The Coming Retirement Crisis

[dwjz06]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

This is a better answer than I could come up with:



I agree with all of that except the last part. I've figured for my working life that the .gov money wouldn't be there when I got older, so I've planned and saved for retirement. I don't need SS, Medicare, Medicaid, or any other .gov handouts. I have no desire to screw over our kids and grandkids.

Good on you. Sometimes circumstances happen where the planning part does not work out so well. I agree with not wanting to screw over my kids or grandkids. I will remain working as long as I can to put that off. In the end if it is still there, and I am in need I will gladly use some of the money I pissed away in the Ponzi scheme that we all had no choice in participating in. If it is not there. I will do the best I can.

Originally Posted by aerovette

I feel VERY entitled to what I paid in to it.

I also believe there should be a "lump some" option that can be willed.

Not sure entitled is the right wording. As GTrain has said many times it is a tax really, but the sad part is like all other taxes we cannot opt out of it. Sucks bad, but we all get hammered on this one.

[Aerovette]

I see it as a government mandated savings account.

If it is in my name, tied to my SS # and I have no choice to make deposits, when the day comes that I can make a legal withdrawal, I am simply taking my own deposits back out.

Like a 401k that doesn't grow.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by dwjz06

Good on you. Sometimes circumstances happen where the planning part does not work out so well. I agree with not wanting to screw over my kids or grandkids. I will remain working as long as I can to put that off. In the end if it is still there, and I am in need I will gladly use some of the money I pissed away in the Ponzi scheme that we all had no choice in participating in. If it is not there. I will do the best I can.

That's called a safety net, which is how SS started. Then the attitude changed to "It's my money, I want it back whether I need it or not." Of course, it doesn't help that SS taxes were supposed to be invested in a trust fund, not used to fund .gov operations by putting IOUs into the SS trust fund. It's an unsustainable model, yet younger people increasingly think socialism is good. It will/must all come crashing down like socialism has in every other country that tried it, and that day will be ugly.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by aerovette

I see it as a government mandated savings account.

If it is in my name, tied to my SS # and I have no choice to make deposits, when the day comes that I can make a legal withdrawal, I am simply taking my own deposits back out.

Like a 401k that doesn't grow.

So you shouldn't get any more out of SS than you put in?

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

So you shouldn't get any more out of SS than you put in?

Maybe so.

With a cash out option at 67, I'd be ok with it.

Also, I'm not using the liberal's definition of "entitled". I am using the Webster's version below.

Definition of entitled
1: having a right to certain benefits or privileges

[dwjz06]

Originally Posted by aerovette

I see it as a government mandated savings account.

If it is in my name, tied to my SS # and I have no choice to make deposits, when the day comes that I can make a legal withdrawal, I am simply taking my own deposits back out.

Like a 401k that doesn't grow.

One way to look at it. Agree we had no choice. I hope I do not have to use it right away or after it comes crashing down, but like everything else in this world. I think we will not have many choices when that day comes.

[Dan47]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

He's paid into SS for nearly 50 years. Are you suggesting he's not entitled to those benefits?

As soon as you find that pile of money they stuck his contributions into, let me know. As it stands, they pay current beneficiaries by robbing the next generation. No one is entitled to someone else's wealth, that's theft, even when the government steals it for you.

[dwjz06]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

That's called a safety net, which is how SS started. Then the attitude changed to "It's my money, I want it back whether I need it or not." Of course, it doesn't help that SS taxes were supposed to be invested in a trust fund, not used to fund .gov operations by putting IOUs into the SS trust fund. It's an unsustainable model, yet younger people increasingly think socialism is good. It will/must all come crashing down like socialism has in every other country that tried it, and that day will be ugly.

You know the strange thing about this part. I know of some, and have heard from others families of people that died before they could collect or just started it and kicked off. It seems like all of that money lost should have gone to the families in some way right? At least what they put in maybe? But to offer like $250 bucks for a funeral expense seems really lousy to me in those cases.

[Dan47]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

What's you opinion on Medicare? We've all paid into it, are we entitled to utilize this benefit?

Use it as you see fit but don't call it something it isn't. It's theft, plain and siimple. And it's the reason people in government have been able to justify all the other social spending they do today.

I understand how someone forced to pay the tax would want to recieve the benefits promised but that doesn't change the nature of the program.

[Dan47]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

That's called a safety net, which is how SS started. Then the attitude changed to "It's my money, I want it back whether I need it or not." Of course, it doesn't help that SS taxes were supposed to be invested in a trust fund, not used to fund .gov operations by putting IOUs into the SS trust fund. It's an unsustainable model, yet younger people increasingly think socialism is good. It will/must all come crashing down like socialism has in every other country that tried it, and that day will be ugly.

Needs repeating.

That day may be closer than any of us can imagine.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

You can call it whatever you want. Theft, a ponzi scheme, robbery whatever. I was forced to pay it, I want it back upon retirement. (Which probably won't happen due to divorce late in life)

[dwjz06]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

You can call it whatever you want. Theft, a ponzi scheme, robbery whatever. I was forced to pay it, I want it back upon retirement. (Which probably won't happen due to divorce late in life)

You're not the only one in that boat Thomas

[Bill]

Originally Posted by dwjz06

You know the strange thing about this part. I know of some, and have heard from others that died before they could collect or just started it and kicked off. It seems like all of that money lost should have gone to the families in some way right? At least what they put in maybe? But to offer like $250 bucks for a funeral expense seems really lousy to me in those cases.

A surviving spouse can claim the full benefit of the deceased spouse, but in exchange, waives their own benefits. So a widow who never worked would have been entitled to collect half the husband's SS payment just by virtue of being married, but then the husband dies, so the widow exchanges her half benefit for the full benefit of the deceased husband.

Also, something lesser known (I didn't know about it), dependent children of SS recipients can collect payments, too, separate and above from the recipient's payment. This is probably a rare event, but I could see it happening if, say, grandparents end up adopting their kids' children for some reason.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Dan47

As soon as you find that pile of money they stuck his contributions into, let me know. As it stands, they pay current beneficiaries by robbing the next generation. No one is entitled to someone else's wealth, that's theft, even when the government steals it for you.

The government has been robbing from SS almost since its inception. It has become a slush fund. If it runs out of money it will NOT be because of pay outs to retirees.

[Dan47]

Originally Posted by aerovette

The government has been robbing from SS almost since its inception. It has become a slush fund. If it runs out of money it will NOT be because of pay outs to retirees.

That's probably true and exactly why the government has no business building, funding and controlling social safety nets.

[6spdC6]

Time to throw my 2 cents in! Will put on my Kevlar underwear!

I have been paying into SS since age 14, NOT BY MY CHOICE! I was told at my retirement funds will be available to me, based on my work history. For the most part I made very good money and therefore would get a decent amount from SS.

If I could have got out of this up to a few years before I retired I would of, REMEMBER I DID NOT ASK FOR THIS. I could have made more money playing the stock market. As is I have a very decent portfolio but having more money to invest it would be farther ahead. This was the rules we were playing under and I will do all in my power to get back as much of the money stolen from me as I can

I retired at age 55, (now 76) from my union and at age 62 I stared getting back some of the SS money that was taken from me. It was a normal retirement not the giveaway (welfare type stuff) so many people are now getting. I worked dam hard and I want what is mine.

You other people bitching about this lets see if you can do better, but I doubt you will have much luck, like beating the goverment monopoly. Just shooting off your mouth, beating on the keyboard will not help!

If the goverment had not raided the SS fund so many dam times there would be plenty of money available, you beef is not people like me, it is politicians mostly democratic politicians.

Contrary to what a lot of you say if you live long enough to get RETIREMENT SS you will take it. I know many have said no they will not, the only way that bullshit will hold is if you are in the rich class. Again you bullshitters will take what you can.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I don't need SS, Medicare, Medicaid, or any other .gov handouts.

Are you taking it? Planning on taking it or are you going to leave it on the table?

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Are you taking it? Planning on taking it or are you going to leave it on the table?

Not taking it now. Not currently planning on taking it. Seems more than a bit hypocritical to take .gov money I don’t need just to pass it along to the kids when I'm gone.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Not taking it now. Not currently planning on taking it. Seems more than a bit hypocritical to take .gov money I don’t need just to pass it along to the kids when I'm gone.

Curious. Why do you say that? Do you take tax deductions? If you don't need to, why do you? How is this different?

Not poking at you, it's a genuine question.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by aerovette

Curious. Why do you say that? Do you take tax deductions? If you don't need to, why do you? How is this different?

Not poking at you, it's a genuine question.

Yes, I take legitimate tax deductions. As I said already I view SS the same as welfare, food stamps, etc. It’s a safety net to keep people from living under a bridge, not help well-off people live better or enlarge an estate to pass along.

Just how I was raised.