus]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

8% of green companies that received stimulus money went bankrupt, 22% of companies Bain invested in while Romney was in charge went bankrupt.

They would have all gone bankrupt most likely, that is the nature of venture capitalists, don't you get that? These companies asked for money because they needed it. In reality they saved 78%.

[Loco Vette]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

8% of green companies that received stimulus money went bankrupt, 22% of companies Bain invested in while Romney was in charge went bankrupt.

Didn't you say something in another thread about how critical citing a source was?

And even if true, there are at least two critical differences:

1. Stimulus has only been around for 3.5 years. More time, more of those economic diasters are going to capsize. Bain was run for a long time and specialized in taking on companies that were in trouble, by definition.

2. Bain Capital invested money entrusted to them by people who gave it to them willingly and trusted them to return on the investment. Stuimulus took taxpayer dollars or created future taxpayer obligations and flushed it down the toilets of Obama's chosen cronies.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

8% of green companies that received stimulus money went bankrupt, 22% of companies Bain invested in while Romney was in charge went bankrupt.

Romney's investors made money either way, Obama's investors lose money either way.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

22% of companies Bain invested in while Romney was in charge went bankrupt.

How many of them would have gone bankrupt WITHOUT Bain?



That's an absolutely ignorant argument... even by your standards.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

"All global manufacturers, whether General Motors, Ford, Chrysler or VW, build historically in the markets in which we sell," he continued.

Funny how that argument seems to be null and void when liberals are talking about other manufacturing companies (like the evil devil GE) that go overseas to produce products sold in those markets.

If GE does it, it is corporate greed but somehow if GM does it, it's ok.

That sound about right?

[SnikPlosskin]

Under Restructuring, GM To Build More Cars Overseas

The U.S. government is pouring billions into General Motors in hopes of reviving the domestic economy, but when the automaker completes its restructuring plan, many of the company's new jobs will be filled by workers overseas.

In the CEO's own words:

General Motors is becoming China Motors - YouTube

According to Akerson, GM now:

Makes almost 70 percent of its vehicles outside the US
Has more than 2,700 dealerships in China
Operates 11 assembly plants in China
Has 11 joint ventures in China with two Chinese government-controlled companies
Regards these joint ventures "as 11 keys to success."

Akerson added:
Our commitment to working in China, with China, for China, remains strong and focused on the future.

From GM:



jeez, why do I have to do all your research for you?

The true issue is that the government takes our money at the point of a gun and uses it to control the market (picking winners and losers). In the case of Bain Capital, investors knowingly and willingly risk their money to make a profit.

VERY different things.

So it is a fact that GM is heavily outsourcing manufacturing to China (and lots of other places). They are also expanding in the US. They also still owe the taxpayers a shit load of money - about $42 billion. So their expansion is being done on our backs without our consent (representation).

Seems like they should pay that money back before building new plants anywhere.

Romney's ads = selectively true.

Obama's entire term = hundreds of bald faced lies.

[The_Dude]

FactCheck.org : Romney Distorts Facts on Jeep, Auto Bailout

[Fasglas]

Originally Posted by Taurus

They would have all gone bankrupt most likely, that is the nature of venture capitalists, don't you get that? These companies asked for money because they needed it. In reality they saved 78%.

But, but, but... the "buzz words" lose their impact, when the FACTS are presented.

[SnikPlosskin]

Originally Posted by The_Dude

FactCheck.org : Romney Distorts Facts on Jeep, Auto Bailout

Unfortunately Factcheck.org is a left leaning source. Not credible. I prefer to get information from multiple sources including the horses mouth.

If you read fact checks article it is heavily partisan while splitting hairs.

If the question is "is GM increasing production in China?" the answer is "yes."

[mrvette]

Originally Posted by Thrakk

Unfortunately Factcheck.org is a left leaning source. Not credible. I prefer to get information from multiple sources including the horses mouth.

If you read fact checks article it is heavily partisan while splitting hairs.

If the question is "is GM increasing production in China?" the answer is "yes."

BeCAUSE there are what, over a BILLION Chinese to sell cars to, most of them do not HAVE cars,.....and China is buying up all the heavy equipment road building crap they can, because they are building FREEWAYS and highways at a furious pace, along with the rest of the world, they just a bit better at it.....OH, BTW, the commie party is still in power there, but as time goes by they are getting more and more freedom, and the absolute power is waning, as reality sets in ....and the old ideologues die off.....and the young engineers take over.....case in point, Hong Kong and Singapore are teaching Peking about economics and growth/power.....

SO GM has some forward thinking leaders, gee, I wonder why???

[The_Dude]

Originally Posted by Thrakk

Unfortunately Factcheck.org is a left leaning source. Not credible. I prefer to get information from multiple sources including the horses mouth.

If you read fact checks article it is heavily partisan while splitting hairs.

If the question is "is GM increasing production in China?" the answer is "yes."

That sounds like splitting hairs too.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by TxAg

So Factcheck.org is not "a left leaning source"?

Only an idiot would think that. They hit the left as hard as they hit the right.

FactCheck.org : Whoppers of 2012, Final Edition

[The_Dude]

Originally Posted by TxAg

So Factcheck.org is not "a left leaning source"?

I was referring to this:

Originally Posted by Thrakk

If the question is "is GM increasing production in China?" the answer is "yes."

While that is factually correct, the implication is that the jobs are being moved from the US.

[The_Dude]

Originally Posted by TxAg

If one slows down/stops production in the US and increases it elsewhere, wouldn't that be a logical conclusion?

I'm not sure there is cause and effect there.

[78SA]

No mention of GM selling factories in MI to the Chinese government owned company?