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Old 05-24-2010, 10:13pm   #21
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W has nothing to do with this so don't go there.

And don't tell me a government that can put a man on the moon, take over the largest corporation in the world, and assume they can do health care better than the entire insurance industry, can't plug a hole in a pipe a mile under water.
W has everything to do with it. he & Cheney left the oil industry to police itself & the chickens are coming home to roost. the industry is authorized to drill at twice the depth this well came in at, but nobody has a feckin' clue how to handle a blowout like this at that depth. I *am* telling you the government doesn't know what to with a pipe a mile under water because of people like your boy W's lack of regulating the industry. BTW, the moon,taking over corporations & health care have exactly what to do with
"a pipe a mile under the water?"
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Old 05-25-2010, 9:07pm   #22
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What to they have to do with it? How about massive engineering and the ability to take over an industry.

As for regulation I can't see where regs were lax, but enforcement sucked. I know next to nothing about offshore drilling but what I see tells me that BP shorted the required testing and work.

I have no clue who is supposed to police the drilling systems on offshore platforms - OSHA? EPA? Energy Department?
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Old 05-25-2010, 9:34pm   #23
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What to they have to do with it? How about massive engineering and the ability to take over an industry.

As for regulation I can't see where regs were lax, but enforcement sucked. I know next to nothing about offshore drilling but what I see tells me that BP shorted the required testing and work.

I have no clue who is supposed to police the drilling systems on offshore platforms - OSHA? EPA? Energy Department?
that's just it. the industry was trusted to "police" itself. acoustic regulators were suggested to be mandated to the government & they said "nah...the drillers know what they're doing, besides they cost $500k" [or something like that] but what do we really expect from politicians that were in oil all their lives? do you think our government has a secret warehouse full of emergency equipment that will clean this all up? are you actually advocating the taking over of the oil industry??
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:37pm   #24
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No, the point I'm making (obviously not well) is that a government that can take over the largest company on the planet and put people on the moon should have no hesitation in doing whatever is necessary to protect the environment and livelihood of the Gulf Coast.

I don't see the Navy or Woods Hole Oceanographic - people who routinely work at those depths on the scene. Hell, call Clive Cussler and get NUMA down there. The lack of action by the government almost criminal.

We have a 700 ship navy and yet they are hoping a bunch of cajuns from the Bubba Gump Shrimp Company throwing haybales in the ocean are going to protect thousands of miles of wetlands.

It's damned easy to say we want to be green, but when the rubber meets the road I'm not seeing much more than finger pointing.


Shell Oil's former President was on NBC saying that after a big spill in the 90's in the Arabian gulf, a number of Supertankers circled the spill and pumped the oil and water into their holds, then took it to a separation facility and returned the seawater to the ocean after the oil was removed. Where is that kind of thinking?
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Old 05-26-2010, 7:20am   #25
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No, the point I'm making (obviously not well) is that a government that can take over the largest company on the planet and put people on the moon should have no hesitation in doing whatever is necessary to protect the environment and livelihood of the Gulf Coast.

I don't see the Navy or Woods Hole Oceanographic - people who routinely work at those depths on the scene. Hell, call Clive Cussler and get NUMA down there. The lack of action by the government almost criminal.

We have a 700 ship navy and yet they are hoping a bunch of cajuns from the Bubba Gump Shrimp Company throwing haybales in the ocean are going to protect thousands of miles of wetlands.

It's damned easy to say we want to be green, but when the rubber meets the road I'm not seeing much more than finger pointing.


Shell Oil's former President was on NBC saying that after a big spill in the 90's in the Arabian gulf, a number of Supertankers circled the spill and pumped the oil and water into their holds, then took it to a separation facility and returned the seawater to the ocean after the oil was removed. Where is that kind of thinking?
I guess you don't realize that no one [including BP] had a plan if a blowout happened at this depth. I don't see where accusing the government of taking over the auto industry is really relevant in this conversation. I really don't understand people that whine & cry about Obama being against Big Oil/Coal & a tree hugger,then when he tries to let the people that should know what the feck they are doing clean up the mess they caused he's suddenly under scrutiny because BP contributed to his campaign & now they are saying he's in bed with Big Oil. WTF? you can't have it both ways. which is it?
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Old 05-26-2010, 9:43am   #26
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Government Workers Tasked With Gulf Oil Industry Oversight Accepted Gifts | CommonDreams.org
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Old 05-26-2010, 3:02pm   #27
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I guess you don't realize that no one [including BP] had a plan if a blowout happened at this depth.
Someone has a plan. Somewhere. this stuff should never have been approved if there were not plans. From your link above it appears no one actually ever read the plan to see. Once upon a time I did proposals for the closing of hazardous waste sites (SuperFund). We'd submit proposals and plans that were checked and rechecked by the EPA, engineers and the lawyers for the property owners because nobody wanted the potential liability if we didn't get it right. I cannot believe this was allowed, in a post Exxon Valdez world. It's like not enough lifeboats on the Titanic.

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I don't see where accusing the government of taking over the auto industry is really relevant in this conversation.
Scope. And precedence.
This administration jumps right in to attack an economic problem that is going to affect Big Labor and spends billions to stop it with inventive, never before tried schemes, programs and take-overs. An environmental disaster gets a scolding and handwringing.

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I really don't understand people that whine & cry about Obama being against Big Oil/Coal & a tree hugger,then when he tries to let the people that should know what the feck they are doing clean up the mess they caused he's suddenly under scrutiny because BP contributed to his campaign & now they are saying he's in bed with Big Oil. WTF? you can't have it both ways. which is it?
Exactly, you can't have it both ways. You can't say you're against Big Oil and take their money. Which is it?

You can't say you're an environmentalist and then sit on your thumbs when a disaster happens. Which is it?

He's letting people that should know what they are doing handle it? But, has no problem putting the president of a phone company in charge of the world's largest automobile manufacturer? Which is it?
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Old 05-26-2010, 3:20pm   #28
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Someone has a plan. Somewhere. this stuff should never have been approved if there were not plans. From your link above it appears no one actually ever read the plan to see. Once upon a time I did proposals for the closing of hazardous waste sites (SuperFund). We'd submit proposals and plans that were checked and rechecked by the EPA, engineers and the lawyers for the property owners because nobody wanted the potential liability if we didn't get it right. I cannot believe this was allowed, in a post Exxon Valdez world. It's like not enough lifeboats on the Titanic.
I can't believe it either, but how is it the new administration's fault? Bush handed this clusterf**k off to us & now he & Cheney's screw ups are biting us in the ass. if "someone somewhere" has a plan, where is it??

Scope. And precedence.
This administration jumps right in to attack an economic problem that is going to affect Big Labor and spends billions to stop it with inventive, never before tried schemes, programs and take-overs. An environmental disaster gets a scolding and handwringing.

incorrect. this administration "jumped in" to try to thwart the biggest Depression the World Has Ever Known"....so far [knock on wood] it's working.

Exactly, you can't have it both ways. You can't say you're against Big Oil and take their money. Which is it?

You can't say you're an environmentalist and then sit on your thumbs when a disaster happens. Which is it?

He's letting people that should know what they are doing handle it? But, has no problem putting the president of a phone company in charge of the world's largest automobile manufacturer? Which is it?
if you will research a little you will find that the Republican Party received more $$ from Big Oil than Obama & the Dems ever did. [imagine that] GM is turning a profit for the first time in years & is paying us back for the loan. I'd say the choice of an ATT exec [hate to admit it] was a a pretty good one.
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Old 05-26-2010, 3:38pm   #29
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if you will research a little you will find that the Republican Party received more $$ from Big Oil than Obama & the Dems ever did. [imagine that] GM is turning a profit for the first time in years & is paying us back for the loan. I'd say the choice of an ATT exec [hate to admit it] was a a pretty good one.
Of course the GOP received more money from Big Oil. In fact that's the point.
Why is Obama taking money from them at all? Is the best answer "because everybody does it?"

I think Whitacre is doing an impressive job and that's the other point - why are we letting the guys at BP handle this mess if it's proven an outsider can do a better job?
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Old 05-26-2010, 3:50pm   #30
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Of course the GOP received more money from Big Oil. In fact that's the point.
Why is Obama taking money from them at all? Is the best answer "because everybody does it?"

I think Whitacre is doing an impressive job and that's the other point - why are we letting the guys at BP handle this mess if it's proven an outsider can do a better job?
yes. you are correct. it's because "everyone does it." welcome to Politics 101. Ben Franklin took beer & chickens.
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Old 05-26-2010, 8:42pm   #31
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yes. you are correct. it's because "everyone does it." welcome to Politics 101. Ben Franklin took beer & chickens.
Ben Franklin wasn't an elected official.
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Old 05-26-2010, 8:55pm   #32
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Ben Franklin wasn't an elected official.
but he loved his beer. "beer is proof that God loves us & wants us to be happy."[BF] I'll bet he liked chicken, too. most politicians do.
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