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Old 02-28-2018, 12:28pm   #1
lspencer534
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Default Oklahoma mother, daughter and an armed robber...

Heart-stopping surveillance footage captured a mother and daughter using their own weapons to fight off an armed robber at their family-owned Oklahoma liquor store.

The incident occurred Thursday night at Forest Acres Liquor in Tulsa while Tina Ring, 53, and her daughter Ashley Lee, 30, were working.

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Old 02-28-2018, 12:32pm   #2
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in the end, it was a good outcome for the ladies.

but.....

they did several things wrong you can learn from:

keep the gun on you, not under the counter.
use both hands to hold the pistol.
get a full capacity, full sized 9mm pistol with good JHP ammo.
keep shooting until the threat stops attacking you.
call the cops when the threat is no longer a threat, not while you are trying to shoot him.

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Old 02-28-2018, 1:27pm   #3
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At about the 1:30 mark, the daughter nearly shoots her mother.
Glad it worked out OK for them, but I sure would like them to get some training.
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Old 02-28-2018, 2:50pm   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAB View Post
in the end, it was a good outcome for the ladies.

but.....

they did several things wrong you can learn from:

keep the gun on you, not under the counter.
use both hands to hold the pistol.
get a full capacity, full sized 9mm pistol with good JHP ammo.
keep shooting until the threat stops attacking you.
call the cops when the threat is no longer a threat, not while you are trying to shoot him.


Also, owning a business that has a high potential for being a target, they should have taken some firearm self defense training. So that they would have known just what you stated, and also had some practice under their belts.
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Old 02-28-2018, 2:53pm   #5
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Also, owning a business that has a high potential for being a target, they should have taken some firearm self defense training. So that they would have known just what you stated, and also had some practice under their belts.
hopefully, they will change how they operate that place going forward, and will adopt some different practices.

me? if i had been running the till under the same circumstances, that guy would not be alive in all likely hood.

if you don't want to get shot, don't point a gun at someone else.
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Old 02-28-2018, 3:12pm   #6
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hopefully, they will change how they operate that place going forward, and will adopt some different practices.

me? if i had been running the till under the same circumstances, that guy would not be alive in all likely hood.

if you don't want to get shot, don't point a gun at someone else.
Both of them hesitated at several points, giving the robber opportunity. Opportunity that he seized upon. He was determined and committed, which is what the women needed to be in that situation. You have to know before the situation happens what you are going to do and how you are going to react. You can't second guess yourself when you are in the middle of it. You sure as hell can't second guess once you have chosen to act, and that is exactly what they were doing. They weren't sure on how to read everything that was developing along with the speed at which it was, and how to react to it. When they weren't sure, they retreated. You see that happen several times. This is where where training and at least some forethought and planning pay off.
The women could have been easily killed from them giving up the fight and advantage once they started. They are lucky that they weren't.
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Old 02-28-2018, 3:18pm   #7
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took 2 new shooters to the range sunday, to do a safety checkout so they can shoot in our next IDPA match this saturday. they passed with flying colors. so to wrap up the day, we did a little shooting on the clock.

one string of fire was to have exactly 5 rounds in your pistol, at the beep, draw, shoot 5 shots, reload, and shoot 5 more shots.

from watching them, they were not used to such shooting and reloading. they did that string of fire in 12 to 17 seconds. my best run was 7.37 seconds. practice pays off.

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Old 02-28-2018, 3:40pm   #8
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Too bad they didn't kill his ass..
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Old 02-28-2018, 4:22pm   #9
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Too bad they didn't kill his ass..
I think they were both very fortunate that incident didn't go badly for them.
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Old 02-28-2018, 4:37pm   #10
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One thing for sure, dude has extra holes that he didn't have before. Too bad one of the holes wasn't in a life ending place.
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Old 02-28-2018, 4:58pm   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAB View Post
in the end, it was a good outcome for the ladies.

but.....

they did several things wrong you can learn from:

keep the gun on you, not under the counter.
use both hands to hold the pistol.
get a full capacity, full sized 9mm pistol with good JHP ammo.
keep shooting until the threat stops attacking you.
call the cops when the threat is no longer a threat, not while you are trying to shoot him.

That is how I have always understood it. When you draw your weapon it is with the intent of you live, they die. Keep firing until your gun is empty, even if they appear to be DRT. This ain't TV.
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Old 02-28-2018, 5:07pm   #12
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That is how I have always understood it. When you draw your weapon it is with the intent of you live, they die. Keep firing until your gun is empty, even if they appear to be DRT. This ain't TV.
i was discussing this same video on FB, and noted that i think too many people believe movies and TV shows - they show some guy getting shot and being flung 10 feet away. that's fiction, not reality.

a decent 9mm JHP has about 320 ft-lb of energy when it leaves the barrel. so assuming perfect energy transfer, it would move a 320 pound dude one foot max. not 10 feet.

someone else asked "what round will stop an attacker now!?" none sweetie. do a mag dump until they stop attacking. 15-19 rounds to start.
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Old 02-28-2018, 7:23pm   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAB View Post
i was discussing this same video on FB, and noted that i think too many people believe movies and TV shows - they show some guy getting shot and being flung 10 feet away. that's fiction, not reality.

a decent 9mm JHP has about 320 ft-lb of energy when it leaves the barrel. so assuming perfect energy transfer, it would move a 320 pound dude one foot max. not 10 feet.

someone else asked "what round will stop an attacker now!?" none sweetie. do a mag dump until they stop attacking. 15-19 rounds to start.


It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Old 02-28-2018, 8:11pm   #14
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What round will stop an attacker right now? At the distance shown in the OPs video I would suggest a magnum 00 buckshot round delivered by 12 gauge. Hit anywhere near center mass and say goodnight robber.
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Old 02-28-2018, 9:24pm   #15
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Also, a person has to be honest with themselves.
Can you kill another human being?

We all say "yeah sure, in self-defense and defense of others. Sure, I could do it"
That's easy enough to say, but you have to mentally put yourself in that position and be honest with yourself.
Some people can't do it. They think they can do it. They think just displaying and brandishing the weapon is enough.
These women weren't sure until their self-preservation lobe kicked in.

Displaying a weapon that you aren't willing to use to it's full effect, is just arming your enemy with it. Which is what happened here.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:16am   #16
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I've been shooting for more that 50 years. Lots of types and competitions.
Luckily I have been fortunate enough to train with police and military personal enough to know that I am not in their league.

My wife and I watched this on Live PD and all we could think about was the poor gun handling and how lucky they were to have survived that encounter.

This video should be a case study, and broken down to teach the correct way to fight with a gun.

Thank God they made it through!
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:28am   #17
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and this morning's news from San Francisco: cops fire 65 times, don't hit anyone. time to hit the range for some practice boys.

San Francisco cops fire 65 shots in 15 seconds at murder suspect in dramatic video | Fox News
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:22pm   #18
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and this morning's news from San Francisco: cops fire 65 times, don't hit anyone. time to hit the range for some practice boys.

San Francisco cops fire 65 shots in 15 seconds at murder suspect in dramatic video | Fox News
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Old 03-01-2018, 1:44pm   #19
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From the comments in the link:

Quote:
"Gotta ask yourself...did they fire 65 shots, or only 64?. Do you feel lucky?...well, do you, punk?"
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Old 03-01-2018, 5:15pm   #20
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Wow, 65 shots and not one hit the bad guy? SF makes poor cops with their liberal policies.
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