Zimmerman - you guys SUCK!!

[Jay13]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Jay, Nancy Grace was on a few nights ago going off on George Zimmerman's gun. She had a "firearm expert" on who said that his Kel-Tec PF9 did not have an external safety. Earlier she had been saying "Why did he have a loaded gun in his waistband with the safety deactivated?" When he told her the gun did not have an external safety, she said (paraphrase) "Look, I don't know everything but you can't sit there and tell me that a Kel-Tec PF9 doesn't have a safety when I know perfectly well that it does. Get off my show, liar."

Of course, the Kel-Tec PF9 is like many small CCW class pistols, it does not have an external safety but instead relies on a very long trigger pull and has internal safeties to keep the gun from going off if dropped, etc.

That was one of the segments that had me in fits. I happen to own a PF-9. The correct answer by the "expert" was that Zimmerman is pleading self defense, not accidental discharge. This, whether the gun had a safety or whether it was engaged is not relevant.

GRACE: You know, that`s an interesting question. And joining me here tonight on behalf of George Zimmerman is a long-time friend of Zimmerman`s, Frank Taaffe. Frank, I`m going to throw that question to you.

FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Sure. The Keltec 9 has an extra-long trigger on it, which is almost a safety built into itself. The pull or torque that`s necessary...

GRACE: Wait. A safety built into itself?

TAAFFE: Is a safety built into the trigger. And as John Guy stated in his opening statement, on that particular gun, the Keltec 9, the actual -- there is an internal safety which under optimum conditions, you want to go ahead and not leave it on. So the safety is built into the trigger itself.

GRACE: Isn`t there another safety on there?

TAAFFE: There are two safeties. You`re correct. But the one that`s used the most...

GRACE: And the second safety was not on?

TAAFFE: That`s correct.

GRACE: Taaffe, you know what? I like you. I really do, in a weird way.

TAAFFE: I appreciate that.

GRACE: But Mr. Taaffe, do not try to get it over on me. I know a Keltec 9 has a safety. So don`t try to tell me some internal safety was on but the real safety was off. I don`t...

TAAFFE: John Guy -- these are John Guy`s words. I`m taking it right from the assistant state attorney. It has two safeties.

GRACE: Yes. You are trying to lead us all on that there -- no, I dragged that out of you. Listen, I`m not a dentist, but I can pull a tooth, sir. There was a safety...

TAAFFE: Sometimes without anesthesia.

GRACE: ... an extrinsic safety, and he had it off. So he was out walking his dog, you told me out walking his Rottweiler that night. May I ask you a question?

TAAFFE: Not that night. Yes?

GRACE: He was not walking his dog that night, correct, or was walking his dog?

TAAFFE: No, he was on his way out to Target to pick up groceries for lunch for the week. And lo and behold, he saw Trayvon up in my yard.

GRACE: May I ask you, why did he need a gun, loaded, without the safety on, to what, go to Publix?

TAAFFE: The safety was on. The Keltec 9 -- he was going to Target. The Keltec 9 -- let me reiterate. The Keltec 9 has a safety mechanism built into the trigger itself. These are John Guy`s words. And you can Google it. You can look it up. I`m just sharing what I -- what I heard from John Guy.

GRACE: Frank, the external safety was not on, all right?

TAAFFE: No, the external safety was not on.

GRACE: That`s my question.

TAAFFE: There`s a built-in safety in the trigger. There`s a built-in safety in the trigger. It`s an extra-long pull. Most automatics have a shorter pull on the trigger. The Keltec 9 had an extra-long pull, which is almost -- acts like a safety within the mechanism itself.

GRACE: Mr. Taaffe, let me rephrase my question.

TAAFFE: Yes? OK.

GRACE: Why would your friend, George Zimmerman, have to carry a Keltec 9 with the external safety off, with a live round in the chamber to go to Target?

TAAFFE: He had a concealed weapons permit, which allows him to carry a weapon into certain venues and into not certain venues. So it was his 2nd Amendment right to carry that weapon.

GRACE: Right. I`m very familiar with the Constitution. I`m going to ask you again. Why did he feel he needed to take a gun loaded with live ammo to Target?

TAAFFE: I can`t answer that. You have to ask him that.

Truth be told - they were both wrong. There is no external safety, but no realistic possibility of accidental discharge. I think what she was getting as was the implication that Zimmerman was out looking to kill. If that is a reasonable inference from owning a PF-9, I'll never carry mine again.

[Cybercowboy]

I just read part of the transcript, I never actually watch any of that shit.

[99 pewtercoupe]

Three shotguns...500 plus rounds of 12 ga 00. Bring it

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Sea Six

Zimmerman has to articulate that he was in fear for his life or great bodily injury in order to justify the use of deadly force in self defense. His wounds only bolster his claim.

[Testimony] I feared for my life. I aimed center of mass. [/Testimony]

[Hoog]

Originally Posted by Sea Six

Zimmerman has to articulate that he was in fear for his life or great bodily injury in order to justify the use of deadly force in self defense. His wounds only bolster his claim.

Lord knows I'm not a lawyer, but I think it is the burden of the state to show beynd a reasonable doubt he was in a "depraved mind" (I think that's the term) that night to prove 2nd degree murder. GZ doesn't have to prove shit. If they can't do that, the shooting is deemed "self defense" and he is then exempt from any civil actions against him from TM's family. At least Florida got that right.

I'm not sure about the manslaughter 2 lesser included.

Somebody edjucate me...

[Stangkiller]

Does anybody know what time the trial starts?

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by Hoog

Lord knows I'm not a lawyer, but I think it is the burden of the state to show beynd a reasonable doubt he was in a "depraved mind" (I think that's the term) that night to prove 2nd degree murder. GZ doesn't have to prove shit. If they can't do that, the shooting is deemed "self defense" and he is then exempt from any civil actions against him from TM's family. At least Florida got that right.

I'm not sure about the manslaughter 2 lesser included.

Somebody edjucate me...

I believe that has to come out of a separate "Stand Your Ground" ruling, which Zimmerman did not pursue for some reason I do not understand.

I think he's going to get sued in civil court when this is over.

[Mike Mercury]

from Breitbart.com:

NBC News manipulated tape of Zimmerman's 911 call to make it seem that Zimmerman had targeted Martin because he was black, rather than responding to 911 dispatcher questions.

CNN also isolated audio of Zimmerman purportedly calling Martin a racial slur during the call -- an allegation that ended up being completely false.

Both ABC News and NBC News also alleged that Zimmerman's injuries did not exist, releasing badly-pixellated photographs from the night of the incident. As trial testimony has shown, Zimmerman was indeed injured during the incident with Martin.

although these "news" hope we forget... it's always a good thing to be reminded of their bias.

[Mike Mercury]

Originally Posted by Chris Fowler

I believe that has to come out of a separate "Stand Your Ground" ruling, which Zimmerman did not pursue for some reason I do not understand.

that's because he didn't "stand his ground" in this case. Instead, he walked-off from the initial following of the suspicious suspect.... and then was confronted.

It wasn't a stand-your-ground type of confrontation.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Mike Mercury

that's because he didn't "stand his ground" in this case. Instead, he walked-off from the initial following of the suspicious suspect.... and then was confronted.

It wasn't a stand-your-ground type of confrontation.

Stand your ground can apply. They just declined to have a separate trial.

[...Whitepower...]

Originally Posted by Chris Fowler

I believe that has to come out of a separate "Stand Your Ground" ruling, which Zimmerman did not pursue for some reason I do not understand.

I think he's going to get sued in civil court when this is over.

My guess is because he was told not to pursue and he did anyway after being advised not to.

[jaxgator]

Originally Posted by ...Whitepower...

My guess is because he was told not to pursue and he did anyway after being advised not to.

Incorrect. When told not to pursue, GZ walked back to his truck. TM followed and when GZ turned around to get in his truck, TM punched him in the nose.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by ...Whitepower...

My guess is because he was told not to pursue and he did anyway after being advised not to.

The same person that asked him not to pursue, asked him several times if he could see TM and what he was doing. On top of that, the person telling him not to pursue has no authority. And lastly, simply watching somebody on the public grounds of a community is not illegal.

The first law broken was TM jumping Zimmerman.

[Cybercowboy]

Originally Posted by Chris Fowler

I believe that has to come out of a separate "Stand Your Ground" ruling, which Zimmerman did not pursue for some reason I do not understand.

I think he's going to get sued in civil court when this is over.

Zimmerman waived his right to have the SYG hearing pre-trial. After the trial, assuming he is acquitted on the murder 2 charge, he can request a SYG hearing in order to get civil immunity. However, the SYG hearing requires a positive defense, that is, he has to prove his innocence.

[Doug28450]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

Does anybody know what time the trial starts?

It started last week.

[onedef92]

I think he's going to get sued in civil court when this is over.

I can practically guranfeckintee he is.

[Cybercowboy]

Originally Posted by ...Whitepower...

My guess is because he was told not to pursue and he did anyway after being advised not to.

I am SO SICK of hearing this OVER and OVER again. It's a falsehood.

1. The NEN operator testified last Monday. He said that not only did he not request Zimmerman to "not pursue", he CAN'T! They won't let him order courses of action because it makes them liable!

2. The NEN operator did ask "Can you keep an eye on him?" Now you see, this is the kind of "order" the operator makes, suggestions.

3. The NEN operator asked for a street address. It was while looking for that street address that Zimmerman says Trayvon jumped out of some bushes in the shadows and the confrontation began.

4. The NEN operator never told Zimmerman to remain in his vehicle because, as he testified, he didn't EVEN KNOW Zimmerman was in a vehicle!

5. Zimmerman never "pursued" Martin. He kept an eye on him. As he stated in his numerous police interviews, he had no interest in pursuing and confronting or detaining Martin. Quite the opposite. He was quite content to meet the police and say "He was over there last I saw him."

Yes, I know that if you watch HLN or CNN or MSNBC or ABC or CBS you'll hear that he was told to not pursue but disregarded a direct order from the 911 operator and pursued and confronted Martin, who was just trying to get a snack to his 12-year-old brother who was really a 14-year-old non-relation.

[Mike Mercury]

Originally Posted by ...Whitepower...

My guess is because he was told not to pursue and he did anyway after being advised not to.

Dude; why are you saying that???

It's flat-out false.

[Cybercowboy]

Oh wow! Officer Serino just now on the stand testifies that he found a slim jim in the bushes that Zimmerman says Martin was hiding in just prior to jumping out and asking "You got a problem with me?"

A slim jim? Hmmmm...

[Doug28450]

Martin was going to beat Zimmerman with a beef jerky?