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Old 06-07-2021, 7:01pm   #61
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You're in luck, as I'm in the midst of conducting a meta-analysis on this very topic as part of an effort to teach myself R. The causes are varied and complex, but do not in any way lead to the conclusion that being black makes one commit more serious crimes, or be more likely to commit them. And, no, Blacks in the U.S. are not responsible for 95+% of "serious" crimes (a vague term to begin with).

The "Black = violent criminal" myth, like the "female wage gap" and "firearms = homicides" myths, stems largely from a gross inability for the majority of the population to understand math, much less basic to advanced statistical concepts.

The "13=52" rallying cry of racists is a raw reference to two data points--the percent of the population made up of Blacks and the percent of homicides committed by Blacks. (And if you think "13%=52%" is bad, wait until you learn that "0.24% = 5.8%". That's the percent of the population made up of Cops vs the percent of homicides committed by Cops.) But this ignores the great many causal factors that lead to this result. Let's start at the beginning…

We know that poverty is "sticky" in that people who are born into poverty are likely to still be impoverished when they have children. Violent and property crimes, due to a variety of economic factors, are more likely to be committed by those who are poor or impoverished. While Europe gets to be all self-righteous about their lower homicide and poverty rates, they also callously tossed aside their slave colonies as separate nations, and now get to conveniently exclude them from their national statistics. The U.S., on the other hand, had largely retained our enslaved population within our borders following the Civil War. And though we rightfully banned slavery, things didn't magically become easy for Blacks overnight. Many decades of racism, anti-Black legislation, and other factors ensured that poverty and myths about them would remain in place for the vast majority of their population for a very long time. There were exceptions, but outliers don't disprove trends.

Fast forward to more modern times and, while much progress has been made, it's only been a few generations and there are still other factors in play. As someone else correctly pointed out, the likelihood that one will commit homicide is strongly correlated with being raised by a single mother. Economics plays a role here as well, but also:
- Blacks are typically given longer prison sentences for equal crimes
- Blacks are more likely to be falsely imprisoned for a crime they didn't commit
- They suffer from higher conviction rates for equal crimes
- The simple fact that city populations are proportionately more Black than rural populations. Cities naturally have higher violent crime rates due to a higher density of stressors and contacts, yielding more opportunities for things to go wrong between individuals, that are also more likely to go wrong.

These factors above, combined with others, results in many Black children being raised without fathers. That lack of income source and male guidance, unsurprisingly, perpetuates cycles of poverty and violence.

There are also police-related impacts. For instance, a police officer is nearly 3,000 times more likely to kill a Black person than a Black person is to kill a police officer. Unsurprisingly, this leads to the Black community being less likely to want to call the Police, who are by far the most violent group in America. We also have a tendency for a large part of the White population to view citizens as subservient to the Government, and that the life of a police officer (who is human) is more valuable than the life of the Black person that officer kills (who is also human)--this feeds back into the false belief that Blacks deserve to be treated poorly.

We also have the bi-partisan War on Drugs, a colossal failure and waste of money. The primarily-White purchasers are given light sentences and offers of treatment, whereas the primarily-Black and -Hispanic sellers and transporters of the product are given harsh sentences and often killed, despite both groups being equally responsible for the drug trade. Simple legalization without draconian taxation would eliminate most of this issue.

Finally, there's a tendency for racists to pretend that defensive firearm usage is only something that White people do. Every Black shooting, in their mind, is yet another example of "Black violence" whereas a White person shooting someone to death to defend himself is "exercising his Constitutional rights".
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~Jesse Jackson

...
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Old 06-07-2021, 7:15pm   #62
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On the one hand, yes, understanding cause and effect is important. But on the other hand, legality is not the same thing as morality, ethics, or natural rights. See: 1930s-1940s Germany. Our country was founded by great people who nonetheless destroyed businesses, looted, killed, sacked homes, and resisted those who, in modern parlance, would be called "law enforcement officers". They were smart enough to recognize that liberty and morality were more important than the law. And once we gained our freedom from England, we did not have state-controlled law enforcement the way we do today because they knew that government oppression is very real, and very bad for individual liberty.

I'm super curious to see if the people who keep droning the "just obey the law if you don't want to get hurt" concept still feel the same way when the left finally manages to push through firearms confiscation. Well...more firearms confiscation.

"It's the law, bro, don't fight back! Just give them your guns!"

The right certainly proved on January 6th that they don't care about laws. Except when it's Black people disobeying.

And even when police kill Black people who literally did nothing wrong or illegal, bootlickers still demonstrate a callous disregard for their lives. For those types, their entire world view is that people should be subservient to the government--that is, right up until the government does something that affects them personally.
The issue is not if police arw bad mean racist whatever term you like... It's the person himself (herself). No occupation makes you a better person nor a worse person. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of whoever does the deed. If he's black and robs somebody or white that kills somebody. Quit blaming everyone else and take fukin responsibility for one's own actions. If the stats show blacks commit more crime ok, if stats show more blacks in prison ok..
Facts are facts and comparing "obey the law" by not committing crimes which all can agree arw crimes to political revolt is narrow minded at best let alone comparing today's society to the fukin Nazi regime. You might want to have a beer with Derf if that's what you think.
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Old 06-07-2021, 7:21pm   #63
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Fair enough. I present two counterpoints. Please explain.

1. You mentioned poverty of blacks is a big cause of black crime/violence. Would you say most Jews came over to the US over the past century with lots of money?

My family immigrated from Belorussia (Belarus). Part of them in the 1890's and the other half after The Holocaust (the few that hadn't been gassed to death). ALL of them came over dirt poor. They settled in Jewish neighborhoods in Boston and NYC were the MAJORITY of the Jewish immigrants were dirt poor. They experienced widespread antisemitism. From the time they immigrated (1890's) all the way through the 1960's-1970's. Yet, they all studied hard, worked sheet jobs, and got ahead. Not turned to crime despite no opportunity and being poor.

My grandfather got a PhD in 1937. If you're not aware, in 1937, a PhD was a VERY big deal. I'll say less than 0.01% of the population had a PhD back then.

He was turned down for multiple professor positions at multiple universities in Philly, Boston, and NYC. Multiple times, they flat out told him "We have no place for another Jew". Dead serious. Can you get much more antisemitic?

So he worked even harder to take a low level HS principal position (back in the 1940's--a HS principal made crap money--this was before public sector unions). My family lived at the "bottom of the barrel". They were poor as F. Having steak once each 3-4 months was a dam delicacy.

Despite this, everybody in my family worked hard. None had kids at age 15. They ended up graduating from Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, and NYU and all made something of themselves.

So tell me again how blacks were treated "disproportionately bad" after the Civil Rights Act and couldn't get ahead the same way my Jewish family did?
This is called an "anecdote" and does not even rate as the lowest form of evidence. It falls squarely in the category of "not evidence" along with gut feelings and "my buddy said".

Did you consider that perhaps physical attributes make it move obvious that certain people are definitely Black as compared to whether or not others are definitely Jewish? Did you consider the effects of regional distribution across the U.S. and the variations in opportunities (or lack thereof)? And, again, outliers don't disprove trends. The trend amongst people without means is that they can't pay for better legal defenses, that they have more contacts with law enforcement due to unequal distribution of police forces, that the lack of wealth means they have less to lose--promoting participation in illegal (but not necessarily wrong) activities.

The war on drugs wasn't kicked off with claims that "Jewish men will rape your women." So don't try to pretend the two groups were treated the same. Anti-Semitism is also wrong, but the degree of oppression was not equal between Jews and Blacks in the U.S. at that time.

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2. You mentioned how bad cops are. Agreed there are alot of bad apples behind the blue. But do you think a decent number of them go rogue from dealing with sheet bags all day, every day? Is there any possibility?
If this were the case, you would see the rate of homicides committed by police increase with years of experience, after controlling for age.

But let's take your question to its logical conclusion. If cops "go rogue" and become bad because they're dealing with "sheet bags", and those "sheet bags" are presumably mostly Blacks (as per your original post), wouldn't that also mean that the same effect would cause Blacks to "go rogue" and become bad? After all, they're dealing with those same people? So if what you ask were true, why should cops get a pass for their actions stemming from the same cause, but Blacks should not?

Let's also not forget that law enforcement is a job. Unlike being Black, you choose it. This means, by definition, it will draw a certain personality type. It should come as no surprise, then, that a sworn officer is 16.5 times more likely to commit homicide than a Black person. It's even more sad because they often lament about how dangerous their jobs are, but they don't even make the top 10--they're way behind airline pilots, roofers, and taxi drivers.

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3. I'm adding a point. Many Asians come to the US poor as F. From Vietnam, Laos, etc. How come they aren't represented in the same way blacks are as far as crime statistics? Or are they simply "not discriminated against"? I'd make the argument being Asian is immensely harder than being black over the past 20+ years in the US.
For the many reasons I already listed, and others. Remember that immigrants bring with them the cultural norms of their source country, including the types of jobs they tend to choose, and differences in how their communities operate. And, again, their race is in a general sense obvious from their physical attributes, so you still wind up with the effects of how others treat them based on their own biases and beliefs.

Even today, study after study shows that a resume with a name that "sounds Black" is significantly more likely to be rejected than an identical resume with a name that sounds White or Asian.

The simple fact is that how successful a group can be on average is controlled, in part, by how other groups perceive them.
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Old 06-07-2021, 7:23pm   #64
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Cliffs?
Mostly a bunch of convoluted egghead horseshit to justify and excuse the ungodly amount of crime and violence committed by blacks. Of course it all boils down to honkey be raysus and sheeeit. Just realize this poster was/is an annoying know-it-all over at the other place.
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Old 06-07-2021, 7:32pm   #65
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Mostly a bunch of convoluted egghead horseshit to justify and excuse the ungodly amount of crime and violence committed by blacks. Of course it all boils down to honkey be raysus and sheeeit. Just realize this poster was/is an annoying know-it-all over at the other place.
This has been a very civil discussion about a contentious topic. We’re all adults. Leave the personal attacks at the door.
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Old 06-07-2021, 7:50pm   #66
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This is called an "anecdote" and does not even rate as the lowest form of evidence. It falls squarely in the category of "not evidence" along with gut feelings and "my buddy said".

Did you consider that perhaps physical attributes make it move obvious that certain people are definitely Black as compared to whether or not others are definitely Jewish? Did you consider the effects of regional distribution across the U.S. and the variations in opportunities (or lack thereof)? And, again, outliers don't disprove trends. The trend amongst people without means is that they can't pay for better legal defenses, that they have more contacts with law enforcement due to unequal distribution of police forces, that the lack of wealth means they have less to lose--promoting participation in illegal (but not necessarily wrong) activities.

The war on drugs wasn't kicked off with claims that "Jewish men will rape your women." So don't try to pretend the two groups were treated the same. Anti-Semitism is also wrong, but the degree of oppression was not equal between Jews and Blacks in the U.S. at that time.



If this were the case, you would see the rate of homicides committed by police increase with years of experience, after controlling for age.

But let's take your question to its logical conclusion. If cops "go rogue" and become bad because they're dealing with "sheet bags", and those "sheet bags" are presumably mostly Blacks (as per your original post), wouldn't that also mean that the same effect would cause Blacks to "go rogue" and become bad? After all, they're dealing with those same people? So if what you ask were true, why should cops get a pass for their actions stemming from the same cause, but Blacks should not?

Let's also not forget that law enforcement is a job. Unlike being Black, you choose it. This means, by definition, it will draw a certain personality type. It should come as no surprise, then, that a sworn officer is 16.5 times more likely to commit homicide than a Black person. It's even more sad because they often lament about how dangerous their jobs are, but they don't even make the top 10--they're way behind airline pilots, roofers, and taxi drivers.



For the many reasons I already listed, and others. Remember that immigrants bring with them the cultural norms of their source country, including the types of jobs they tend to choose, and differences in how their communities operate. And, again, their race is in a general sense obvious from their physical attributes, so you still wind up with the effects of how others treat them based on their own biases and beliefs.

Even today, study after study shows that a resume with a name that "sounds Black" is significantly more likely to be rejected than an identical resume with a name that sounds White or Asian.

The simple fact is that how successful a group can be on average is controlled, in part, by how other groups perceive them.
So you're saying there hasn't been a long history of blatant antisemitism in the US? There's been plenty of racism, but much less antisemitism? Hmmm, what about these "anecdotal" incidents?

The FBI says Jews are 2.7x more likely to be hate crime victims than blacks. So why are blacks failing again? Shouldn't it be the Jews who are failing?

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-2...-crime-victim/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quota

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...merica/574228/
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Old 06-08-2021, 7:05am   #67
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In many cases, mine included have more than enough personal experiences over the years to make valid judgements on serious subjects.

I grew up in the South end of Albany. (definitely the wrong side of the tracks) graduated from a high school deep in the ghetto that was very heavily black and saw plenty. That was a big reason I moved out to a big suburban town sort of close to Albany. Thats called white flight.

Of curse things got progressively worse (the demographics of the population was changing) and not for the better! When we retired as the "problems'' were moving closer we again moved to what used to be our summer camp.

Now live out at least 25 miles from a small city and close to 50 to a large one so a lot of the urban problems are a moot point. I now live in a very large in area with a small in population of year around people (town is just a little over a 1,000.) We have no blacks living in the town and very few know it all liberals.

Its going to be a great place to be when all the awful shit that is going on hits the fan. Like I have said many times I'm now 76 failing health and believe I will see the start of CW2 in my lifetime.
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Old 06-08-2021, 8:36am   #68
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see? you're in need of puppies
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Old 06-08-2021, 7:12pm   #69
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see? you're in need of puppies
That puppy is cute and all, but do you have any pics of sweater puppies?
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Old 06-08-2021, 8:17pm   #70
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More thread shitting from Slo yelo, ****
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