SWA passenger arrest .....

[BuckyThreadkiller]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Every flight I've been on in the past ten years, I turn my phone on as soon as the wheels touch the ground.

As do all the people around me.

There has never been a documented case of a cell phone interfering with a plane. Hell, I've left mine on by accident the whole flight before on more than one occasion with no issues.

Stupid shit.

Perhaps. But I fly SWA about 6 times a month, their policy is pretty simple and straight forward. All electronics are off - not standby, not airplane mode - just off, when the plane is below 10,000ft on take-off and landing. They are very clear on this during preflight announcements, it's in the inflight magazine and IIRC on the safety card. There's a cabin chime and announcement that tells you when you can turn them on and off in whatever non-phone mode you may have for ebooks, games or music.

Note the OP doesn't say they were on the ground it says they were landing, not landed. They do not have an issue with you firing it up once the wheels touch the ground.

[67 327/400]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Every flight I've been on in the past ten years, I turn my phone on as soon as the wheels touch the ground.

As do all the people around me.

There has never been a documented case of a cell phone interfering with a plane. Hell, I've left mine on by accident the whole flight before on more than one occasion with no issues.

Stupid shit.

Actually there is, I filed the paperwork myself with the FAA and airline when we had to pull off the runway to tell the passengers again to turn off their phones. I had to file it because we were cleared to take off, but had to pull off the runway.
As we were taxing, we kept getting the signal tone in our headset and each time we heard it, we received a "master warning" along with a indication that the two navigation computers were disagreeing with our current location.

Is the cell phone being on going to cause the plane to crash? no. Will it interfere with the instruments? Yes it will and it has.

[NB2K]

Look, we all know that flying commercial has become one the most painful experiences known to humankind.
Filthy airplanes, nasty people, rude and condescending passengers and FAs...

Why make it worse by being an a-hole?

[67 327/400]

Originally Posted by NB2K

Look, we all know that flying commercial has become one the most painful experiences known to humankind.
Filthy airplanes, nasty people, rude and condescending passengers and FAs...

Why make it worse by being an a-hole?

It's a combo of sense of entitlement and I know more than you.

[OddBall]

Originally Posted by Yerf Dog

If it was actually dangerous wouldn't terrorists just jump on a jet and leave their cell phones on during the flight?

Oh great. Now you've done it.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by 67 327/400

Actually there is, I filed the paperwork myself with the FAA and airline when we had to pull off the runway to tell the passengers again to turn off their phones. I had to file it because we were cleared to take off, but had to pull off the runway.
As we were taxing, we kept getting the signal tone in our headset and each time we heard it, we received a "master warning" along with a indication that the two navigation computers were disagreeing with our current location.

Is the cell phone being on going to cause the plane to crash? no. Will it interfere with the instruments? Yes it will and it has.

How do you know a cell phone caused that?

[LATB]

oh the tangled web we have woven.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by 67 327/400

It's a combo of sense of entitlement and I know more than you.

Exactly.

I think my job is important (at least to me), but if I'm that important I fly private.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by TxAg

Is how I read that the first time.

Hell, that would work, too.

Once.

[67 327/400]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

How do you know a cell phone caused that?

There is a distinct signal and tone that runs through our headsets when a cell phone is turned on, dialed or a text message is sent.
Pulled off the runway, told the flight attendants as to why, to which one replied that he finally turned it off and that he had been sending a text message.
It's amazing the power of the PA System.

[67 327/400]

Originally Posted by TxAg

Had to get the last text out before take off.

Make sure his booty call was ready when he landed.

Very important ya know.

I can completely understand, especially flying out of airports that run delayed more than other...letting your ride know you will actually be on time or late.
But from the pilot side, I'm not taking off if the navigational systems don't know where we are. Flying within 1,000ft of altitude separation of other airliners in extremely congested airspace, I'm not willing to risk my life on it.

[Bob CTS]

Originally Posted by 67 327/400

I can completely understand, especially flying out of airports that run delayed more than other...letting your ride know you will actually be on time or late.
But from the pilot side, I'm not taking off if the navigational systems don't know where we are. Flying within 1,000ft of altitude separation of other airliners in extremely congested airspace, I'm not willing to risk my life on it.

I appreciate your regard to passenger safety.

BTW did the FAA not recently do a study as to relaxing the electronics rule on take off and landing? Thought I remember something about but might have confused it with something else.

[67 327/400]

Originally Posted by Bob CTS

I appreciate your regard to passenger safety.

BTW did the FAA not recently do a study as to relaxing the electronics rule on take off and landing? Thought I remember something about but might have confused it with something else.

Not sure, I haven't heard anything about it. Usually we get a memo on it right as it's released.

[Bob CTS]

Originally Posted by 67 327/400

Not sure, I haven't heard anything about it. Usually we get a memo on it right as it's released.

I think it was awhile ago, heck the study might still be going on.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by 67 327/400

There is a distinct signal and tone that runs through our headsets when a cell phone is turned on, dialed or a text message is sent.
Pulled off the runway, told the flight attendants as to why, to which one replied that he finally turned it off and that he had been sending a text message.
It's amazing the power of the PA System.

I'm a pilot and I use to be an air traffic controller. You stating this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say definitively that the cell phone caused this kind of issue

So something weird happened with the headset. A flight attendant finds a cell phone is left on. She tells the passenger to turn it off and the interference goes away. Is there any way to prove that the cell phone was the cause of the interference? No. Unusual noises and tones flow through headsets all the time and almost always go away, so to say the cause was a cell phone left on may be a bit of a stretch.

[MattW]

Phil, I don't travel nearly as much as you - I fly once a month, average - and I never, ever, EVER forget to turn off my phones before takeoff. Yes, phones - I keep two when I'm traveling for business.

Time to check yourself for early-onset dementia

[67 327/400]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

I'm a pilot and I use to be an air traffic controller. You stating this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say definitively that the cell phone caused this kind of issue

So something weird happened with the headset. A flight attendant finds a cell phone is left on. She tells the passenger to turn it off and the interference goes away. Is there any way to prove that the cell phone was the cause of the interference? No. Unusual noises and tones flow through headsets all the time and almost always go away, so to say the cause was a cell phone left on may be a bit of a stretch.

Ok you win, you know it all.
Remind me again, how many hours of airline flying do you have?

Originally Posted by Bob CTS

I think it was awhile ago, heck the study might still be going on.

They're always studying this. My friend is a mechanic on a King Air 200 that Motorola uses solely for testing, especially cell phone interference signals.

[Zed16]

Originally Posted by TxAg

But that's what gets me. After a certain amount of time after takeoff and before landing, you hear the announcment "you may now use approved electronic devices" (which are usually laptops, tablets, mp3 players, dvd players, etc...).

So what happens with those devices at the time of takeoff and landing that doesn't happen during flight that makes them dangerous? That's the part I don't understand.


FYI, I 100% agree the dork in the article should have just turned off his phone when asked unless he had a VERY legit reason (ie. family emergency, medical emergency, etc...) for not doing it. I doubt it was a VERY legit reason.

Originally Posted by Kevin_73

I really don't know for sure, but I suspect the reasoning is that if there is an issue with an electronic device causing a problem with the aircraft there would be time to deal with it safely when the plane is at altitude and cruising speed. During takeoff and landing the plane is at low altitude, low airspeed, and is maneuvering. That leaves very little margin for dealing with possible electronic problems.

Originally Posted by Joecooool

I'm a pilot and I use to be an air traffic controller. You stating this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say definitively that the cell phone caused this kind of issue

So something weird happened with the headset. A flight attendant finds a cell phone is left on. She tells the passenger to turn it off and the interference goes away. Is there any way to prove that the cell phone was the cause of the interference? No. Unusual noises and tones flow through headsets all the time and almost always go away, so to say the cause was a cell phone left on may be a bit of a stretch.

The short answer is that there can be an ElectroMagnetic Interference (EMI) with the Instrument Landing System (ILS). A sympathy harmonic frequency can occur across the same frequencies used by ILS. Above 10K, it doesn't matter.

Separately, there have been circumstances of interference with flight control systems - usually on older aircraft that have less EMI shielding in the wiring harnesses. This has not been proven, but anecdotal stories continue. In a world of digital flight controls, this shouldn't be an issue.

So you might ask, can't we overcome these relatively straightforward technical issues? Yes, but no one wants to pay or more importantly, take on the liability of certifying that there is no issue. It much easier to continue having people turn cell phones off.

Back to your regularly scheduled crap....

[Allan]

14 Code of Federal Regualtions (CFR)


§ 91.21 Portable electronic devices.(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:

(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or

(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Portable voice recorders;

(2) Hearing aids;

(3) Heart pacemakers;

(4) Electric shavers; or

(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.

(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.


§ 135.144 Portable electronic devices.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Portable voice recorders;

(2) Hearing aids;

(3) Heart pacemakers;

(4) Electric shavers; or

(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.

(c). The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used.


NOTE - THIS IS ADMINISTRATIVE - NOT CRIMINAL.
Unable to locate the penalty for a violation of the above Administrative Regulations.

Title 18 U.S. Code, Chapter 2 - Aircraft & Motor Vehicles is the criminal statutes. Unable to locate any specific criminal violation.

[Sea Six]

Y'all don't mind JoeCooool.

He just pulls random crap out of his ass and states it (very authoritatively) as fact whenever he hears something contrary to the way he thinks things ought to be.

He has made an online career out of doing this here and at the other place.

You can spot these because he paints with a brush broad enough to include our entire solar system.