Trump is right...

[Craig]

Originally Posted by The_Dude

That whole process was started under Bush. Granted, Obama could have stopped it, but lacked the desire.

It was working under Bush, it was wasted under Obama.

[Cybercowboy]

Originally Posted by Craig

To believe this, wouldn't you have to assume that all the Republican candidates were in on it; and the states, red, blue and purple, since they set their own primary dates?

Some were. Graham, Santorum, Kasich, Pataki certainly were. There's no downside for them, and they are just being good GOPe members, doing what the party suggests, getting something in return. They don't have to be told directly "Here's the plan, now go forth and do our bidding!" Not at all. They are just nudged by party leadership to run, offered fully-funded PACs, and help with organizing their campaigns. For instance, Graham never even bothered to get on the ballot of many other states. He wasn't serious for a minute. And he would still be around if it wasn't for Trump.

There was never any public support for these guys. Walker actually had non-GOPe popular support, but his campaign imploded for whatever reason. My guess is more inside politics were involved. Fiorina and Carson, they never threatened the pathway for Jeb or Rubio. Of the remaining placeholders, they are polling nationally at a combined 5% if you count Christie, and 9% if you count Huckabee. And they are flatlined in the Michigan poll, just 5% between the four of them. Huckabee and Santorum are the only placeholders with a legitimate reason to still be in (they have won Iowa before) but the rest? Hah.

Every one of the placeholders would still be in if it wasn't for Trump. Their money dried up once it became so bleeding obvious what was going on. Seriously, when was the last time in your memory when there was 17 funded primary candidates in one party? I mean, come on!

Think of the placeholders as splitters. All of this was figured out very early in the campaign by some people who have been uncanny accurate since then. Even Nate Silver noticed.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Craig

Obama owns it, our presence there made sure the 1% of the population that are terrorists, didn't take over. When we surrendered and left, they were back in business, and then some.

Obama got elected in large part because Joe Citizen was tired of seeing America's best come home in wheelchairs and body bags. WWII was won in 4 years. People don't want never ending war, generally. Only the military industrial complex relishes that.

Americans were lead to believe that Iraq would have been similar to Panama....short and easy. It wasn't. America elected Obama to stop the body bags from coming home. He did, with notable ex eptions like Benghazi.

[Admiral Blue]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

notable ex eptions like Benghazi.

That was due to a youtube video. I am so glad it was not as if Hillary and others were responsible for that horrible event -- I would not want it to jeopardize her ability to be elected.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Admiral Blue

That was due to a youtube video. I am so glad it was not as if Hillary and others were responsible for that horrible event -- I would not want it to jeopardize her ability to be elected.

Whoever callex those planes back from Italy should be in Leavenworth right now, as well as everyone else who was in on it. The last time I remember anything that horrificwas when LBJ called back the rescue planes when the USS Liberty sailors were being murdered.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

Some were. Graham, Santorum, Kasich, Pataki certainly were. There's no downside for them, and they are just being good GOPe members, doing what the party suggests, getting something in return. They don't have to be told directly "Here's the plan, now go forth and do our bidding!" Not at all. They are just nudged by party leadership to run, offered fully-funded PACs, and help with organizing their campaigns. For instance, Graham never even bothered to get on the ballot of many other states. He wasn't serious for a minute. And he would still be around if it wasn't for Trump.

There was never any public support for these guys. Walker actually had non-GOPe popular support, but his campaign imploded for whatever reason. My guess is more inside politics were involved. Fiorina and Carson, they never threatened the pathway for Jeb or Rubio. Of the remaining placeholders, they are polling nationally at a combined 5% if you count Christie, and 9% if you count Huckabee. And they are flatlined in the Michigan poll, just 5% between the four of them. Huckabee and Santorum are the only placeholders with a legitimate reason to still be in (they have won Iowa before) but the rest? Hah.

Every one of the placeholders would still be in if it wasn't for Trump. Their money dried up once it became so bleeding obvious what was going on. Seriously, when was the last time in your memory when there was 17 funded primary candidates in one party? I mean, come on!

Think of the placeholders as splitters. All of this was figured out very early in the campaign by some people who have been uncanny accurate since then. Even Nate Silver noticed.

Then why didn't the GOP just stiff-arm Trump. If he had gone independent, their plan would have still worked. -or- Once the Trump debacle started, pick the best candidate and throw all the support behind them?

[Craig]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Obama got elected in large part because Joe Citizen was tired of seeing America's best come home in wheelchairs and body bags. WWII was won in 4 years. People don't want never ending war, generally. Only the military industrial complex relishes that.

Americans were lead to believe that Iraq would have been similar to Panama....short and easy. It wasn't. America elected Obama to stop the body bags from coming home. He did, with notable ex eptions like Benghazi.

Sometimes a leader has to do what's right, verses what's popular; that's a leader, verses a human weather-vane.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Craig

Sometimes a leader has to do what's right, verses what's popular; that's a leader, verses a human weather-vane.

A whole zeries of Libertarian candidates have stood up to do exactly that, what's right. And guess what? Besides me and a dozen others, no one even remembers who they are now.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

A whole zeries of Libertarian candidates have stood up to do exactly that, what's right. And guess what? Besides me and a dozen others, no one even remembers who they are now.

They have to get elected first...

...and to do that, they'll have to stop smoking weed.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Craig

They have to get elected first...

...and to do that, they'll have to stop smoking weed.

That is exactly why I am breaking ranks to vote Trump. I think there are enough people who are just plain angry to get him elected.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

That is exactly why I am breaking ranks to vote Trump. I think there are enough people who are just plain angry to get him elected.

Replace his name with Obama...welcome to eight years ago.

[Cybercowboy]

Originally Posted by Craig

Then why didn't the GOP just stiff-arm Trump. If he had gone independent, their plan would have still worked. -or- Once the Trump debacle started, pick the best candidate and throw all the support behind them?

They tried! Remember the "pledge" they all but forced him to take on stage of the second debate? If he had refused, they would have not let him run as an R. But, since he did, what could they do? Forcing him out of the party then would have just made an utter shit storm for them. It would have all but guaranteed Hillary as POTUS.

Read that first link in that block of text you quoted. Read the whole thing. That was written last August. It has held up perfectly. Sure, some of the players have dropped out, but only because even back then Trump's surging campaign had utterly derailed carefully laid 2 year old plans.

The reason there were so many funded candidates was to split states where Jeb would maybe only get 25% of the vote, so that nobody else would get any more than 25%. And with only the first 8 states, paltry states delegate-wise, being awarded proportionally, the remaining states were all winner-take-all. So the idea was to carefully split as needed, allowing Jeb to win the nomination but never actually get a simple majority of the votes in any given state. Really. It was just that simple, and it would have worked, if not for that meddling Trump.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Craig

Replace his name with Obama...welcome to eight years ago.

Mass deportation of illegals and a halt to Muslim immigrants....if he gets only those two things right and screws up every other thing, it will be a win. I think he will get a few more things right, though.

[Cybercowboy]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Mass deportation of illegals and a halt to Muslim immigrants....if he gets only those two things right and screws up every other thing, it will be a win. I think he will get a few more things right, though.

His tax plan isn't half bad either, and he doesn't support the terrible Pacific Trade Agreement, and the Chamber of Commerce hates him. They are pathetic and do not have American's interests at heart. Right there is enough for me to support him and not any of the others. Cruz would be challenged as not elligible (it's OK for Democrats to do that, trust me), and probably Rubio too. Paul isn't going anywhere this cycle, none of the others do a thing for me, and I wouldn't cast a vote for Jeb! if you paid me. A lot.

[Fasglas]

Originally Posted by Craig

Obama owns it, our presence there made sure the 1% of the population that are terrorists, didn't take over. When we surrendered and left, they were back in business, and then some.

Don't forget the "architect" of Libya/Benghazi, Arab Spring, etc., with each highlighting vast experience in foreign affairs...

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

They tried! Remember the "pledge" they all but forced him to take on stage of the second debate? If he had refused, they would have not let him run as an R. But, since he did, what could they do? Forcing him out of the party then would have just made an utter shit storm for them. It would have all but guaranteed Hillary as POTUS.

Read that first link in that block of text you quoted. Read the whole thing. That was written last August. It has held up perfectly. Sure, some of the players have dropped out, but only because even back then Trump's surging campaign had utterly derailed carefully laid 2 year old plans.

The reason there were so many funded candidates was to split states where Jeb would maybe only get 25% of the vote, so that nobody else would get any more than 25%. And with only the first 8 states, paltry states delegate-wise, being awarded proportionally, the remaining states were all winner-take-all. So the idea was to carefully split as needed, allowing Jeb to win the nomination but never actually get a simple majority of the votes in any given state. Really. It was just that simple, and it would have worked, if not for that meddling Trump.

You keep coming back to giving it to Jeb; why work so hard t back an unpopular candidate?

[Craig]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Mass deportation of illegals and a halt to Muslim immigrants...

The whole immigration thing has been such a red-herring; it's the least of our problems.

[Cybercowboy]

I'm not trying to convince people who, for various reasons, think Trump is a bad idea to just start supporting Trump. That would be like trying to tell your 17-year-old daughter that her boyfriend is bad for her and she should break up with him. No. I want them to figure it out on their own that the GOPe has been playing them for fools this election cycle, even more so than they do usually. And you have to hand it to Trump. He has exposed even Fox News' machinations and conflicts. He has exposed all sorts of behind the scenes things. He has exposed radio talk show hosts as being secretly (and not so secretly) in the tank for one of the candidates. For instance, Mark Levin's financee' is the mother of Ted Cruz's chief senate staffer. Did you know that? I didn't until Team Trump tweeted that out.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

...I wouldn't cast a vote for Jeb! if you paid me. A lot.

Jeb isn't my favorite, but I've got to ask: Isn't not voting for him because of his last name just as lame as voting for Hillary because she's a woman, or Obama because he's black?

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

I'm not trying to convince people who, for various reasons, think Trump is a bad idea to just start supporting Trump. That would be like trying to tell your 17-year-old daughter that her boyfriend is bad for her and she should break up with him. No. I want them to figure it out on their own that the GOPe has been playing them for fools this election cycle, even more so than they do usually. And you have to hand it to Trump. He has exposed even Fox News' machinations and conflicts. He has exposed all sorts of behind the scenes things. He has exposed radio talk show hosts as being secretly (and not so secretly) in the tank for one of the candidates. For instance, Mark Levin's financee' is the mother of Ted Cruz's chief senate staffer. Did you know that? I didn't until Team Trump tweeted that out.

Even if all of the conspiracy stuff is true, it doesn't change the fact that he isn't a good candidate for President. His inexperience, his lack of knowledge of the issues, his temperament, his thin-skin. He'll be a disaster, not that he has a chance of being elected.

Now...I've got to go sit in traffic...it's been fun...