The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by sublime1996525

Tesla doesn’t even have Apple CarPlay. Fail.

I consider the absence of Apple tracking technology to be a plus.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

I consider the absence of Apple tracking technology to be a plus.

It would be a plus if it didn't have more than enough tracking of it's own to make up the gap...

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Bruze

The elites are not directly forcing people to buy EVs, but they are regulating gas vehicles into oblivion. Just keep making stricter and stricter rules so at some point they simply won't work.

Originally Posted by MY03C5Z

No big left wing ideas proposed by CA ever spread around the US…..

Originally Posted by aerovette

It is the same tactic used with the clot shot. You aren't "forced" to get it, but you'll sure be a pariah and a prisoner of your own making if you don't get it.

No, you don't "have to" buy an EV, but gas will have a Federal tax of $6.00 a gallon and there will be a highway tax for non-EVs of $5,000.00 per year to drive on US roads, etc. etc.

It's fascinating to me how some folks get all bent out of shape about something that might happen way off in the future, but blithely ignore the loss of privacy and freedom that comes from Surveillance Capitalism that is happening right now.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

It would be a plus if it didn't have more than enough tracking of it's own to make up the gap...

Tesla is no different than any other current car manufacturer - they all have built in telematics ECUs. Some of them you can't even disable because doing so would prevent the vehicle from operating normally.

Another current threat to privacy and liberty that nobody seems to be bothered about.

[RedLS1GTO]

I’ll just leave this here…

I'm not sure which part is more amusing, that it only went 100 miles or that he had to slow down to 55 to make it even go that far.

But... but... the spec sheet says the R1 has an 11,000lb towing capacity!!

I can't wait to see Elon's hideous beast increase that to at least 110.

Idiots.

[Onebadcad]

telsas are on fire, literally!!

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I can't wait to see Elon's hideous beast increase that to at least 110.

Or maybe not...

https://insideevs.com/news/703326/te...ld-range-test/

most everyone knows that the range estimates advertised by automakers should be taken with a grain of salt, and I’m talking about both electric and combustion vehicles.

That said, some EVs manage to beat range estimates in real-world testing done by publications like InsideEVs, Edmunds, and Consumer Reports, which can alleviate some of the range anxiety that might be experienced by newcomers in the electric vehicle world.

Tesla isn’t on those lists, though. In fact, all of the EVs made by the American company have made headlines over the years because of their inability to match their advertised range in real-world conditions. And now, the brand-new Tesla Cybertruck joins its stablemates by driving less on a full charge than what Tesla is touting on its website—at least according to one test.

In the five-hour-long live stream (yes, it’s that long) embedded here, InsideEVs alum Kyle Conner, who runs the Out of Spec group of YouTube channels, got his hands on a Foundation Series dual-motor Cybertruck riding on 20-inch wheels wrapped in 35-inch all-terrain tires.

The topic of the video is simple: see how far the EV can drive on a full battery. The test was conducted at night in Texas, at an ambient temperature of about 45 degrees Fahrenheit (7 degrees Celsius), and a relatively constant speed of 70 miles per hour (112 kilometers per hour.)

The car was fully charged at a Tesla Supercharger and then Kyle drove it until the Cybertruck was no longer able to move under its own power. The AC fan was set to Low and the so-called Autopilot advanced driver-assistance system was not working, so it wasn’t drawing extra power, at least in theory.

According to Tesla, a dual-motor Cybertruck with all-terrain tires is capable of driving 320 miles (515 km) on a full charge. Out of Spec Motoring’s test ended after just 254 miles (408 km) on the highway. That’s still a decent range, but it’s also 20.6% less than what it says on the box.

By comparison, when we range-tested the Rivian R1T with all-terrain tires, it fell 20 miles short of its equivalent EPA range estimate, or 7.4 percent less than advertised.

Considering just one person was sitting inside the Cybertruck and there was no load in the bed, it’s not a mind-blowing result. Judging by this early test, we should see a dramatic decrease in driving range if the ambient temperature is lower and there’s a large payload in the bed or a trailer behind. Furthermore, most people drive between 20% and 90% state of charge to protect the battery, so what should they expect in terms of real-world range?

Going for the all-season tires increases the estimated range to 340 miles, which should result in a longer real-world range, too, but it’s hard to imagine a set of tires will magically make the Cybertruck reach its advertised range.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The Hummer EV is a cool looking vehicle but it's only a "SHOW" truck. If you actually look at the payload and towing capacity, it's a joke of a truck..
It 100% LOOKS COOL but AS A TRUCK, it's almost worthless. 1300 lbs payload on a big ass truck like that.

...

...

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

hmmmm.. the Cybertruck's payload exceeds most other 1/2 ton trucks (2500 lbs) and it can tow 11000 lbs and with the soon to be available range extender battery, it will have great range as well, even towing.

You want to talk about a WORTHLESS truck, the Cybertruck weighs damn near as much as a diesel dually, and actually will weigh more with an additional 600lb "extended battery" (7,443 vs 7,190lbs). You have a bed the size of an F-150. You'll lose about 1/3 of that with the extended battery and you can't tow a trailer farther than your neighbors driveway. You sure as hell won't be able to do it at anything resembling normal highway speeds, and if you want to actually go farther, you'll have to unhook your trailer every time you stop to fit it in a charger.

Heil Elon!

[KenHorse]

Originally Posted by Bruze

The big issue is (or should be) the loss of freedom by having EVs forced on us and the purposeful destruction of the gas vehicle market.

But most Americans do not know what liberty is, so they do not know when it's being taken away, so we're on a downward spiral to tyranny.

Restrict the movement of the proletariat. Marxism/Commucrat Agenda Item #3

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

telsas are on fire, literally!!

A ICE vehicle has 10 times higher risk catching fire IN SCALE!! Both statistics based on number of cars sold that caught fire as well as fires by miles driven show that Teslas have significantly lower risk of catching fire.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Or maybe not...

https://insideevs.com/news/703326/te...ld-range-test/












You want to talk about a WORTHLESS truck, the Cybertruck weighs damn near as much as a diesel dually, and actually will weigh more with an additional 600lb "extended battery" (7,443 vs 7,190lbs). You have a bed the size of an F-150. You'll lose about 1/3 of that with the extended battery and you can't tow a trailer farther than your neighbors driveway. You sure as hell won't be able to do it at anything resembling normal highway speeds, and if you want to actually go farther, you'll have to unhook your trailer every time you stop to fit it in a charger.

Heil Elon!

Worthless?? That's why there are 2 Million orders and 10000 people are ordering every day since the delivery event.

[snide]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Worthless?? That's why there are 2 Million orders and 10000 people are ordering every day since the delivery event.

Might want to wash the jizz off your face.

[KenHorse]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Worthless?? That's why there are 2 Million orders and 10000 people are ordering every day since the delivery event.

10's of millions bought the pet rock.

You think you had a point?

[MY03C5Z]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I’ll just leave this here…

I'm not sure which part is more amusing, that it only went 100 miles or that he had to slow down to 55 to make it even go that far.

But... but... the spec sheet says the R1 has an 11,000lb towing capacity!!

I can't wait to see Elon's hideous beast increase that to at least 110.

Idiots.

Rivian’s owners manual should indicate towing should really be limited to <15 minute trips to Bed Bath & Beyond with a small utility trailer.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Worthless?? That's why there are 2 Million orders and 10000 people are ordering every day since the delivery event.

Yes. It is absolutely worthless as a truck.

The number of people buying them to drive back-and-forth to Starbucks and Target doesn’t change that.

Funny, how specs mean everything to you… Until they don’t. And then it becomes about the number of people who buy them.

Which is it?

The cybertruck is bigger than most diesel dually trucks, has less cargo room than an F150, and likely won’t be able to tow more than 150 miles (150 is a generous estimate). If it somehow can eek out 150, it sure as hell won’t be able to do it at normal highway speed like any other truck can do. We’ve already seen that it has the off-road prowess of a Toyota Camry. You can’t fit anything of size in it, you can’t tow beyond your neighbor’s driveway with it, it can’t go off-road. It absolutely sucks at any stat even remotely relevant to a truck.

So, do “specs” matter or not?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Yes. It is absolutely worthless as a truck.

The number of people buying them to drive back-and-forth to Starbucks and Target doesn’t change that.

Funny, how specs mean everything to you… Until they don’t. And then it becomes about the number of people who buy them.

Which is it?

The cybertruck is bigger than most diesel dually trucks, has less cargo room than an F150, and likely won’t be able to tow more than 150 miles (150 is a generous estimate). If it somehow can eek out 150, it sure as hell won’t be able to do it at normal highway speed like any other truck can do. We’ve already seen that it has the off-road prowess of a Toyota Camry. You can’t fit anything of size in it, you can’t tow beyond your neighbor’s driveway with it, it can’t go off-road. It absolutely sucks at any stat even remotely relevant to a truck.

So, do “specs” matter or not?

Honest question: What percent of 1/2 ton truck owners do you think frequently haul large trailers for a long distance?

I don't think that there are statistics on that but I don't think that it's many. I owned 6 different pickup trucks (Sierra 2500 Turbo Diesel, Ram 1500, Silverado 1500, F250 V10, S10 Pickup, F150 FX2 Supercrew) and the only time I actually hauled a heavier trailer was when I drag raced my Race Vette. Other than hauling my Race Vette, most of my truck use was to haul stuff from and to my flip homes and rentals to remodel them. So, for those who frequently haul heavy loads cross country, the Cybertruck is not for them. For everyone else, it should work just perfectlly and considering the price of gasoline pickup trucks, it would not take too long time to make up the price difference with gas or diesel savings. 2500 lbs work load is one of the best in class. Also, the Cybertruck is smaller than a F150 Supercrew yet has a longer bed 6 feet vs. 5.5 feet on the F150.

[RedLS1GTO]

So …the argument is that for everyone who doesn’t intend to ever actually use their truck as a truck, it will work just fine. Yes, thanks for confirming that as a TRUCK it is indeed worthless.

Funny that not long ago you were spouting off about towing capacity and range. “Even while towing.” And bashing the Hummer for being “a joke of a truck”. Keep moving those goalposts.

I guarantee that a higher percentage of 1/2 ton truck owners use their trucks as trucks than people who drag race (but not race because they’re not allowed) their SUV, but that certainly doesn’t stop you from using 1/4 mile times to claim that your Plaid is the greatest thing ever made.

Like I said. With everything you keep spouting about how great they are, stats matter… until they don’t.

Also, why do you keep comparing a 7000lb Cybertruck to stats of a 1/2 ton? Even even at that, you are comparing it to the least capable half ton on the market in the short bed F150, which in itself is telling. Compare similar things, right? Could it be that it has absolutely laughable capabilities if compared to other trucks that are the same size? The other key factor is that while it may not be done on a regular basis, any of the ICE trucks COULD do truck things. You like to use exaggerations to try to deflect, minimize , and hide the (many) negatives. “ Frequently haul heavy loads cross country,”. The Cybertruck can’t even make a simple outing with a camper or a quick trip to pick something up 100 miles away. It couldn’t even bring go karts to a local race and back. ANY ice truck could do that with ease.

What’s sad is that my Escalade is actually an infinitely better truck than the Cybertruck.

Your ability to continuously try to twist reality into a pile of bullshit about how amazing all things Elon are is pretty absurd. The really ridiculous part is that you actually believe it.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Yadkin

Point.

Not really. As of 11 years ago when Hurricane Sandy hit, ALL solar installations in NJ were REQUIRED to be connected directly to the grid. What this meant was that when the grid was down, you had no electrical access to your solar panels, and it was against the law for you to disconnect them from the grid for your own use.

Some months back, I tried to find out if that had changed, and didn't find anything definitive, other than some sites using language like "nearly all" systems are connected directly to the grid.

The point being, if you get solar panels on your house, and plan to use the power from them when the grid is down, you better ask some hard questions of your installer before you pay your money. You had to see the green weenies going apoplectic when the grid was down for 2-4 weeks, and they could not access the power from their panels. Meanwhile, us folks with dino-powered generators were fine.

One other thing: I couldn't find anything definitive, but it seems heavily implied that if you want "net metering", you will be required to have your panels connected directly to the grid. Caveat emptor.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

So …the argument is that for everyone who doesn’t intend to ever actually use their truck as a truck, it will work just fine. Yes, thanks for confirming that as a TRUCK it is indeed worthless.

Funny that not long ago you were spouting off about towing capacity and range. “Even while towing.” And bashing the Hummer for being “a joke of a truck”. Keep moving those goalposts.

I guarantee that a higher percentage of 1/2 ton truck owners use their trucks as trucks than people who drag race (but not race because they’re not allowed) their SUV, but that certainly doesn’t stop you from using 1/4 mile times to claim that your Plaid is the greatest thing ever made.

Like I said. With everything you keep spouting about how great they are, stats matter… until they don’t.

Also, why do you keep comparing a 7000lb Cybertruck to stats of a 1/2 ton? Even even at that, you are comparing it to the least capable half ton on the market in the short bed F150, which in itself is telling. Compare similar things, right? Could it be that it has absolutely laughable capabilities if compared to other trucks that are the same size? The other key factor is that while it may not be done on a regular basis, any of the ICE trucks COULD do truck things. You like to use exaggerations to try to deflect, minimize , and hide the (many) negatives. “ Frequently haul heavy loads cross country,”. The Cybertruck can’t even make a simple outing with a camper or a quick trip to pick something up 100 miles away. It couldn’t even bring go karts to a local race and back. ANY ice truck could do that with ease.

What’s sad is that my Escalade is actually an infinitely better truck than the Cybertruck.

Your ability to continuously try to twist reality into a pile of bullshit about how amazing all things Elon are is pretty absurd. The really ridiculous part is that you actually believe it.

Most people will use their truck around town. I would guess that less than 1% of 1/2 ton pickup truck owners take their truck on frequent long trips with a trailer. That's mostly people with campers or businesses hauling stuff.
The Cybertruck has almost TWICE the payload of a Hummer. The Hummer is a gigantic truck with a payload capacity of a Ranger while the Cybertruck has about the same payload of a gas F150 Supercrew. Again, the VAST MAJORITY of 1/2 ton pickup truck owners will not tow heavy trailers cross country or a regular basis. You know that this is the case. Why does the truck's weight have anything to do with the discussion. It's completely irrelevant as long as the heavy weight doesn't reduce the payload (like in case of the Hummer).
The amount of people with a camper is ridiculously low. It's not a large number at all. Most 1/2 ton trucks will rarely see any days where they drive more than 150 miles in a day with a heavy trailer. I only own a 8 x 5 foot trailer with a maximum weight of 2000 lbs and I have never needed anything bigger and I remodel homes from time to time and haul tile and stuff to the landfill. If you have a camper and you go on frequent long trips with it, don't get an EV truck.. It's that simple. That eliminates probably like 5% of 1/2 ton truck buyers.

[Steve_R]

Can we PLEASE get an emoji here of a person beating a dead horse? It should obviously be named :gsc3:

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Can we PLEASE get an emoji here of a person beating a dead horse? It should obviously be named :gsc3:

I feel this is more to the point that a weak emoji: