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Old 09-25-2012, 2:44pm   #61
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Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Because it is a stupid question.
Really? Then this is Bullshit?

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Originally Posted by Joecooool
Economic realities do not excuse us from our moral obligations.
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Old 09-25-2012, 3:04pm   #62
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Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO View Post
I'll post the exact same thing I posted the last time you made this stupid argument.



Your reply last time was claiming that you didn't believe the source and posting a google search result as a rebuttal.

Of course you failed (like you always do) to provide any numbers showing otherwise.

As I showed before, the numbers above are compiled from quite a few sources including multiple universities.

IU for example:

https://resources.oncourse.iu.edu/ac...e%20policy.pdf




Now, I challenge you to reply to the following 2 things rather than just leaving the thread like last time.


1. Please, post specific numbers instead of just a listing of libtard blogs who throw out the argument that "more white people are on welfare" without ever showing any sort of data to back it up. This is very simple. Post up actual data from some sort of reputable source that proves your point. A bunch of liberal websites making claims without numbers to back them up is not data. A "study" done by a blogger is not data.



Look at the charts and numbers. Every one of them not only shows that there are more blacks than whites on welfare, but that the gap is widening.



What is also shown is that white people living below the poverty line are also much less likely to be on welfare.





2. This is so simple that meven you might be able to understand it. It requires a 1 word answer. True or false, a black American is more likely to be on welfare than a white one?

I won't hold my breath waiting for you to actually show facts to back up your comments.
Your numbers are bullshit, racially biased and over ten years old.

I said "Your characterization of the typical welfare recipient is way off. The largest "ethnic" group is white, and most are only on it for a short period of time." This is a factually accurate statement.

You countered with some unrelated bullshit about a higher percentage of blacks are on welfare than whites.

That does not make my statement untrue. There are many more white people receiving welfare than blacks.

I might also add that you in particular seem to repeatedly bring up distorted numbers that cast black people in stereotypical fashion. This post is a good example of that. The sources you cite and the charts you used above are from the Council of Conservative Citizens web page. This is a recognized white supremacist group.

Council of Conservative Citizens -- Extremism in America

Council of Conservative Citizens | Southern Poverty Law Center

Be careful, your hood is showing...
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Old 09-25-2012, 3:30pm   #63
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Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Your numbers are bullshit, racially biased and over ten years old.

I said "Your characterization of the typical welfare recipient is way off. The largest "ethnic" group is white, and most are only on it for a short period of time." This is a factually accurate statement.

You countered with some unrelated bullshit about a higher percentage of blacks are on welfare than whites.
I know that things like numbers are way beyond your comprehension but try to keep up.

Quote:
  • Percent of recipients who are white 38.8 %
  • Percent of recipients who are black 39.8 %
39.8 is a larger number than 38.8

If my numbers are wrong, feel free to post something... anything that resembles a number instead of your usual unfounded bullshit that says otherwise.

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That does not make my statement untrue. There are many more white people receiving welfare than blacks.
Again, this is simple. Do you have ANYTHING resembling a legitimate source that backs this up? Anything at all?


Quote:
I might also add that you in particular seem to repeatedly bring up distorted numbers that cast black people in stereotypical fashion. This post is a good example of that. The sources you cite and the charts you used above are from the Council of Conservative Citizens web page. This is a recognized white supremacist group.

Council of Conservative Citizens -- Extremism in America

Council of Conservative Citizens | Southern Poverty Law Center
I suppose you are saying that Indiana University and the University of Michigan are racist groups as well? I already showed them as using the same data.

Again, feel free to show DATA showing that these numbers are wrong.

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Be careful, your hood is showing...
Really? You want to make that accusation? Go f*ck yourself. That is pathetic, even for you. You're a joke.
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Old 09-25-2012, 3:33pm   #64
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Well, you already said most of your employees in this pool of tax payers have a mortgage, so that means they pay property taxes. They probably have to drive to work so they pay tax on their registrations and then tax on the fuel they use.

I could go on and on.
In one of those cases the tax is state or local and in the other it is a consumption tax. Neither of those are based on income, therefore neither is an income tax, therefore this argument does nothing to support the contention in the OP that somehow Romney was wrong when he said that the 47% do not pay INCOME tax.
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FYI - Individual income tax only makes up slightly less than half of the money collected by the federal government.
Even if supported by some stats somewhere, it still doesn't mean that people who pay no income tax and/or depend on the .gov for money would ever consider voting for Romney on an economics basis, though they may do so for social reasons.
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Your characterization of the typical welfare recipient is way off. The largest "ethnic" group is white, and most are only on it for a short period of time.
I never said squat about race, you created that. Nonetheless, the above is true only on an absolute numbers basis. As a percentage of the population, fewer whites participate in the welfare system than multiple other ethnic groups, I.e. the percentage of whites out of the total population of whites that participate in the welfare system is lower than, say, blacks but higher than Asians.
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As I already pointed out, there is a 60 month lifetime cap on cash assistance.
Even assuming that that is true, and that no fraud exists in the system and that limit is actually enforced, Romney is still right when he says that the recipients will not vote for him. Do you have a source for your 60 month stat?
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The highest percentage of people on welfare are unwed mothers. Which when you combine this with the fact that your side still wants to abolish abortion blows my mind.
When I was on my OB-GYN rotation we had a family arrested out of the clinic because they brought an 11 year old girl in for a fertility work up. Two quotes from that day still stick in my head:

"We been tryin to get her pregnant for two years." and
"I don't know why you're getting upset, Doc, we're just trying to get her on the welfare."

Don't try to tell me that at least part of the 47% doesn't view welfare as a lifetime meal ticket and don't try to tell me that becoming an unwed mother didn't involve some poor choices along the way.

And as for the abortion thing, my true leanings are basically Libertarian (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) but I am a practical man so I align myself with the party that espouses the views that are fiscally conservative, since the social issues do not affect me much. Funny how in your view I am typecasting welfare recipients but you are not typecasting Republicans.

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So the guys in the military - who qualify to be in the 47% - have made poor decisions?
If they drop into the 47% and stay there then poor decisions were made. The honorable choice to serve in the military does not provide carte Blanche to do whatever you want for the rest of your life and does not insulate you from the consequences of your poor decisions not related to the service.
Quote:
People with disabilities have made poor decisions?
I am personally acquainted with an individual with cerebral palsy who is a manager at a big box store and a federal judge in a wheelchair. No one makes the choice to be disabled, but other choices about how you approach life can have a much greater effect on it than your abilities or disabilities.
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The elderly living in retirement have made poor decisions?
If they never made plans for retirement, then that would be a poor decision compared to the elderly that are still forced to pay INCOME tax on income other than Social Security.
Quote:
On top of that, there is only so much income to be made in this country.
You really need to take an economics course. When you become more productive, you are rewarded for it. When Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, he increased his income vastly and everyone who wanted to derive the benefits of having an iPhone was glad to help him do it. It's not a zero-sum game. When two people, say an employer and an employee, make a deal it is only because both sides feel they are better off making the deal than not.
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Not everyone can be a millionaire. If all the sudden everyone became an investment banker, that job would suddenly pay minimum wage.
Bullshit. Investment bankers depend on clients who will not invest with them unless they can demonstrate results. If everyone was an investment banker then the good ones would still be rich and the ones with no skill or drive would still be broke.

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The VAST majority of poor people are born poor and the VAST majority of wealthy people were born into wealthy families.
Only on a scale taken as a single snapshot in time. Overall everyone is better off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_States
Rich people become poor all of the time and poor people become rich (on a relative scale) all the time. Your decisions and effort are what change that, not the nanny state.
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Not everyone has parents that can afford law, business or medical school. To whom one is born is the overwhelming factor in whom and what you become.
Because of the values that your parents instill in you, not the financial circumstances of your upbringing. I was very fortunate that my father could and would pay for medical school, but as far as I know I was one of three or four in my med school class for whom that was true. His father was a first generation immigrant from Germany who arrived on these shores with $17 and no English skills, but he put my father through law school.

Even given the fortunate circumstances of my birth, if Mom and Dad hadn't instilled the value of hard work and an appreciation of consequences, I damn sure couldn't have gotten into med school or stayed in once I was there. Ask my sister.
Quote:
You - especially coming from your medical background - can not possibly be arguing that conservatives want to expand - or even keep MedicAID at its currently funded levels.

And they didn't have to consult me. Paul Ryan's budget cuts Medicaid by 800 million over the next ten years.
We are opposed to pouring money into a broken system choked by government bureaucracy, not blocking aid to those who need it. Betcha haven't taken a close look at specifically where those cuts would be made. And for the record, the biggest drop in membership (including me) in the AMA occurred right after they endorsed Obamacare.
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Since there is no data, neither of us can make a point.
I made an observation and you dismissed it. I then provided data that would support my contention, but since Huffpost hasn't done an exposé on the subject you decide neither of us could make a point?
Quote:
Let me clarify what I meant. Corporate "economic realities" do not excuse us from our social moral obligations. If a company goes bust our government has programs to help the unemployed.
So the plan is to drive companies out of business or out of the country with economically impossible regulations in the name of "morality" to create a pool of new voters dependent on government largesse? How is that moral?
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If you are not going to research it how can you debate it?
You made the initial 60 month assertion, back it up. I am not gonna debate rhetoric.
Quote:
Its absolutely true. When we ship more and more good paying jobs overseas, the dwindling pool of available jobs are the low paying jobs. People take those jobs because they have no other choice.
So the immigrants are fleeing all the good-paying jobs in Mexico to come here and do the crappy minimum wage jobs?

The law of supply and demand is irrefutable. If no one will do a job for $7.50 an hour then the salary has to rise, the job goes undone, or it is outsourced or automated. Period.
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And its your party that objects to punishing the companies that hire illegals by the way.
Nope. We object to the Draconian measures requested as punishment for employers who do not spend thousands of dollars looking for evidence that their employees who provided data that they were in the country legally did not forge it. These are the same people your party wants to keep in the country, but unemployed and therefore dependent on the .gov, aka "likely Obama voters".
Quote:
The Bush tax cuts INCLUDED lowering the capital gains tax.
So again, all was good until the Frank/Reid housing bubble collapsed. And incidentally, anyone who has sold a house at a gain since 2006 has benefitted from that capital gains cut as well.
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Looks like you guys had a good time.
Absentee DJ and incompetent wedding planner aside, it was a blast. Great gathering of old friends.

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Old 09-25-2012, 3:35pm   #65
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Originally Posted by Joecooool View Post
Your numbers are bullshit, racially biased and over ten years old.

I said "Your characterization of the typical welfare recipient is way off. The largest "ethnic" group is white, and most are only on it for a short period of time." This is a factually accurate statement.

You countered with some unrelated bullshit about a higher percentage of blacks are on welfare than whites.

That does not make my statement untrue. There are many more white people receiving welfare than blacks.
I might also add that you in particular seem to repeatedly bring up distorted numbers that cast black people in stereotypical fashion. This post is a good example of that. The sources you cite and the charts you used above are from the Council of Conservative Citizens web page. This is a recognized white supremacist group.

Council of Conservative Citizens -- Extremism in America

Council of Conservative Citizens | Southern Poverty Law Center

Be careful, your hood is showing...
Prove it.


All the evidence Shows that in 2010 or 2011 we reached a tipping point where more black Americans were on welfare than White.

Some Facts I found.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/...r_wake_up.html

We also learn that whites constitute 72.4 percent of America's population but constitute 35.6 percent of all recipients of Aid for Dependent Children (AFDC). Blacks constitute about 12.9 percent of America's population but constitute 37.2 percent of AFDC recipients. One argument loudly forwarded by black "leaders" is that whites make up the majority of welfare recipients. That fact is true from an absolute numbers perspective, but not from a percentage of the American population perspective.


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/...#ixzz27W6agqKc

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Old 09-25-2012, 3:47pm   #66
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Prove it.


All the evidence Shows that in 2010 or 2011 we reached a tipping point where more black Americans were on welfare than White.
Racist.
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Old 09-25-2012, 3:50pm   #67
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And by the way... you were 0 for 2.

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Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO View Post
1. Please, post specific numbers instead of just a listing of libtard blogs who throw out the argument that "more white people are on welfare" without ever showing any sort of data to back it up. This is very simple. Post up actual data from some sort of reputable source that proves your point. A bunch of liberal websites making claims without numbers to back them up is not data. A "study" done by a blogger is not data.

2. This is so simple that meven you might be able to understand it. It requires a 1 word answer. True or false, a black American is more likely to be on welfare than a white one?

Maybe if it was written in crayon it would be more to your level...
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Old 09-25-2012, 3:51pm   #68
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Racist.
Thats MR Racist to you Boy.
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Old 09-25-2012, 3:55pm   #69
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Thats MR Racist to you Boy.


I figured I would just summarize the response coool would inevitably give.
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Old 09-25-2012, 4:16pm   #70
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Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO
Source: US Department of Health and Human Services, U.S. Department of Commerce

Date of data: 5.18.2012

Total number of Americans on welfare ~15,000,000

Percent of recipients who are white 38.8 %

Percent of recipients who are black 39.8 %

Percent of recipients who are hispanic 15.7 %

Percent of recipients who are Asian 2.4 %

Percent of recipients who are Other 3.3 %

Of the total US population, whites make up 78.1% (~243,000,000) and blacks 13.1% (40,818,000). From: US census bureau

USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Do the math. Better yet, I'll do it for you since things like numbers and facts seem to be above your comprehension level. Based on these numbers from the Dept of Health and Human Services and the US Census bureau (not politically spun crap like you quote), a black American is over 6 times as likely to be on welfare (14.6% vs 2.3%).

Please, don't let things like facts stand in the way of the stupid shit you post.

By the way, just to prove that the numbers you got off the white supremacist site are bullshit too - here is proof that what you posted is a lie.

Scroll down to the November 6 1994 post in this thread. They use the same bogus numbers you used and credited to 5/18/12

Welfare and Race
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Old 09-25-2012, 4:18pm   #71
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Originally Posted by VITE1 View Post
Prove it.


All the evidence Shows that in 2010 or 2011 we reached a tipping point where more black Americans were on welfare than White.

Some Facts I found.
Articles: Will American Liberals Ever Wake Up?

We also learn that whites constitute 72.4 percent of America's population but constitute 35.6 percent of all recipients of Aid for Dependent Children (AFDC). Blacks constitute about 12.9 percent of America's population but constitute 37.2 percent of AFDC recipients. One argument loudly forwarded by black "leaders" is that whites make up the majority of welfare recipients. That fact is true from an absolute numbers perspective, but not from a percentage of the American population perspective.


Read more: Articles: Will American Liberals Ever Wake Up?
You just proved what I said.
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Old 09-25-2012, 5:34pm   #72
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You just proved what I said.
No. I showed one piece of data that shows the Majority of those on welfare are black.
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Old 09-25-2012, 6:15pm   #73
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On second thought... nevermind.

You are either ignorant beyond words or simply posting shit with the intent of pissing people off. I really don't care which. Either way, your continuous bullshit isn't worth the time.

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Old 09-26-2012, 10:10am   #74
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So it blows your mind that "our side" wants to stop killing unborn children?

Tell you what, f u ck you. I'm done with your fu cking bullshit if that's "your side". Bitch.
If you want to prevent abortions, you make sure everyone has health care, a high school education and birth control.

Not the exact opposite.
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Old 09-26-2012, 1:34pm   #75
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Opinion != fact.
It is a fact that the states with the lowest funding for Planned Parenthood, the worst sex-ed, etc. have the highest rates of teenage pregnancy.
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Old 09-26-2012, 2:48pm   #76
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1. Source of said facts?

2. Proof one is a direct cause of the other?
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_031.pdf
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