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06-28-2012, 11:24am | #61 | |||||||
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W. fucked that one up royally. |
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06-28-2012, 11:26am | #62 | |||||||
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This is not a run-of-the-mill political event.
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06-28-2012, 11:29am | #63 | |||||||
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06-28-2012, 11:30am | #64 | ||||||
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Haven't you heard, this is "A big, f'in deal".
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06-28-2012, 11:37am | #65 | ||||||
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Supreme Court upholds Obamacare 5-4; White House 'elated'
updated 12:29 PM EDT, Thu June 28, 2012 CNN.com Washington (CNN) -- In a landmark ruling that will impact the November election and the lives of every American, the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday upheld the controversial health care law championed by President Barack Obama. The narrow 5-4 ruling was a victory for Obama but also will serve as a rallying issue for Republicans calling for repeal of the Affordable Care Act passed by Democrats in 2010. An administration official described the White House reaction as elation, while GOP opponents criticized the high court's reasoning and promised an immediate repeal effort. Certain Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney's campaign reported an immediate fund-raising spike of $300,000. The decision impacts how Americans get medicine and health care, and also provides new court guidelines on federal power. In the ruling, the high court decided the most controversial provision -- the individual mandate requiring people to have health insurance -- is valid as a tax, even though it is impermissible under the Constitution's commerce clause. "In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. "Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax." He later added: "The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance. ... The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance." Roberts joined the high court's liberal wing -- Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan -- in upholding the law. Four conservative justices -- Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas -- dissented. "To say that the Individual Mandate merely imposes a tax is not to interpret the statute but to rewrite it," Scalia said in dissent. "Imposing a tax through judicial legislation inverts the constitutional scheme, and places the power to tax in the branch of government least accountable to the citizenry." The polarizing law, dubbed "Obamacare" by many, is the signature legislation of Obama's time in office. It helped spur the creation of the conservative tea party movement and will be a centerpiece of the presidential election campaign. Romney called Obamacare bad policy and a bad law, adding that defeating Obama in November is the only way to get rid of it. "What the court did not do in its last session, I will do on the first day if elected president of the United States, and that's to repeal Obamacare," he said Thursday after the court's decision was announced. Democrats, meanwhile, celebrated the policy victory. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Obama's former White House chief of staff, called it a "historic day." "The president had the courage to bend the needle of history and did something presidents have tried to do for 60 years," Emanuel said of broadening health care accessibility. In his opinion, Roberts appeared to note the political divisions of the health care law, writing that "we do not consider whether the act embodies sound policies." "That judgment is entrusted to the nation's elected leaders," the opinion said. "We ask only whether Congress has the power under the Constitution to enact the challenged provisions." The narrow focus of the ruling on key issues such as the individual mandate -- limiting it to taxing powers rather than general commerce -- represented the court's effort to limit the government's authority. "The framers created a federal government of limited powers and assigned to this court the duty of enforcing those limits," Roberts wrote. "The court does so today." The real people behind health care reform On the individual mandate, the opinion said that "the Affordable Care Act's requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax." "Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness," Roberts wrote. Republicans immediately seized on the ruling to accuse Obama of lying to the American people when he said during the protracted political debate on the bill in 2009 that it wasn't a tax. In an interview with ABC, Obama said then that the various provisions of the health care law were intended to create an all-inclusive system, so that penalizing people who refused to join was not a tax. "For us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase," Obama said, noting that "right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I'm not covering all the costs." Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, a leading tea party voice against the health care law, complained that the ruling "means now for the first time in the history of the country, Congress can force Americans to purchase any product, any service." "This is truly a turning point in American history. We'll never be the same way again," Bachmann said, adding that "this is a more far-reaching decision than anyone had expected or imagined." Roberts, however, wrote in the majority opinion that Congress exercised an authority it held to assess a tax, rather than create any new taxing authority. According to a poll released Tuesday, 37% of Americans said they would be pleased if the health care law were deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Twenty-eight percent said they would be pleased if the Affordable Care Act were ruled constitutional, the NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey showed, compared with 35% who said they would be disappointed if the court came back with that outcome. But nearly four in 10 Americans surveyed said they would have "mixed feelings" if the justices struck down the whole law. The survey of 1,000 adults was conducted June 20-24. Previous surveys have indicated that some who oppose the law do so because they think it doesn't go far enough. The Supreme Court heard three days of politically charged hearings in March on the law formally known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. The landmark but controversial measure was passed by congressional Democrats despite pitched Republican opposition. The challenge focused primarily on the law's requirement that most Americans have health insurance or pay a fine. Supporters of the plan argued the "individual mandate" is necessary for the system to work, while critics argued it is an unconstitutional intrusion on individual freedom. Four federal appeals courts heard challenges to parts of the law before the Supreme Court ruling, and came up with three different results. Courts in Cincinnati and Washington voted to uphold the law, while the appeals court in Atlanta struck down the individual mandate. A fourth panel, in Richmond, Virginia, put its decision off until penalties for failing to have health insurance take effect in 2014. The act passed Congress along strictly partisan lines in March 2010, after a lengthy and heated debate marked by intense opposition from the health insurance industry and conservative groups. When Obama signed the legislation later that month, he called it historic and said it marked a "new season in America." While it was not the comprehensive national health care system liberals initially sought, supporters said the law would reduce health care costs, expand coverage and protect consumers. In place of creating a national health system, the law bans insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing medical conditions, bars insurers from setting a dollar limit on health coverage payouts, and requires them to cover preventative care at no additional cost to consumers. It also requires individuals to have health insurance, either through their employers or a state-sponsored exchange, or face a fine beginning in 2014. There are, however, a number of exemptions. For instance, the penalty will be waived for people with very low incomes who are members of certain religious groups, or who face insurance premiums that would exceed 8% of family income even after including employer contributions and federal subsidies. Supporters argued the individual mandate is critical to the success of the legislation, because it expands the pool of people paying for insurance and ensures that healthy people do not opt out of having insurance until they need it. Critics say the provision gives the government too much power over what they say should be a personal economic decision. Twenty-six states, led by Florida, went to court to say individuals cannot be forced to have insurance, a "product" they may neither want nor need. And they argued that if that provision is unconstitutional, the entire law must go. The Justice Department countered that since every American will need medical care at some point in their lives, individuals do not "choose" whether to participate in the health care market. The partisan debate around such a sweeping piece of legislation has encompassed almost every traditional hot-button topic: abortion and contraception funding, state and individual rights, federal deficits, end-of-life care, and the overall economy. During arguments on March 27, Justice Anthony Kennedy said the law appeared to "change the relationship between the government and the individual in a profound way." Roberts argued that "all bets are off" when it comes to federal government authority if Congress was found to have the authority to regulate health care in the name of commerce. Liberal justices, however, argued people who don't pay into the health system by purchasing insurance make care more expensive for everyone. "It is not your free choice" to stay out of the market for life, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said during arguments. "I think the justices probably came into the argument with their minds made up. They had hundreds of briefs and months to study them," said Thomas Goldstein, publisher of SCOTUSblog.com and a prominent Washington attorney, though he conceded that "the oral arguments (in March) might have changed their minds around the margin." The legislation signed by Obama stretched to 2,700 pages, nine major sections and some 450 provisions. The first lawsuits challenging the health care overhaul began just hours after the president signed the measure. |
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06-28-2012, 11:39am | #66 | ||||||
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Supreme Court upholds individual mandate, ObamaCare survives
Published June 28, 2012 FoxNews.com The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld nearly all of President Obama's health care overhaul, in a landmark ruling that will have sweeping consequences for the economy, the election and America's health care system. In a 5-4 decision, the court ruled as constitutional the so-called individual mandate requiring most Americans to obtain health insurance starting in 2014. The ruling is a victory for the president, ensuring for now that his signature domestic policy achievement remains mostly intact. It also ensures that the law will play a prominent role in the general election campaign, as Republican candidate Mitt Romney vows to repeal the law if elected. Obama is expected to speak publicly about the ruling later in the day. Chief Justice John Roberts, who was appointed during a Republican administration, joined the four left-leaning justices on the bench in crafting the majority decision. "The Affordable Health Care Act survives largely unscathed," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, one of those justices, declared at the end of the reading, claiming the "setbacks" going forward will be "temporary blips, not permanent obstructions." The ruling relied on a technical explanation of how the individual mandate could be categorized. Roberts, in the opinion, said the mandate could not be upheld under the Constitution's Commerce Clause. However, it could be upheld under the government's power to tax. "The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress's power under the Commerce Clause," Roberts wrote. "That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax." Roberts stressed that the decision does not speak to the merits of the law. "We do not consider whether the act embodies sound policies. That judgment is entrusted to the nation's elected leaders," he said. The ruling did rein in one element of the law -- the expansion of Medicaid across the country to take in millions of low-income Americans. The opinion allows Washington to offer more funding to states to expand the program, but says the federal government cannot penalize states for not participating in the new program by withholding existing Medicaid funds. Democrats, many of whom were bracing for the court striking down the mandate, celebrated the decision Thursday. Rep. Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., told Fox News that the ruling "gives us the opportunity to re-sell the the bill, which we did not do before." But Republicans vowed to re-double their campaign to repeal the still-controversial law. "Today's ruling underscores the urgency of repealing this harmful law in its entirety," House Speaker John Boehner said in a statement. "Republicans stand ready to work with a president who will listen to the people and will not repeat the mistakes that gave our country ObamaCare." Justice Anthony Kennedy, who was thought to be the swing vote on the decision, joined the minority in describing the whole law as invalid. "The act is invalid in its entirety," Kennedy said from the bench. He went on to say the administration went to "great lengths to structure the mandate as a penalty, not a tax" -- challenging the majority's rationale for upholding the mandate. Despite the persistent resistance to the law and the possibility that it could still be repealed, the historic decision Thursday will offer some measure of vindication for Obama, who devoted the first half of his term to pushing it through Congress. The overhaul was one of the central planks of Obama's 2008 run for president. The faltering economy only later took a leading role in the race as the financial markets spiraled around the time of the party conventions. Obama, after taking the oath of office, dispatched with his administration's recession response by swiftly passing through the roughly $800 billion stimulus package. The president immediately pivoted back to health care. He tasked allies in Congress with working out the specifics of a proposal, a process that would play out on the national stage over the course of a year. As the economy continued to struggle, the debate over the health care bill became increasingly contentious. The financial industry bailout helped spawn the Tea Party, but that movement also rallied around opposition to the health care bill -- it was assailed by critics as a "takeover" of American health care, even as Democrats backed off items on their original wish list such as a government-run insurance plan. The January 2010 election of Massachusetts Sen. Scott Brown, to fill the seat left by the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, threw a wrench into Democrats' plans as it gave Republicans enough seats to mount a filibuster. The Senate had already passed one version of the bill, but this put pressure on the House to effectively approve it or watch their goal of health care reform wither. Ultimately, Democrats worked out a series of deals and approved the bill, which Obama signed, delivering on a central campaign promise. But only after a protracted and politically damaging debate, which contributed heavily to Democratic losses in the 2010 midterm elections. The decision Thursday virtually guarantees the health care law will remain at the forefront of the 2012 campaign. Read more: Supreme Court upholds individual mandate, ObamaCare survives | Fox News |
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06-28-2012, 11:42am | #67 | ||||||
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So it was spun as not a tax. Now it is a tax. I see this a one big cluster that is so huge none of us, especially the uninformed, will be able to follow. I am lucky that I will have medical when I retire, but my kids....must pay for others. Of course, this just reduces my overall income to spend because I am sure the taxes associated with business's will just be filtered to me, the consumer..
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06-28-2012, 11:42am | #68 | ||||||
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06-28-2012, 11:47am | #69 | ||||||
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06-28-2012, 11:48am | #70 | ||||||||
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Quote:
https://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/o...ruck-down.html Quote:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...xZk_bT2-w-SqHA The second post I quoted, from the thread last week, is an almost direct copy and paste (with a very few words changed) from an opinion posted on Forbes.com: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...bFeqtlPbVY5gNA Maybe you should stick to plagiarizing the the thoughts of 1 libtard blog per subject. When you start mixing and matching, you sound like an ignorant fool. I would ask to actually try to come up with an original thought on a subject all on your own, but we all know that's simply not happening. Do you even read the stupid shit you post or do you just go to google and plagiarize the first search result that comes up on a subject? |
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06-28-2012, 11:51am | #71 | ||||||
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Just what countrys are you talking about Spain? , Greese?, Russia?, India?, China? Oh wait Maybe Canada? Tax to hell or products priced so high you can't afford them. Maybe you like to wait two month to have a cridical medical test taken.
Last edited by DaveK88; 06-28-2012 at 12:04pm. |
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06-28-2012, 11:51am | #72 | ||||||
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06-28-2012, 11:52am | #73 | |||||||
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Although, it's too bad Obamacare doesn't cover grammar, spelling and punctuation assistance. |
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06-28-2012, 12:00pm | #74 | ||||||
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Oh shit.
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06-28-2012, 12:04pm | #75 | ||||||
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06-28-2012, 12:05pm | #76 | ||||||
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The Supreme Court was aksed to see if Obama Care is legal or illegal; they found that some parts were legal, and others weren't (unless specific changes were made).
To the socialists: Obama Care is not now going to be placed in the constitution. Any newer President can make drastic changes... assuming the changes will pass through congress. November is just 5 months away |
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06-28-2012, 12:43pm | #77 | ||||||
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06-28-2012, 1:05pm | #78 | ||||||
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We are screwed.
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06-28-2012, 1:46pm | #79 | |||||||
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Some little gems coming out of this decision...
1.) odumbass vehemently denied that this was a tax while trying to sell it. Quote:
2.) Gives Romney a hell of a platform. Repeal Obamacare, plain and simple. Constitutional or not, polls show decisively that Americans are against it. 3.) Eliminates the future use of the commerce clause as a guise for social programs. Going forward, it now has to be presented as a tax or be deemed unconstitutional. Good luck getting support for that. 4.) Energizes those against this socialist bullshit about as much as any issue could. Should get interesting. The real question... did the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court make his decision in an attempt to give the Republicans their platform for 2012. If so... that would be a pretty damn brilliant move. Libs are too f**king stupid to see the 2nd and 3rd order consequences of something so as they sit thinking "their side" just won something, in reality it might just be a bomb waiting to blow up right in their faces. Last edited by RedLS1GTO; 06-28-2012 at 1:57pm. |
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06-28-2012, 1:55pm | #80 | ||||||
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