[update] Microsoft is struggling to explain why...

[Mike Mercury]

Windows 11 will leave millions of PCs behind

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/2...s-tpm-response

Microsoft has had six years to prepare for the launch of Windows 11, but the company is still struggling to explain its new hardware requirements. Windows 11 will officially support Intel 8th Gen Coffee Lake or Zen 2 CPUs and up, leaving behind millions of PCs that were sold during the launch of Windows 10.

It’s an unusual surprise if you purchased a new PC for Windows 10, or perhaps you have a perfectly capable machine that’s even older. Windows 11 will require Intel 8th Gen Coffee Lake or Zen 2 CPUs and up, TPM 2.0 (Trusted Platform Module) support, 4GB of RAM, and 64GB of storage.

Microsoft doesn’t typically enforce such specific processor requirements with Windows — with both Windows 8 and Windows 10 only requiring a 1GHz processor, 1GB of RAM (2GB for 64-bit), and 16GB of storage (20GB for 64-bit). Power users of Windows, and IT admins alike, have built up an expectation of being able to upgrade to the latest OS, regardless of what hardware they’re running. It looks like that’s about to end with Windows 11.

After much confusion last week, Microsoft attempted to explain its hardware requirements again yesterday, and it sounds like the main driver behind these changes is security. Coupled with Microsoft’s hardware requirements is a push to enable a more modern BIOS (UEFI) that supports features like Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 (Trusted Platform Module).

When you combine TPM with some of the virtualization technologies that Microsoft uses in Windows, there’s an understandable security benefit that we’ve discussed in detail previously. Microsoft claims that a combination of Windows Hello, Device Encryption, virtualization-based security, hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI), and Secure Boot “has been shown to reduce malware by 60 percent.”

You obviously need modern hardware to enable all these protections, and Microsoft has been building toward this moment for years. TPM support has been a requirement for OEMs to gain Windows certification since around the release of Windows 10, but Microsoft hasn’t forced businesses or consumers to enable it.

Microsoft’s decision to force Windows 11 users into TPM, Secure Boot, and more comes at a pivotal moment for Windows. It’s Microsoft’s operating system that’s always caught up in ransomware and malware attacks, and things are only going to get worse if the level of Windows hardware security doesn’t go up a notch.

Microsoft tried to offer some more clarity around this yesterday, but it wasn’t the level of detail we were hoping for. “As we release to Windows Insiders and partner with our OEMs, we will test to identify devices running on Intel 7th generation and AMD Zen 1 that may meet our principles,” says a blog post from the Windows team. That could be good news for the Surface Studio 2, a $3,499 device that Microsoft still sells with a 7th Gen chip that’s not on the Windows 11 list.

This same blog post also revealed that 7th Gen is probably as far back as Microsoft is willing to concede. “We also know that devices running on Intel 6th generation and AMD pre-Zen will not” meet Microsoft’s minimum system requirements, said the blog post before it was edited to remove this line. It’s not clear why Intel’s 6th Gen chips are definitely off the list, but part of this decision could be related to Spectre and Meltdown — two major computer processor security bugs that affected nearly every device made for 20 years.

“Microsoft’s CPU selections for Windows 11 don’t appear much at all to do with performance but look like security mitigations for side-channel attacks,” says Patrick Moorhead, principal analyst at Moor Insights and Strategy. “It also helps chipmakers focus driver work on the future, not the past.”

Side-channel attacks like Spectre and Meltdown were revealed just before Intel implemented hardware mitigations to protect against some speculative execution attacks in some 8th Gen chips in 2018. Not all of Intel’s 8th Gen chips include these hardware mitigations, though, but Microsoft has set a specific cutoff of 8th Gen and beyond. Microsoft hasn’t fully explained that decision, and the company is now telling people to wait and see if it’s able to include more older machines during its testing. Either way, there’s going to be a CPU cutoff that will affect millions of PCs.

Critics of Microsoft’s approach note that this move will generate unnecessary e-waste as consumers move to upgrade PCs that are more than capable of running Windows 11. The complexities of TPM and UEFI are also being debated by IT admins, particularly if devices aren’t set up to use these technologies yet.

Security expert Kevin Beaumont, who spent nearly a year working at Microsoft during the pandemic, has criticized the company over its Windows 11 hardware requirements. “In the middle of a pandemic when orgs are hurting, with a global chip shortage, Microsoft [is] trying to get people to replace things for security reasons that are questionable,” said Beaumont on Twitter. “Buy a Surface? No. Make a better OS.”


Microsoft’s changes mean that some PCs that are only three years old will be excluded from the Windows 11 upgrade.

There will be some exceptions to Microsoft’s new rules, though. “Windows 11 does not apply the hardware-compliance check for virtualized instances either during setup or upgrade,” notes a Microsoft document (PDF) on minimum hardware requirements for Windows 11. That means if you run Windows 11 as a virtual machine, you can ignore the CPU and security requirements. That flies in the face of Microsoft’s big security push here, but the reality is that most consumers and commercial customers won’t be running Windows 11 in a VM.


Microsoft is allowing testers to access Windows 11 on a wide range of hardware during the preview, but it’s planning to apply these new restrictions at launch. I would be surprised if there is a major change to these hardware requirements later this year, other than Microsoft stepping down to some 7th Gen chips. So enjoy testing Windows 11 while you still can.

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[DJ_Critterus]

I predict MS will make this a cluster **** just like it did with Win8 and Win 8.1

[Steve_R]

Cliffs?

[Mike Mercury]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Cliffs?

https://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/...d.php?t=126162

[Thunder22]

you'll supposedly need a MS acct to log in as well.

This has dumpster fire written all over it.

I'm part of the windows corporate insider program because of what i do for a living, and I'm not upgrading to 11 if it's released like this. I usually take all of the upgrades, but I'm going to wait and see on this one.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Cliffs?

Microsoft is pushing for everyone to get a new computer that will a) make Gates richer and b) let the government know how many times you wipe your ass at each shit.

NOTHING is done for our benefit. There is ALWAYS an ulterior motive.

[Thunder22]

^^^ That's what they want you to think, you can happily continue running win10 and just not take the win11 upgrade. No need to buy anything new.

[Chemtrails99]

Screw MS. This doesn't mention the other issue that created on purpose : Rendering your current computer useless.

I have a Win10 laptop used for writing and music production. It's older, but is I7 with a SSD so it moves just fine. This week I found out an automatic update had been installed. This update changed my program to an "S Mode" copy of Win10. That means that you can't download ANY software you didn't buy from the MS Store! I tried downloading an new version of a program I already had and kept getting bunced to the MS site and being told I am in S Mode and it can be turned off.....but....

....my computer doesn't ever show the link to the link to turn off S Mode, because it says it isn't installed on my computer! The laptop is now a brick for all due purposes. Before I buy any other computer, I have been looking into anything that runs Linux or other platforms or maybe even going to Apple (which I have had a bad realtionship with on all but one of their products).

Microsoft doesn't need another penny of my money. Ever.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Cliffs?

Your old PC won't run Windows 11.

Install Linux on it.

[Chemtrails99]

Originally Posted by dvarapala

Your old PC won't run Windows 11.

Install Linux on it.

I'm trying to learn how to do that now......

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Thunder22

^^^ That's what they want you to think, you can happily continue running win10 and just not take the win11 upgrade. No need to buy anything new.

...for now.

Remember..."If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Chemtrails99

I'm trying to learn how to do that now......

Oh that's easy, especially with a mainstream distro like Fedora.

[Wathen1955]

I hope by then that Linux will have improved gaming. I already have Linux Mint 20 installed on a spare laptop. I actually started with Linux Mint version 18 a few years back to check it out. I'm now on version 20. I've kept notes on tweaks and other issues that you may run into in a word document.

[DJ_Critterus]

Originally Posted by Chemtrails99

Screw MS. This doesn't mention the other issue that created on purpose : Rendering your current computer useless.

I have a Win10 laptop used for writing and music production. It's older, but is I7 with a SSD so it moves just fine. This week I found out an automatic update had been installed. This update changed my program to an "S Mode" copy of Win10. That means that you can't download ANY software you didn't buy from the MS Store! I tried downloading an new version of a program I already had and kept getting bunced to the MS site and being told I am in S Mode and it can be turned off.....but....

....my computer doesn't ever show the link to the link to turn off S Mode, because it says it isn't installed on my computer! The laptop is now a brick for all due purposes. Before I buy any other computer, I have been looking into anything that runs Linux or other platforms or maybe even going to Apple (which I have had a bad realtionship with on all but one of their products).

Microsoft doesn't need another penny of my money. Ever.

Apple is great for music and video production. Logic Pro X is great for audio and meant to directly compete with protools. Buy it once and each upgrade, update, patch, etc... is free.

[Mike Mercury]

Originally Posted by aerovette

Remember..."If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".

remember the "National Do Not Call List" ?

[snide]

Originally Posted by Thunder22

^^^ That's what they want you to think, you can happily continue running win10 and just not take the win11 upgrade. No need to buy anything new.

That's why I still run Windows XP.

[snide]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Cliffs?

Microsoft is a ****.

[snide]

Originally Posted by Wathen1955

I hope by then that Linux will have improved gaming. I already have Linux Mint 20 installed on a spare laptop. I actually started with Linux Mint version 18 a few years back to check it out. I'm now on version 20. I've kept notes on tweaks and other issues that you may run into in a word document.

Does Word even run on Linux?

[MadInNc]

Originally Posted by DJ_Critterus

Apple is great for music and video production. Logic Pro X is great for audio and meant to directly compete with protools. Buy it once and each upgrade, update, patch, etc... is free.

I need a new desktop. This sold me on Apple.

F MS

[snide]

Originally Posted by MadInNc

I need a new desktop. This sold me on Apple.

F MS

I've been using Apple MacBookPros for years.