The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Aerovette]

I've not been part of the car pricing exchange that has gone on here, but it really is simple. Put the price on the car. Customer buys it, or does not. I don't need to know what each option costs. IDGAS. I either want the clear coat protection, or I don't. I'd like to know what options are on the vehicle, but what they cost is meaningless.

What I don't like is the bullshit airlines, tire stores, concert ticket sellers, and everyone else does, of selling you something that is $100.00 and paying $300.00 by the time they add their bullshit on. Just say it's $300.00 and be done with it.

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by LATB

And that is exactly what car dealers do. Why is it ok for you but not for them?

Its okay for either of them to charge whatever they want. Nobody is forced to buy the car or rent the house. Anyone who disagrees is absolutely no Libertarian. "Fair market value" or ten times, "fair market value." Makes no difference. Niether is immoral or gouging.

Reminds me of when the C8 first came out and soo many people were butthurt about markups. It just meant there were people willing to pay more for the car than them, but they wanted it and wern't willing to pay as much as the next guy so they were butthurt. They thought somehow they should get to buy the car for their price ahead of people willing to pay more. Such a selfish, narrow minded view.

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If you CREATE a shortage so that you can sell your item for more is unethical and wrong. The supply shortage on toilet paper was CREATED.

Gov't created the shortage.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I will charge whatever fair market rent in my area is for a home of that size/bedrooms.

So is "fair" the most someone is willing to pay or the least?

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

Gov't created the shortage.



So is "fair" the most someone is willing to pay or the least?

Checkmate. Again.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by ptindall

Anyone who disagrees is absolutely no Libertarian.

This guy is about as much of a Libertarian (or libertarian) as Stalin.

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

What I don't like is the bullshit airlines, tire stores, concert ticket sellers, and everyone else does, of selling you something that is $100.00 and paying $300.00 by the time they add their bullshit on. Just say it's $300.00 and be done with it.

I don't care for that marketing strategy either. But apparently enough people are OK with it for it to continue.

You are aware of all the potential add-ons yet you still want a law to protect you from it. I don't get it.

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I'd prefer that the seller just get their ass kicked and left bloody by the roadside, but there's probably no legal precedent for that.

Oh, but there is. Every Communist revolution.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

You are 100% free to tell him to **** a broken brick. I would too. But somebody isn't.

Locking people down and telling them to not go to work is what created the TP crisis. The hoarders were reacting to it.

And since the strawmen are coming out to play, yes, your hunger level should be a consideration in what you are willing to pay for food (but you are under no obligation to disclose). You and GSC3 want mommy to protect you from the bad man.

You're still NOT getting it.

One day, one day, I you may be put in a position that will illustrate my point.

Again, I'm sure you were disappointed that insulin prices dropped. People should have just done without.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Kevin68

I don't care for that marketing strategy either. But apparently enough people are OK with it for it to continue.

You are aware of all the potential add-ons yet you still want a law to protect you from it. I don't get it.

What law? WTF did I say anything about the LAW? FFS, read what I type, not what you THINK I'm typing.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Their website only showed MSRP, not sales price. The only price on their website said: $48000 MSRP. No sales price was listed on any of their vehicles. All that it showed was MSRP.
Again, all that was done to get people into the door so that they can use their sleazy sales game on them. Unfortunately, too many people get bamboozled by sales people.

Sleazy? Bamboozled?

Absolutely every penny needs to be accounted for an an automobile bill of sale. This is required in every state and is signed by the customer. The Truth in Lending Act requires lenders to disclose information about all charges and fees associated with a loan. That paper that accounts for every penny of an auto loan including any fees associated with it and is signed by the customer if a loan is part of the deal.

If you get "bamboozled" by someone who is quite literally explaining where every penny of a deal comes from and why it's there, you're an absolute f**king idiot.

Libertarian.

[Aerovette]

Such trust and a Utopian view of pricing practices.

Sure, it's all fine and on the up and up. It is what it is right? May as well vote for fkn Joe Biden since market values are what they are. Why would we want Trump to fk it all up by halting inflation. Fk inflation. That's the FREE MARKET, baby !!

I'm laughing that no one believes there is any such thing as price gouging.

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

What law? WTF did I say anything about the LAW? FFS, read what I type, not what you THINK I'm typing.

Yeah, come on Kevin, read what Aero types. He doesn't want any new laws, he just wants to assault and murder people!

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Sure, it's all fine and on the up and up. It is what it is right? May as well vote for fkn Joe Biden since market values are what they are. Why would we want Trump to fk it all up by halting inflation. Fk inflation. That's the FREE MARKET, baby !!

...

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by ptindall

...

Does not apply to my statement. My point is that inflation is not even on the table or up for discussion in a Biden/Trump comparison.

The prices we see are what the free market dictates. Joe is a fkn free market hero ! Look what he has accomplished !

I was paying a measly $1.39 for gas but now the market says gas is $3.09 a gallon...because "Merica" and free market !!

Eggs were 99 cents a dozen, but thankfully, the free market has gifted me with the ability to pay $4.00 or more for a dozen eggs. Fk, I'm feeling more patriotic by the minute.

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

What's wrong with requiring to list the price that anyone will qualify for?

They can add all the conditional discounts in the description instead of the other way around?

That's not anti free market. That's protecting customers from being misled.

Example:

Total vehicle price before sales tax: $49000 (this is the number that should be required to come up in any autotrader/cars.com etc. etc. search

Break down:
Vehicle price: $47000 Excessive profit or not?
Dealer add ons: $1500 for what, and for what profit
Dealer Fee: $1000 for what?
Destination charge: $1500But the car was made in a factory 5 miles away

Less Discount applicable to all:
$2000 manufacturer rebate

Available conditional discounts:
$7500 EV Tax credit (for individuals making under $150k or couples making under $300k, or until we sell xxx,xxx units, no I don't know how many units we've sold )
$2000 trade in credit (if you trade in a car worth more than $5000 I can give only give you $4,999 for the trade, sorry)
$1000 financing discount (if you finance with us, you will get $1000 off the price what interest rate? Can a drop a check in the mail to pay off the loan on my way home and scam you out of the interest kick back)
$1000 dealer discount for First Responders (you most be currently employed as first responder (fire fighter, police, ambulance private ambulance or fire fighter, volunteer fire fighter, Secret Service, military, national guard, environmental response?)
$500 student discount. You have to be currently enrolled in collegeFT, PT, audit, cosmetology school?

Thanks for clearing that up. That's very transparent of you.

[MadInNc]

Biden trying to get rid of trucks. Sure……

From WSJ 3/22

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by ptindall

Yeah, come on Kevin, read what Aero types. He doesn't want any new laws, he just wants to assault and murder people!

That's just the market reacting to price increases.

[ptindall]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

Does not apply to my statement. My point is that inflation is not even on the table or up for discussion in a Biden/Trump comparison.

The prices we see are what the free market dictates. Joe is a fkn free market hero ! Look what he has accomplished !

I was paying a measly $1.39 for gas but now the market says gas is $3.09 a gallon...because "Merica" and free market !!

Eggs were 99 cents a dozen, but thankfully, the free market has gifted me with the ability to pay $4.00 or more for a dozen eggs. Fk, I'm feeling more patriotic by the minute.

Drawing the conclusion that printing more money, which results in inflation makes one a free market hero is a giant nonsequiter. It makes zero sense.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by ptindall

Drawing the conclusion that printing more money, which results in inflation makes one a free market hero is a giant nonsequiter. It makes zero sense.

Why does it matter HOW or WHY the prices rose?

Don't buy anything if you don't like it.

Shit, why not sell eggs for 40 bucks each? All it takes is for the egg suppliers to get together and make it so.

I'm just thankful for the education I am getting.

I had heard about price gouging and even experienced it myself, but it seems that was all a misconception. That was the free market. There is no such thing as price gouging. Now I know.

I also thought it was unethical and a horrendous act to raise critical meds from $35.00 to $750.00 for absolutely no reason than "because I can", but I was wrong. That was the free market.

How was I so blind? I love this new perspective on ever-increasing prices. It's a great day to be alive and experience this "free market".

I'm also appreciative of WalMart's drive to get rid of the little guys that are attempting to interfere with their free market efforts. WalMart knows best and they should be setting the standard. I'm happy that are around.

[Kevin68]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

You're still NOT getting it.

One day, one day, I you may be put in a position that will illustrate my point.

Again, I'm sure you were disappointed that insulin prices dropped. People should have just done without.

We've all been in a position at one time or another to pay more than we would have preferred, but it's pretty simple: pay, do without, or find a more cost effective alternative.

Didn't follow that one since I'm not diabetic. But I'm pretty sure the price drop on product A resulted in a price rise on products B-Z.