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Old 12-10-2012, 1:55pm   #21
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Because allowing companies to fire people for breaking policy, is communistic.
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Old 12-10-2012, 2:16pm   #22
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likely the employees argued that no one had proven that they were in fact drinking booze or smoking pot. for all anyone knew, they were drinking Nehi pop and smoking Camels.

if you can't prove it, it didn't happen.
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Old 12-10-2012, 2:28pm   #23
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Relevant -

Economists: Right-to-work states have lower-income residents, poor labor relations

Gov. Rick Snyder has contended that right-to-work legislation may boost Michigan’s economic performance and attract new investments, but economists challenged those assertions Thursday, pointing out that wages and benefits tend to fall in right-to-work states and that Michigan has been a leader in attracting new investments for decades.

“Right to work is not high on employers’ things to consider when they move to a state,” Dale Belman, a professor at Michigan State University’s School of Human Resources and Labor Relations, said Thursday. “For existing employers it doesn’t provide a benefit and may be a detriment,” he said, because of worsening labor relations in right-to-work states.

Site Selection magazine has often ranked Michigan at or near the top of its annual list of states gaining the most new business location decisions. Michigan, for example, ranked first in the nation from 1997 to 2000 in the annual list – all when Michigan was not a right-to-work state.

And a new study by the Washington, D.C.-based technology group Engine Advocacy reported this month that Michigan ranked third among the 50 states for growth in new technology jobs between 2010 and 2011, with a growth rate in tech jobs of 6.9%, well above the national average of 2.6%.

Backers of right to work applauded the Thursday announcement from Snyder and legislative leaders that they would try to make Michigan a right-to-work state.

“It would be the most important economic reform in decades and it would make Michigan immediately more competitive regionally, nationally and internationally,” said Charlie Owens, state director for the National Federation of Independent Business. “Small business owners have waited years for this reform and they are geared up for the fight.”

Partisans on either side of the issue hurled accusations as protestors walked the hallways of the Capitol in Lansing. State police sprayed mace at a group that tried to rush the Senate floor.

Charles Ballard, a professor of economics at Michigan State University, said the right-to-work legislation, while freighted with symbolic significance for Michigan, would likely produce a minimal impact for the state’s economy and jobs market.

He noted that union membership as a percentage of the workforce in Michigan has declined over the past six decades, “so in a sense the advocates of right-to-work have already won.”

“If what we want to do is do a little bit better at attracting certain kinds of low-wage jobs, I think this may help,” Ballard said. “But it’s an awful lot of political blood to be spilled for something that will not galvanize Michigan’s economy.”

When right-to-work laws were first implemented decades ago, those first states benefitted with increased employment because companies and jobs migrated there in search of the lower wages, Belman said. But that impact has faded over time as more states joined those ranks and as unions have agreed to concessionary demands from employers, he said.

The data on wages tell a fairly clear story. Of the top 10 states in per capita income in 2011, seven were not right-to work states. Of the bottom 10 states with the lowest per capital income, seven were right to work states.

“There is a lot of evidence that wages and benefits are lower in right-to-work states. There’s a redistribution of wages and benefits toward owners’ capital,” Belman said Thursday.

Timothy Bartik, senior economist with the Upjohn Institute for Employment Research in Kalamazoo, a non-profit non-partisan research center, agreed.

“I think the relevant issue that people should be asking themselves about right to work is what impact does it have on employment and what impact does it have on wages. And both of those questions are important,” he said.


Meanwhile, transforming Michigan into a right-to-work state is unlikely to change how manufacturers view the business dynamics in the state, said Art Schwartz, president of Labor and Economics Associates in Ann Arbor. That’s because any new auto manufacturer that locates in Michigan is still certain to face an organizing drive from the UAW.

“Even though they are going to put through right-to-work legislation Michigan is still the home of the UAW,” Schwartz said. “The other variables haven’t changed for Michigan. Just throwing this right-to-work switch from off to on doesn’t automatically light up Michigan as destination for manufacturers to locate.”

With both sides prepared for a long struggle over right to work, Belman said that Michigan will be the loser.

“We had bigger fish to fry than this,” Belman said. “It’s going to create a bloody mess in Michigan for years.”

Economists: Right-to-work states have lower-income residents, poor labor relations | Michigan Business | Detroit Free Press | freep.com
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Old 12-10-2012, 2:38pm   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Relevant -

Economists: Right-to-work states have lower-income residents, poor labor relations

Gov. Rick Snyder has contended that right-to-work legislation may boost Michigan’s economic performance and attract new investments, but economists challenged those assertions Thursday, pointing out that wages and benefits tend to fall in right-to-work states and that Michigan has been a leader in attracting new investments for decades.

“Right to work is not high on employers’ things to consider when they move to a state,” Dale Belman, a professor at Michigan State University’s School of Human Resources and Labor Relations, said Thursday. “For existing employers it doesn’t provide a benefit and may be a detriment,” he said, because of worsening labor relations in right-to-work states.

Site Selection magazine has often ranked Michigan at or near the top of its annual list of states gaining the most new business location decisions. Michigan, for example, ranked first in the nation from 1997 to 2000 in the annual list – all when Michigan was not a right-to-work state.

And a new study by the Washington, D.C.-based technology group Engine Advocacy reported this month that Michigan ranked third among the 50 states for growth in new technology jobs between 2010 and 2011, with a growth rate in tech jobs of 6.9%, well above the national average of 2.6%.

Backers of right to work applauded the Thursday announcement from Snyder and legislative leaders that they would try to make Michigan a right-to-work state.

“It would be the most important economic reform in decades and it would make Michigan immediately more competitive regionally, nationally and internationally,” said Charlie Owens, state director for the National Federation of Independent Business. “Small business owners have waited years for this reform and they are geared up for the fight.”

Partisans on either side of the issue hurled accusations as protestors walked the hallways of the Capitol in Lansing. State police sprayed mace at a group that tried to rush the Senate floor.

Charles Ballard, a professor of economics at Michigan State University, said the right-to-work legislation, while freighted with symbolic significance for Michigan, would likely produce a minimal impact for the state’s economy and jobs market.

He noted that union membership as a percentage of the workforce in Michigan has declined over the past six decades, “so in a sense the advocates of right-to-work have already won.”

“If what we want to do is do a little bit better at attracting certain kinds of low-wage jobs, I think this may help,” Ballard said. “But it’s an awful lot of political blood to be spilled for something that will not galvanize Michigan’s economy.”

When right-to-work laws were first implemented decades ago, those first states benefitted with increased employment because companies and jobs migrated there in search of the lower wages, Belman said. But that impact has faded over time as more states joined those ranks and as unions have agreed to concessionary demands from employers, he said.

The data on wages tell a fairly clear story. Of the top 10 states in per capita income in 2011, seven were not right-to work states. Of the bottom 10 states with the lowest per capital income, seven were right to work states.

“There is a lot of evidence that wages and benefits are lower in right-to-work states. There’s a redistribution of wages and benefits toward owners’ capital,” Belman said Thursday.

Timothy Bartik, senior economist with the Upjohn Institute for Employment Research in Kalamazoo, a non-profit non-partisan research center, agreed.

“I think the relevant issue that people should be asking themselves about right to work is what impact does it have on employment and what impact does it have on wages. And both of those questions are important,” he said.


Meanwhile, transforming Michigan into a right-to-work state is unlikely to change how manufacturers view the business dynamics in the state, said Art Schwartz, president of Labor and Economics Associates in Ann Arbor. That’s because any new auto manufacturer that locates in Michigan is still certain to face an organizing drive from the UAW.

“Even though they are going to put through right-to-work legislation Michigan is still the home of the UAW,” Schwartz said. “The other variables haven’t changed for Michigan. Just throwing this right-to-work switch from off to on doesn’t automatically light up Michigan as destination for manufacturers to locate.”

With both sides prepared for a long struggle over right to work, Belman said that Michigan will be the loser.

“We had bigger fish to fry than this,” Belman said. “It’s going to create a bloody mess in Michigan for years.”

Economists: Right-to-work states have lower-income residents, poor labor relations | Michigan Business | Detroit Free Press | freep.com
In a unionized state, the workers have to join a union and pay union dues and do whatever the union tells them to do. They have NO choice in the matter.

In a right to work state, the workers can join a union if they want to. If they don't, they don't have to.

What Joecooool has posted above is his smug, typical liberal attitude of "you're not smart enough to make your own decisions so we want to see that legislation forces you to do what we think is best for you."

Phil, FUCK YOU AND EVERYONE WHO HAS THIS CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE.

FUCK YOU VERY MUCH.
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Old 12-10-2012, 2:41pm   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
“We had bigger fish to fry than this,” Belman said. “It’s going to create a bloody mess in Michigan for years.”
Yeah, because things have been going so well with Michigan being a Union state.
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Old 12-10-2012, 2:44pm   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Six View Post
Phil, FUCK YOU AND EVERYONE WHO HAS THIS CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE.

FUCK YOU VERY MUCH.
This doesn't fly with me. Take a few days off and learn some control.

Anyone else? Anyone at all.
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Old 12-10-2012, 2:47pm   #27
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Quote:
Anyone else? Anyone at all?
I'll pass, but thanks for asking.
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Old 12-10-2012, 2:48pm   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lib blog
The data on wages tell a fairly clear story. Of the top 10 states in per capita income in 2011, seven were not right-to work states. Of the bottom 10 states with the lowest per capital income, seven were right to work states.
Just to clarify, the entire basis of the argument is that 7 of the bottom 10 are right to work states and vice versa for the top. Right-to-work is the only factor determining per capita income for those 20 states and the other near infinite list of variables, including such insignificant things as location and resources have absolutely nothing to do with it. Do I have that right?

Simple minded liberalism at it's finest.

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Old 12-10-2012, 3:02pm   #29
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Hmmmm....This ****ed up state (Maryland) per capita...and golly gee !!! We're right to work !!

Income
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Old 12-10-2012, 3:12pm   #30
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And Virginia is another "Right to Work" state.

Wages and Salaries
Coupled with employment growth, average annual wages and salaries give an even better picture of Virginia's economic health. In 2010, Virginia's average wage was $50,957, exceeding the national average ($47,046). New York led all states with an average wage of $59,545 in 2010. Maryland's average wage ($53,035) was higher than Virginia, while North Carolina ($42,203) and Tennessee ($41,053) had notably lower average wages. In 2011, Virginia again ranked seventh among the states in per capita personal income, with $45,920 per capita income. National per capita income stood at $41,633. The highest 2011 per capita income was in Connecticut at $56,889. (Another Right to Work state!)

Not too bad for a state where the workers cannot force other workers into their unions.
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Old 12-10-2012, 3:14pm   #31
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Originally Posted by GentleBen View Post
And Virginia is another "Right to Work" state.

Wages and Salaries
Coupled with employment growth, average annual wages and salaries give an even better picture of Virginia's economic health. In 2010, Virginia's average wage was $50,957, exceeding the national average ($47,046). New York led all states with an average wage of $59,545 in 2010. Maryland's average wage ($53,035) was higher than Virginia, while North Carolina ($42,203) and Tennessee ($41,053) had notably lower average wages. In 2011, Virginia again ranked seventh among the states in per capita personal income, with $45,920 per capita income. National per capita income stood at $41,633. The highest 2011 per capita income was in Connecticut at $56,889. (Another Right to Work state!)

Not too bad for a state where the workers cannot force other workers into their unions.
Yea, it's too bad they get to keep their extra $$$ instead of paying a union boss to steal their cash.
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Old 12-10-2012, 5:16pm   #32
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Md and Va, are such OVERPAID states, it's pathetic, at a job for job rate that is easy TWICE the rate the rest of the country gets.....

The FED.gov sets the pay scales, and the rest have to pretty much match it, who in hell NEEDS UNIONS when you got the political leadership in your ass pocket????

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Old 12-10-2012, 5:48pm   #33
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That's the relevant part. Your source is the Detroit Free Press, and we all know how well Detroit has been doing at attracting jobs. Just ask Michelle Conyers.

Quote:
“Even though they are going to put through right-to-work legislation Michigan is still the home of the UAW,” Schwartz said. “The other variables haven’t changed for Michigan. Just throwing this right-to-work switch from off to on doesn’t automatically light up Michigan as destination for manufacturers to locate.”
BMW-South Carolina
Nissan and VW - Tennessee
Mercedes and Kia - Alabama
MTU and Bridgestone - South Carolina

How's Michigan doing with getting those auto jobs?
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Old 12-10-2012, 7:25pm   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
That's the relevant part. Your source is the Detroit Free Press, and we all know how well Detroit has been doing at attracting jobs. Just ask Michelle Conyers.



BMW-South Carolina
Nissan and VW - Tennessee
Mercedes and Kia - Alabama
MTU and Bridgestone - South Carolina

How's Michigan doing with getting those auto jobs?

Don't forget the Toyota Tundras made right here in Texas.
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Old 12-10-2012, 7:55pm   #35
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w/ SeaSix
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Old 12-10-2012, 8:04pm   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Vette View Post
That's the relevant part. Your source is the Detroit Free Press, and we all know how well Detroit has been doing at attracting jobs. Just ask Michelle Conyers.



BMW-South Carolina
Nissan and VW - Tennessee
Mercedes and Kia - Alabama
MTU and Bridgestone - South Carolina

How's Michigan doing with getting those auto jobs?
And would you believe SC has surpassed MI as exporting the most vehicles? This is from the BMW Plant.
I wonder how that cost of living is doing in those fine Union States?
Indiana passed the Right To Work and has attracted new business.

Last edited by 09CTSV; 12-10-2012 at 8:16pm.
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Old 12-10-2012, 8:11pm   #37
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So JoeCooool can call the majority of people here a bunch of *Whiney assed bitches* and get a slap on the wrist, but when someone tells him to f off.........

Being a pet troll must have its benefits.........

Last edited by Blademaker; 12-10-2012 at 8:25pm.
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Old 12-10-2012, 8:17pm   #38
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I guess I could complain about what he wrote. But I didn't read it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 5:27am   #39
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You all have to be careful. Don't go confusing liberals with facts.
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Old 12-11-2012, 6:12am   #40
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And don't hold your breath waiting for an educated response from our resident LFT.
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