The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[erickpl]

I guess I'm in an odd camp.

I have a Jeep and a Ram truck. Gas powered. LOVE EM. Ram is our tow vehicle and Home Depot/Costco car for the bigger loads. When we were down to just those two, I was filling up the Ram every week. That got expensive.

We had my wife's car we got rid of (dealer offered us a good chunk of $$ to buy it back early in COVID and we weren't driving), so we had that we were sitting on.

She wanted an EV for a few reasons. 1) Performance. She wanted good/great acceleration. 2) Not adding pollution while driving.

Yes, she knows that electricity comes from a variety of sources: oil, coal, gas, nuclear, hydro, solar so there's that, as well as the mining of minerals. So in that respect, EV's are not as environmentally friendly as claims say. But, she was not wanting to spit stuff out a tailpipe while driving, and that is a valid point, especially in cities.

EV's do not create the pollution while in operation that ICE vehicles do, and the amount of added pollution from the power plants is no greater than running a dryer load of laundry for the week (on a level 2 charger at home). The fast, level 3 chargers are more of an issue with power requirements, but they don't get the amount of use that level 2 chargers get - they just get the most publicity and have the bigger target on them.

My Jeep has a specific use: offroad and as a toy (and for severe/bad weather conditions).
My Ram has a specific use: hauling our travel trailer and big loads around town (and the occasional long trip, depending on what we're doing/where we're going).
The EV handles our long trips, around town driving, and is a lot of fun as well. And

Sure, the EV requires the planning of the charging stations, but we're okay with that. If we have to be somewhere, absolutely by a certain time, we take the truck.

I will not say EV's are THE answer. They're absolutely not. But, they are AN answer for some people. Just as the horseless carriage wasn't for everybody, it met a need for others and it grew. Infrastructure grew for it, despite the weaknesses at that time. Things got better. EV's are in a similar situation.

I'd love to see other options where ICE engines get even better with reduced to no emissions (hybrids are an example) yet help with performance as well.

I won't bash on ICE cars because I believe in, and love them. I won't bash on EV's because I think they have a role, believe in them, and love them too. I think innovations from one can help the other.

But I tend to be a moderate and try to see both sides of an issue.

We traded in our first EV, a Kia EV6, and got an insane deal on a Mercedes EQE that put it on par with the cost of the EV6. Longer range, more features she wanted, and put her back in the brand that she enjoys driving (other than BMW). She clears a great salary, so no worries. She's happy. To me, that's what matters.

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by Murray

lol….. they’re everywhere here and we have -25c lows and -18 highs currently and it’s going to be colder

It works the other way, too. Last July I was towing a trailer with my '05 Tundra from Las Vegas NV to the SF Bay Area and about 65 miles east of Baker, an EV was holding up traffic.....he had his emergency flashers on, all 4 windows down and was going 40-45 mph in a 70 zone. It was 111 degrees F outside. We blew on by at the speed limit with the windows up and the AC freezing us out.

No way he made it to Barstow or Baker, and if he did, it was a guaranteed 8 hour charge to move on. Batteries don't like running AC and high cruise speeds for realistic time frames (several hours in a row) when it's hot out.

[Tikiman]

There's a whole stack of them up in Chicago that you could probably pick up cheap if you had a flatbed.

[The_Dude]

Originally Posted by erickpl

I guess I'm in an odd camp.

I have a Jeep and a Ram truck. Gas powered. LOVE EM. Ram is our tow vehicle and Home Depot/Costco car for the bigger loads. When we were down to just those two, I was filling up the Ram every week. That got expensive.

We had my wife's car we got rid of (dealer offered us a good chunk of $$ to buy it back early in COVID and we weren't driving), so we had that we were sitting on.

She wanted an EV for a few reasons. 1) Performance. She wanted good/great acceleration. 2) Not adding pollution while driving.

Yes, she knows that electricity comes from a variety of sources: oil, coal, gas, nuclear, hydro, solar so there's that, as well as the mining of minerals. So in that respect, EV's are not as environmentally friendly as claims say. But, she was not wanting to spit stuff out a tailpipe while driving, and that is a valid point, especially in cities.

EV's do not create the pollution while in operation that ICE vehicles do, and the amount of added pollution from the power plants is no greater than running a dryer load of laundry for the week (on a level 2 charger at home). The fast, level 3 chargers are more of an issue with power requirements, but they don't get the amount of use that level 2 chargers get - they just get the most publicity and have the bigger target on them.

My Jeep has a specific use: offroad and as a toy (and for severe/bad weather conditions).
My Ram has a specific use: hauling our travel trailer and big loads around town (and the occasional long trip, depending on what we're doing/where we're going).
The EV handles our long trips, around town driving, and is a lot of fun as well. And

Sure, the EV requires the planning of the charging stations, but we're okay with that. If we have to be somewhere, absolutely by a certain time, we take the truck.

I will not say EV's are THE answer. They're absolutely not. But, they are AN answer for some people. Just as the horseless carriage wasn't for everybody, it met a need for others and it grew. Infrastructure grew for it, despite the weaknesses at that time. Things got better. EV's are in a similar situation.

I'd love to see other options where ICE engines get even better with reduced to no emissions (hybrids are an example) yet help with performance as well.

I won't bash on ICE cars because I believe in, and love them. I won't bash on EV's because I think they have a role, believe in them, and love them too. I think innovations from one can help the other.

But I tend to be a moderate and try to see both sides of an issue.

We traded in our first EV, a Kia EV6, and got an insane deal on a Mercedes EQE that put it on par with the cost of the EV6. Longer range, more features she wanted, and put her back in the brand that she enjoys driving (other than BMW). She clears a great salary, so no worries. She's happy. To me, that's what matters.

cliffs?

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by The_Dude

cliffs?

EVs work for some things for some people, but aren't nearly ready to replace ICE cars.

YW

[The_Dude]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

EVs work for some things for some people, but aren't nearly ready to replace ICE cars.

YW

Thanks! Why didn't he just say that instead of writing a book? Being succinct > verbosity

[Mick]

I have a cold, and didn't get out of bed until 10 am this morning. I took a piss when I got up. It's 1 pm now, three hours since I have pissed. I had a glass of water, two cups of coffee, and a glass of OJ since I got up, and I still don't have to piss. Should I see a Doctor about this? Please help.

[KenHorse]

Originally Posted by Mick

I have a cold, and didn't get out of bed until 10 am this morning. I took a piss when I got up. It's 1 pm now, three hours since I have pissed. I had a glass of water, two cups of coffee, and a glass of OJ since I got up, and I still don't have to piss. Should I see a Doctor about this? Please help.

When you're able to again, at least you have a pot to piss in

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by erickpl

I guess I'm in an odd camp.

You're one of the few people who can actually think rationally on this topic.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Tikiman

There's a whole stack of them up in Chicago that you could probably pick up cheap if you had a flatbed.

Or check out one of the Hertz used vehicle sales.

[erickpl]

Originally Posted by The_Dude

Thanks! Why didn't he just say that instead of writing a book? Being succinct > verbosity

Yeah, I sometimes forget that complex issues have to be simplified for people.

And in this group, if you keep it TOO simple, you get jumped on for not providing specifics or examples. So I provided it.

The reality here is that most people (both pro- and anti- EV) seem to oversimplify the issues with them. I try not to.

I try not to live life using memes and oversimplification. But the attached photo seems to best illustrate where we're at. If you find it funny, you likely don't have an issue with EV's. If you are offended by it, you're likely opposed to EV's.

[The_Dude]

Originally Posted by erickpl

Yeah, I sometimes forget that complex issues have to be simplified for people.

And in this group, if you keep it TOO simple, you get jumped on for not providing specifics or examples. So I provided it.

The reality here is that most people (both pro- and anti- EV) seem to oversimplify the issues with them. I try not to.

I try not to live life using memes and oversimplification. But the attached photo seems to best illustrate where we're at. If you find it funny, you likely don't have an issue with EV's. If you are offended by it, you're likely opposed to EV's.

no homo

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

You're one of the few people who can actually think rationally on this topic.

I've said many times that I am/have considered various EVs for very specific purposes. I've looked at and driven the Hummer, Audi, Caddy, and have researched but not driven the Lucid and Rivian. I've driven multiple Tesla models as well. While the thought of being a part of the Tesla cult would make me want to instinctively punch myself in the face, my reason for not wanting one isn't political or idealistic. It's very simple actually. I think they drive like shit and look even worse. They accelerate well. Great. In every other aspect that I even remotely care about, they are garbage.

What I do have a problem with is the inability of the EV zealots to admit that they are anything less than perfection with their constant barrage of absolutely stupid shit trying to convince people that they are better in all ways than ICE vehicles ... and the things that aren't better, don't matter anyway (because they let you eat hot meals).

[Mick]

Originally Posted by KenHorse

When you're able to again, at least you have a pot to piss in

True, true. At least so far, I haven't had the other problem (not being able to go when it makes sense to empty the tank) either. Some on here would have you believe that I am somehow "weird". I always state the caveat (at least so far), because I know that both conditions are common as us men age, and I am thankful that so far, I haven't had problems in that department. I also know that tomorrow may bring some unwelcome surprises, so unlike others here, I don't criticize those who have "special needs". I think most men who have those types of issues at a young age are just unlucky, but a special few (like those who consume 20+ cans of soda per day) bring it on themselves. I have little sympathy for folks who suffer from self-inflicted conditions.

Originally Posted by dvarapala

You're one of the few people who can actually think rationally on this topic.

Do you think you're one of those?

[GTOguy]

Originally Posted by erickpl

Yeah, I sometimes forget that complex issues have to be simplified for people.

And in this group, if you keep it TOO simple, you get jumped on for not providing specifics or examples. So I provided it.

The reality here is that most people (both pro- and anti- EV) seem to oversimplify the issues with them. I try not to.

I try not to live life using memes and oversimplification. But the attached photo seems to best illustrate where we're at. If you find it funny, you likely don't have an issue with EV's. If you are offended by it, you're likely opposed to EV's.

The funny fact is, when this car came out 120 years ago, there were more EV's than gas or steam cars at the time. They didn't pan out then, either.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

What I do have a problem with is the inability of the EV zealots to admit that they are anything less than perfection with their constant barrage of absolutely stupid shit trying to convince people that they are better in all ways than ICE vehicles ...

So which VB members here are "EV zealots" in your esteemed opinion?

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by GTOguy

The funny fact is, when this car came out 120 years ago, there were more EV's than gas or steam cars at the time.

And you would know since you learned to drive on one.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Mick

Do you think you're one of those?

I know that I am. However, as one of my Core Haters, you'll never admit it.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

So which VB members here are "EV zealots" in your esteemed opinion?

GSC3 is a Board Certified EV Zealot. You just act like one to troll people.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

So which VB members here are "EV zealots" in your esteemed opinion?

If you have to ask...