Does this seem weird to anyone else? :skep:

[NEED-A-VETTE]

tl;dr Neighbor paid for a land survey and they provided the full report and pictures to someone other than her.

Full story…

My neighbor is downsizing to a place down the road. Retired and recently widowed. Needs something smaller, etc.

Anyhow, she just stopped by and told me the strangest thing…

She is in escrow on this other home. It passed inspection and she was just waiting for the survey to come back.

The sellers refused to give any concession on the cost of the survey. Wouldn’t even split it…and were reluctant to add it to the contingencies. Absolutely refused to budge on any of the things that came up during the inspection. Also asked for a longer closing to give them time to find a house. She has been gracious while the sellers are being real jerks.

Fast forward to today, she gets the email from the surveyor with her the report and all the pictures. Get this…he copied the seller’s agent on the email. So, she paid for the survey that the seller’s refused to get or split the cost on…and they are going to get the full report anyhow.

I get that they will see the markers. But there’s a whole report that went with it, etc. I think she paid about $700-ish for the survey. Can’t remember the exact figure but it wasn’t a small amount of money for a retiree.

It seems bizarre to me to copy the seller’s agent on the survey results without her permission. She paid for the survey. Am I wrong? I told her that I didn’t think it was right but maybe it’s common practice?

She asked him why he sent it to the seller’s agent. She mentioned that they refused to give concessions for the survey, etc. He told her that he got the agents info off the for sale sign in the front, that they need to be aware of the boundary they are selling and that there shouldn’t be any secrets. She sent me a screen shot of his reply. He literally said those words to her.

She is elderly and I help her out quite a bit, which is why she is asking me for my thoughts. She’s upset that he sent it to them without her permission. Also…get this…the house encroaches in the other (vacant) lot next door, so I’m sure that’s upsetting her, as well. Not just a little…by a lot. Probably 1/3 of the house footprint is on the other property.

No effing way they didn’t know. Sellers had to have been aware of that, though I didn’t tell her that. There’s no way they didn’t know. I’m sure that’s probably why they were reluctant to put the survey as part of the contingencies.

Anyhow, what say you all? Does that seem weird to anyone else? Or is it standard practice to provide someone else the details of a survey that they didn’t pay for?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

I dunno. Why deal with a seller who's being an ass? Find another place.

[DAB]

1) don't buy that house.
2) help her out, give her the $700 she's spent
3) send letter to surveyor telling him he violated her contract with her, and her only. if the sellers wanted a survey, they can hire their own surveyor.
4) don't buy that house.

[ZipZap]

Tons of red flags there. If she can wait, then she should walk away.

[JRD77VET]

Weird? Not at all. Sellers can be fickle.


Shady as F*@%? YES!!!!! How would she get a clear title for the property she wants to buy when the house is on somebody else's property? A title search would show that as well.

The current owners should stay there until they die. There is no way they can sell that property free and clear.


RUN AWAY

Also, she should get a full refund for the survey since the guy shared it without her consent

[LisaJohn]

Big red flags!!! I would consider that $700 well spent to avoid buying this house.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Yep. Agree with you all.

I’ll be talking to her this evening. The whole situation doesn’t sit right. But then I was like…maybe I’m just being too cynical.

[mrvette]

Yeh, I know from my son's Ca. surveyor job that you can be off 1/4 inch and cover a vertical acre of ground really easy......BUTT how in HELL can a construction outfit build a house on other folks land?? anyone have SIDE/BACK yards there???

[Rodnok1]

Not surprising the survey was shared, however if the house has been built on someone else's property holy hell that's a big red flag.
Is the vacant lot part of the purchase? may have been part of same parcel at some point and surveyed incorrectly even. It would require digging up old surveys at a minimum (all at sellers expense).
I've seen people own 2 adjoining parcels, get permit to build on both without parcels being joined or special permits(for lack of better term). Probably an older house and regs were diff and records not kept in detail. Trip to building dept woukd be needed to check also see whats recorded.

[LisaJohn]

The first house my son bought was a garden home on a very small lot. He had it surveyed and found out the privacy fence was way over the property line. He almost backed out but the seller knew the builder and the builder moved the fence to the correct property line.

[Bill]

NAV, if your elderly friend wants to screw with the sellers, find out whose property the house is encroaching on, and give THEM a copy of the survey. I'm sure they would be interested to know that the neighbor's house is on their property. That right there would open a hornet's nest. Your friend can back out, $ 700 poorer, but have some satisfaction that her investment screwed over some rude, probably shady people. Heck, if she's got a little chutzpah, she could ask the neighbor to kick her back some money from the inevitable lawsuit over the encroachment.

The real estate agent didn't really do anything wrong, she received information on a listing. I guess we could say she should destroy it and pretend she never saw it, but, that's not really realistic. The surveyor probably shouldn't have sent a copy of his work to the RE agent, but as they say, you can't unring the bell. I don't see that there's any kind of civil tort there, but IANAL. Too bad Spence isn't still with us to give us his gin and kitty infused thoughts on the matter.

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

NAV, if your elderly friend wants to screw with the sellers, find out whose property the house is encroaching on, and give THEM a copy of the survey. I'm sure they would be interested to know that the neighbor's house is on their property. That right there would open a hornet's nest. Your friend can back out, $ 700 poorer, but have some satisfaction that her investment screwed over some rude, probably shady people. Heck, if she's got a little chutzpah, she could ask the neighbor to kick her back some money from the inevitable lawsuit over the encroachment.

The real estate agent didn't really do anything wrong, she received information on a listing. I guess we could say she should destroy it and pretend she never saw it, but, that's not really realistic. The surveyor probably shouldn't have sent a copy of his work to the RE agent, but as they say, you can't unring the bell. I don't see that there's any kind of civil tort there, but IANAL. Too bad Spence isn't still with us to give us his gin and kitty infused thoughts on the matter.

It's actually pretty normal to send stuff to the seller's agent. Whether it be a survey, inspection, etc. The big one here is the home possibly being on a neighbor's plat, as you said. That's f-ed up totally and I would present that to the current homeowner and say WTF?

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

NAV, if your elderly friend wants to screw with the sellers, find out whose property the house is encroaching on, and give THEM a copy of the survey. I'm sure they would be interested to know that the neighbor's house is on their property. That right there would open a hornet's nest. Your friend can back out, $ 700 poorer, but have some satisfaction that her investment screwed over some rude, probably shady people. Heck, if she's got a little chutzpah, she could ask the neighbor to kick her back some money from the inevitable lawsuit over the encroachment.

The real estate agent didn't really do anything wrong, she received information on a listing. I guess we could say she should destroy it and pretend she never saw it, but, that's not really realistic. The surveyor probably shouldn't have sent a copy of his work to the RE agent, but as they say, you can't unring the bell. I don't see that there's any kind of civil tort there, but IANAL. Too bad Spence isn't still with us to give us his gin and kitty infused thoughts on the matter.

Funny you mentioned that. When she put an offer on the house, she tried to buy that lot, as well. I guess she wanted it for parking or something. Her RE reached out to the owner but he doesn’t want to sell. It’s too small to build on…but come to find out it’s too small because that house is on it. I wonder what he’ll have to say when he finds out the house is on his property.

I’m headed to her house now to talk to her and her realtor. My advice is going to be to walk away and look for something else.

[snide]

Originally Posted by NEED-A-VETTE

I’m headed to her house now to talk to her and her realtor. My advise is going to be to walk away and look for something else.

Are you going to advice her to walk away from this deal?

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by snide

Are you going to advice her to walk away from this deal?

Yes.

[snide]

Originally Posted by NEED-A-VETTE

Yes.

[Torqaholic]

house footprint is on the other property

Wouldn't buy that. Opens her up to being bullied by authorities in the future.

I couldn't get a permit to build an attached garage within 20 feet of the property line to an empty lot. I own that lot.

[Millenium Vette]

I doubt it is unusual for the surveyor to send a copy to the seller/agent. It's not like it's anything confidential and it saves the buyer from providing proof of why they are walking, or running, away from the deal. She should be able to get any deposit money back because of it. They can't provide clear title to the property.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by Torqaholic

Wouldn't buy that. Opens her up to being bullied by authorities in the future.

I couldn't get a permit to build an attached garage within 20 feet of the property line to an empty lot. I own that lot.

I saw the pictures from the surveyor. Almost half the house is encroaching!!!

[NEED-A-VETTE]

tl;dr My neighbor will ask the vacant lot owner one more time if he wants to sell. It’s what she wanted in the first place. If he does not, she will pull back from the deal.

So, here’s the rest of the story…

First, a side story to further illustrate how much of a jerk these sellers are (which I just learned): The closing date is end of August. I already mentioned they gave her a hard time about the survey and some inspection items. They refused to pay for the survey and almost refused to allow for a contingency based on the survey coming out as expected (i.e., no property issues). There were a few items that needed fixing based on the survey that they refused to give credit for. (Mostly not willing to budge because they had other people waiting to make offers.)

Anyhow, the sellers were not going to be able to be out by the closing date. They were trying to pressure my neighbor into letting them stay in the house FOR FREE for another week (possibly longer) after closing until they could get their stuff moved out. In reality, it is their deadbeat 50+ year old son that was dragging his feet on getting out of mommy and daddy’s house and he need extra time. You can’t make this shit up.

These people were total assholes and then wanted accommodations when they’re in a tight spot. Thankfully, her realtor told her that wasn’t a good idea.

Ok…here’s the story of the house. This is from her RE agent (after he was able to do some digging).

House was built in 1972. It was two parcels owned by the same person. They built the house across the two parcels. The house fell into foreclosure in 2011 and the bank auctioned it off. They auctioned the parcels off separately. The current owners of each property purchased the parcels AND NO ONE EVER GOT A SURVEY!! The guy that bought the vacant lot never got a survey, nor did the current owners of the house. They guy with the vacant lot had/has no idea that the house is on his property. 😳

So, she pays for the survey and it gets sent to her and the seller’s agent. As soon and the seller’s agent got the email from the surveyor, she beelined it to the title company and filed an exception. Within like 30 minutes of getting the email. No phone call or attempt to contact to my neighbor’s realtor to try and discuss anything. Nothing.

Soooooooo, my neighbor’s RE agent is going to reach out to the property owner of the vacant lot again to see if he will sell. That was what she originally wanted, anyhow. If not, she will be moving on from this house. The seller’s RE agent (after beelining it to the title company first) tried to act like it’s not a big deal and that it can be sorted out by a RE attorney “really easily”…but the sellers will not put any funds towards the real estate attorney.

If it were me, I’d bail now. Just on principle. Screw those people. But she likes the home and is hoping that she can but both lots and be done with it.

The good thing is that (if she bails) the seller (1) has to disclose the encroachment to any new buyers and (2) the owner of the other lot will be fully aware of the encroachment. (I think that’s why the seller’s RE agent is so desperately trying to not let this deal fall through.)

These people are a piece of work.