Where are the moderate Muslims?

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by TxAg

But what is a "real" Muslim?

The extremists or those who are not?

IMHO the extremists are about as "real" Muslims as the Westboro Baptist Church scumbags are "real" Christians.

That's an accurate comparison. now imagine that there are 10s of MILLIONS of Westboro Baptists all around you.

[Cybercowboy]

Btw I'm very tolerant. Twice as tolerant as I should be, half as tolerant as a Canadian I will admit that they are quite tolerant.

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by TxAg

I would look to escape to someplace there weren't.

But if I did, would I be rightfully put into that group of scumbags?

Now do I think we need to let in a boatload of refugees? No.

We've seen in Europe what happens with that plan.

However that doesn't mean I'm going to group everyone of one group into the same boat.

Condemn the whole group all you want, but I as I've gotten older I do my best to judge people by the content of their character.

Am I perfect? Ha! Far from it. But I'll keep trying.

Just my .02. YMMV.

Did you really think about what I posted? Although I'm not saying that we should condemn any group because of a few bad actors, that doesn't appear to be the case here.

There are approx. 1.6 Billion Muslims in the World. While surely there must be some who are moderate, how many? What percentage? If there are Muslims who condemn terrorism, show me a video of them. Can you find even one? Even if could find just one, that's hardly just a few and won't even register on the percentage scale.

Muslims believe that all non-Muslims are infidels and should be killed. Can you show me some or even one who doesn't believe that? I know of only one who claims to be a Muslim and who says that he is against terrorism. But he says he was not allowed to speak at his Temple.

Do you remember the videos of Muslims after 9/11 celebrating the attack and doing that tongue trill?:

VIDEO PROOF Muslims dancing & celebrating after hearing about 9/11 (CNN news) ACTUAL NEWS FOOTAGE - YouTube

Remember that the Muslims in the video weren't the terrorists who participated in 9/11. (If they were they'd be dead.)

I'm saying that all Christians shouldn't be condemned because a very few are KKK members. But what if almost all Christians belonged to the KKK? Would you still not condemn them?

[DAB]

no such thing.

the violent muslim believe they are the only true muslims, and if you are not part of their action, or at least support it, then they consider you to be apostate muslims who are just as bad as Jews and Christians - infidels that need to be either converted or who need to die.

and just because someone calls themself a muslim, a Jew, or a Christian, does not truly make them one. watch their words and their actions and then judge them against what their standard is.

and know this: the only sure way to heaven for a muslim is by dying while waging jihad. their allah is unknowable to them, you are never quite sure if you have kept the faith properly. there is no amount of prayers, no amount of good works and alms, no amount of pilgrimage to Mecca that will assure them of entry to heaven.

I only know a little about Jew's view of heaven, so I can't speak to that with authority.

For Christians, entry to heaven does not depend on doing some amount of works, saying a number of prayers, attending church a certain number of times. Salvation for a Christian depends solely on believing that Jesus died to wipe away sins.

so if you want to change the actions of muslims, you need to change what they believe. lots of luck.

[Iron Chef]

Originally Posted by DAB

I only know a little about Jew's view of heaven, so I can't speak to that with authority.

Jews get a free pass. We're the chosen people. Heaven for us is a nonstop stream of alcohol, reservations at the best restaurants and transatlantic cruises.

It's good to be in the tribe.

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by Iron Chef

Jews get a free pass. We're the chosen people. Heaven for us is a nonstop stream of alcohol, reservations at the best restaurants and transatlantic cruises.

It's good to be in the tribe.

I believe that's true....

[DAB]

Originally Posted by Iron Chef

Jews get a free pass. We're the chosen people. Heaven for us is a nonstop stream of alcohol, reservations at the best restaurants and transatlantic cruises.

It's good to be in the tribe.

i was hoping you would enlighten us.

shalom.

[lspencer534]

Originally Posted by TxAg

And yet it does appear to be the case.



I have no idea.

Let's turn the question around, do you have a specific number of how many are "radical"?




You can't find any?

Your assertion is using Google there is not one instance found?



Ah so you can find at last one and you show one of the more mild repercussions of doing so.

But you keep moving the goal post to justify your view.

First just one.
Then some.
Then enough to register a percentage.

What's the "magic" number that would satisfy your desire to condemn all/most Muslims?




So is it you assertion every or most Muslims on planet earth is a radical who shares this belief and reaction?



So what is the percentage of Muslims that are "radical"?
Your assertion is over 50% so what's the number?

Your argument doesn't hold water. Try to understand this one fact: Muslims believe in Sharia law. Asking a Muslim to stop believing in Sharia is like asking him/her to stop practicing her religion. It is a blatant attack on religious liberty.

Sharia is drawn from two main sources ― the Quran, Islam’s holy book, and the Sunnah, or the example set by the Prophet Muhammad. It encompasses both a personal moral code and a religious law.

Many religions have legal codes that offer ethical and moral guidelines for practitioners of the faith―from the canon law of the Catholic Church to Jewish religious rules and practices, called Halakhah.

But unlike other legal codes of religions, Shira calls for murder, stoning, and dismemberment. If a Muslim becomes a non-Muslim then he/she must be killed, just like all non-Muslims. All homosexuals must be killed. An adulteress must be stoned Thieves must have a hand or hands cut off.

I am not saying that all Muslims are practicing terrorists...but I am saying that the ones who don't practice terrorism believe in/support it. That, IMO, is radical.

Before you look for a chink in the armor, I specifically said Muslims, not pretend Muslims.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by lspencer534

Your argument doesn't hold water. Try to understand this one fact: Muslims believe in Sharia law. Asking a Muslim to stop believing in Sharia is like asking him/her to stop practicing her religion. It is a blatant attack on religious liberty.

Sharia is drawn from two main sources ― the Quran, Islam’s holy book, and the Sunnah, or the example set by the Prophet Muhammad. It encompasses both a personal moral code and a religious law.

Many religions have legal codes that offer ethical and moral guidelines for practitioners of the faith―from the canon law of the Catholic Church to Jewish religious rules and practices, called Halakhah.

But unlike other legal codes of religions, Shira calls for murder, stoning, and dismemberment. If a Muslim becomes a non-Muslim then he/she must be killed, just like all non-Muslims. All homosexuals must be killed. An adulteress must be stoned Thieves must have a hand or hands cut off.

I am not saying that all Muslims are practicing terrorists...but I am saying that the ones who don't practice terrorism believe in/support it. That, IMO, is radical.

Before you look for a chink in the armor, I specifically said Muslims, not pretend Muslims.

the problem with politicians and others who ask "why have the terrorists corrupted islam?" is that it's the wrong question.

if you ask a muslim terrorist, you will find out that they believe they are the only true muslims, the "moderate" ones have abandoned islam in their view. they believe they only they are truly living out what the koran commands

do a search for andy mccarthy, prosecutor of khalid sheikh mohommed (spelling?). he thought the guy was nuts, so he did his own research before the trial, and found out that he, and others we label islamic terrorists, were exactly following what the koran says. fully.

so as i noted above, if you want to change their behavior, you need to change what they believe.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by TxAg

I would look to escape to someplace there weren't.

But if I did, would I be rightfully put into that group of scumbags?

Now do I think we need to let in a boatload of refugees? No.

We've seen in Europe what happens with that plan.

However that doesn't mean I'm going to group everyone of one group into the same boat.

Condemn the whole group all you want, but I as I've gotten older I do my best to judge people by the content of their character.

Am I perfect? Ha! Far from it. But I'll keep trying.

Just my .02. YMMV.

I know what you are saying but I have to consider, when compassion starts to creep in, that these are people who can justify ANY behavior for the end game. They can be your best friend, drinking buddy, even eat pork if it offers an advantage in their goal. You cannot POSSIBLY tell the good from the bad because they work very hard at looking like the good. I cannot look at an ant pile and pick out only the ones that will bite me. Wipe out the mound, remove all doubt.

There is not a single muslim remaining in the middle east that does not already comprehend that the US contemplates their demise hour by hour. That is an understanding they have. They are still there. They get it, they accept it. Maybe they didn't get it when the shit first hit the fan, but since Reagan, they are very clear.

They will be casualties of war. Decades to leave and they didn't. I'm sorry, they are going to be victims. If it means we AREN'T their victims, I am happy with that. I cannot care about a fellow man that does not care about me.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by TxAg

But what is a "real" Muslim?

The extremists or those who are not?

IMHO the extremists are about as "real" Muslims as the Westboro Baptist Church scumbags are "real" Christians.

Why don't you look at the history of Islamic growth and get the answer yourself. As they become more dominant in a society they become more Extreme. Always.

In order to be a REAL muslim you must accept the Quran AS IS. No exceptions. And most of the "Peace and love" stuff in the Quran is abrogated by the violence and in tolerance of the newer verses.

[VITE1]

Former Muslims United | Exposing the Myth of Moderate Islam

5 Inconvenient Truths Bust the Myth About Moderate Muslims — Hoc Est Bellum - Truth Will Out


https://sites.google.com/site/islami...oderate-muslim

And the best one yet

A top Shariah lawyer’s stunning response to the question: ‘Is there such a thing as moderate Islam?’ – TheBlaze

But it was in response to a question on whether there is such a thing as moderate Islam that Mr. Akbari, a man who studied at the seat of Shia religious learning at the Tehran University School of Law, and specialized in criminal and family law before leaving Iran, gave perhaps his most stunning response of all, stating:



[sharequote align=”center”]”[T]hese people…deceive Americans not to resist the process of Islam” [/sharequote]

What Erdogan, the Prime Minister of Turkey says is actually perfect and totally Islamic because Islam is Islam. We don’t have such a thing like — “radical Islam extremism” — many things that are said in Islam like beheading, like stoning, like flogging — they are not extremism acts, those are pure Islam.

…The second thing is, this is not “extremism,” this is “fundamentalism.” People who believe in [the] Koran understand it and practice it and take it serious.

About moderate Muslims, we have to…make a distinction between those people who come from Islamic backgrounds, come from [the] Middle East, their names are ‘Mohammed’…they might not believe in [the] Koran at all. They might just be atheists. They just come from that region.

[thefatguy]

ummmm.............along the lines of foxworthy's "you might be a redneck"...

if you can fly a plane but cant land it-you might be a muslim.

if you think a woman that gets raped should be stoned to death-
you might be a muslim.

if you worship a pedophile but think gays are degraded weirdos and
should be thrown off buildings-you might be a muslim.

if you consider the lingerie section of the sears catalog to be
evil pornography, but are "OK" with "marrying" a 6 yr old,
repeatedly raping and then killing her-you might be a muslim.

[thefatguy]

Originally Posted by Waco

I guess we should start quoting every violent religion...it's nearly all of them.


Also: You're not going to believe what I'm about to tell you - The Oatmeal

i know of no other religion that directly says
in so many places and so many ways to kill anyone
that refuses to be like you.

and islam isnt a religion, its a multi faceted cult-
death cult.
rape cult.
pedophilic cult.

if you think otherwise then you are at best naive
and at worst a fool.

for the record--my last name is ABDUL and i am part
turkish, so believe me i know what im talking about.

[Sea Six]

Originally Posted by thefatguy

They left out Muslims don't like Muslims.

[thefatguy]

Originally Posted by Waco

Call me a naive fool then. I must know too many moderate Muslims. I work with them on a daily basis.

no need for that- youve done a perfectly fine job
showing us yourself.

you "work" with muslims? i GREW UP surrounded by
that hypocritical pedophilic death cult. i didnt see
someone on their best false fronted behavior for a
few hours a day- i saw, heard, and experienced firsthand-
not hearsay or "i think this because blah blah blah"- but
the real deal 24/7, for the first decade of my life.

if you have a mother, a wife, or daughters and you think
islam is cool, then you my friend are EXACTLY the problem
with society today.

its ok to have your own opinion, even if its the dumbest
thing anyone else has heard. its not ok to make up your
own facts, and as a great man (churchill i believe) once said
"the only thing evil men need to succeed is for good men to
stand by and do nothing".

a civilized person being ok with islam is like a black person
supporting slavery.

[boracayjohnny]

Originally Posted by thefatguy

no need for that- youve done a perfectly fine job
showing us yourself.

you "work" with muslims? i GREW UP surrounded by
that hypocritical pedophilic death cult. i didnt see
someone on their best false fronted behavior for a
few hours a day- i saw, heard, and experienced firsthand-
not hearsay or "i think this because blah blah blah"- but
the real deal 24/7, for the first decade of my life.

if you have a mother, a wife, or daughters and you think
islam is cool, then you my friend are EXACTLY the problem
with society today.

its ok to have your own opinion, even if its the dumbest
thing anyone else has heard. its not ok to make up your
own facts, and as a great man (churchill i believe) once said
"the only thing evil men need to succeed is for good men to
stand by and do nothing".

a civilized person being ok with islam is like a black person
supporting slavery.

I quoted this because it's a first person account. I've visited several Muslim countries and even interacted with locals while there. The biggest thing I can say of my overall experience is WTF. It's a bunch of backwards ass people that follow caveman like rules. Meanwhile, back at the ranch and the party, the Muslims will come to your compound, drink booze with you, talk shit about other Muslims, and then put their Muslim game face back on when they leave. Shit's crazy, mannnnnnnn.

[DAB]

fascinating book i just finished reading:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/19...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Bill]

[thefatguy]

Originally Posted by Waco

I'm not okay with radical Muslims. I don't care what people choose to believe if they don't bother anyone else about it.

so youre cool with the fact their religion
allows them--even encourages them- to
rape then kill someone elses 6 year old
daughter, as long as its not your own?

i will NEVER be ok with that- and yes that
is what the entire belief system is based upon.

its a FACT that it is a mysoginistic, pedophilic
death cult. and anyone who believes in it is
saying they agree with its teachings.

i am not, and will not ever be ok with someone
else believing in that-even if they arent "bothering"
me about it at the moment.