The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I bet that most lawncare company trucks drive at least 150 miles per day from customer to customer in the local area.

I'll take that bet. How much are you willing to lose? Lawn care/landscaping is big business here on the island. I'll guarantee you none of them drive anywhere close to 150 miles/day. None of them have large offices with lots of power to install charging stations either, they have very small offices, typically in a strip mall, for bookkeeping. The equipment is kept in trailers they pull behind pickups, which are parked in a lot overnight. If they need service on one of those trucks they get it done locally, which is impossible with a Tesla.

The idea that a lawncare business will buy $1 million worth of new Tesla "trucks" because it "saves money" is beyond absurd.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Many businesses work 7 days per week. I see the lawncare trucks in my neighborhood on weekends as well.. Businesses have commercial power service and that should easiliy handle 10 tesla wall connectors. No issues keeping them charged up. Lawncare businesses drive a lot around town and that's where EV's are most efficient unlike gas trucks which are more efficient on the highway and their efficiency sucks in town. I bet that most lawncare company trucks drive at least 150 miles per day from customer to customer in the local area. Again, local driving at lower city speeds is really ideal for truck efficiency.

Your argument is really that "most" companies drive every truck 150 miles a day, every day, 365 days a year? Holy shit.

Your words: "local driving at lower city speeds". City speeds are ~35-40mph average.

You bet "most lawncare company trucks drive at least 150 miles per day from customer to customer in the local area"? 150 miles per day, at city speeds. You are really saying that 4 hours, half of the time of every work day in the lawncare, or plumbing, or whatever industry is spent paying employees to drive to and from jobs and NOT bringing in revenue?

Ok then.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Teslas can last a very long time if properly taken care off. Especially at a business where they are charged daily, that should not be an issue. The new 4680 cells should last over 500k miles Also, your fleet of F150 will need oil chances all the time. No maintenance on Cybertrucks. BTW, construction often goes on 7 days per week as well. It's not like an office job where you work Monday to Friday.
Even companies like plumbers work on weekends (and they charge a lot extra for those).

Oil changes? The F150s will need oil changes? How many sets of $$$$$$ tires will your Teslas need? How much is insurance on a cyber"truck" vs a fleet F150? No maintenance? Stop lying. They have the build quality of a 1990s Geo Metro. Even if they did manage to get the batteries last longer (which is bullshit) are you really arguing that you can drive Teslas 500k miles with nothing else breaking? False. When it does break, it costs a hell of a lot more than an F150, and you sure as hell aren't going to fix it yourself which is even more down time.

You are absolutely full of shit.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I'll take that bet. How much are you willing to lose? Lawn care/landscaping is big business here on the island. I'll guarantee you none of them drive anywhere close to 150 miles/day. None of them have large offices with lots of power to install charging stations either, they have very small offices, typically in a strip mall, for bookkeeping. The equipment is kept in trailers they pull behind pickups, which are parked in a lot overnight. If they need service on one of those trucks they get it done locally, which is impossible with a Tesla.

The idea that a lawncare business will buy $1 million worth of new Tesla "trucks" because it "saves money" is beyond absurd.

His knowledge of the lawncare industry and fleet maintenance is right on par with road racing and truck suspensions.

Although I don't know what your problem is. Lawncare companies and plumbers in your area aren't run out of massive industrial complexes with facilities to house and maintain a fleet of trucks?

The argument is absolutely absurd. He's made some absolutely stupid arguments but this one is next level.

I'd love to see the google street views of plumbers and lawncare companies that have the facilities that he claims are apparently common for "businesses".

[LATB]

No freaking way a landscape company would buy 10 cyber truck. Not happening in our lifetime.

And most of these landscape companies don’t have a commercial facility to have 10 cyber trucks charged daily.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Many businesses work 7 days per week. I see the lawncare trucks in my neighborhood on weekends as well.. Businesses have commercial power service and that should easiliy handle 10 tesla wall connectors. No issues keeping them charged up. Lawncare businesses drive a lot around town and that's where EV's are most efficient unlike gas trucks which are more efficient on the highway and their efficiency sucks in town. I bet that most lawncare company trucks drive at least 150 miles per day from customer to customer in the local area. Again, local driving at lower city speeds is really ideal for truck efficiency. Teslas can last a very long time if properly taken care off. Especially at a business where they are charged daily, that should not be an issue. The new 4680 cells should last over 500k miles Also, your fleet of F150 will need oil chances all the time. No maintenance on Cybertrucks. BTW, construction often goes on 7 days per week as well. It's not like an office job where you work Monday to Friday.
Even companies like plumbers work on weekends (and they charge a lot extra for those).

You really are reaching for justification.
And it’s obvious that you don’t fully understand the construction industry and how the trades operate.
Stay in your lane man. This ain’t it.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I'll take that bet. How much are you willing to lose? Lawn care/landscaping is big business here on the island. I'll guarantee you none of them drive anywhere close to 150 miles/day. None of them have large offices with lots of power to install charging stations either, they have very small offices, typically in a strip mall, for bookkeeping. The equipment is kept in trailers they pull behind pickups, which are parked in a lot overnight. If they need service on one of those trucks they get it done locally, which is impossible with a Tesla.

The idea that a lawncare business will buy $1 million worth of new Tesla "trucks" because it "saves money" is beyond absurd.

Depends on the size of the business. One of the bigger lawncare businesses here is LMP (Landscape Maintenance Professionals). Their trucks are everywhere in that area. They seem to specialize in commercial properties. I don't know how many miles they are driving in a day. 55k miles per year is a guess. Most pickup trucks for sale by companies usually have high miles, so I assume that they are driven a lot. I don't really think that there are official statistics of how many miles they drive as it depends on the area. A small lawncare company won't have a large office. However, a small lawncare company also won't need 10 trucks.. My example is of course for a larger company like LMP.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Depends on the size of the business. One of the bigger lawncare businesses here is LMP (Landscape Maintenance Professionals). Their trucks are everywhere in that area. They seem to specialize in commercial properties. I don't know how many miles they are driving in a day. 55k miles per year is a guess. Most pickup trucks for sale by companies usually have high miles, so I assume that they are driven a lot. I don't really think that there are official statistics of how many miles they drive as it depends on the area. A small lawncare company won't have a large office. However, a small lawncare company also won't need 10 trucks.. My example is of course for a larger company like LMP.

You should contact LMP and ask them if a fleet of 100 thousand dollar cyber trucks would be something they would be interested in.
My guess is that they would laugh at you directly.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Your argument is really that "most" companies drive every truck 150 miles a day, every day, 365 days a year? Holy shit.

Your words: "local driving at lower city speeds". City speeds are ~35-40mph average.

You bet "most lawncare company trucks drive at least 150 miles per day from customer to customer in the local area"? 150 miles per day, at city speeds. You are really saying that 4 hours, half of the time of every work day in the lawncare, or plumbing, or whatever industry is spent paying employees to drive to and from jobs and NOT bringing in revenue?

Ok then.



Oil changes? The F150s will need oil changes? How many sets of $$$$$$ tires will your Teslas need? How much is insurance on a cyber"truck" vs a fleet F150? No maintenance? Stop lying. They have the build quality of a 1990s Geo Metro. Even if they did manage to get the batteries last longer (which is bullshit) are you really arguing that you can drive Teslas 500k miles with nothing else breaking? False. When it does break, it costs a hell of a lot more than an F150, and you sure as hell aren't going to fix it yourself which is even more down time.

You are absolutely full of shit.

The claim about EV tires wearing down much faster is total BS. This only applies to some PERFORMANCE EV's that have very soft (low treadwear) tires. Most EV's get almost as much life out of their tires than gas cars. When I traded in my Model Y with 19" wheels at 26500 miles, I had about 40% tread remaining. The reason why many people wear down the tires on EV's is because they don't stay off the accelerator. It is tempting when you have a lot of torque to step on it BUT if you drive normally, you will get close to the life of a gas car tire. Most of Tesla issues are NOT related to things that will cause you loss of use. Most things are little things here and there. I'm on my 2nd Tesla and drove a total of 60k miles with both combined and I didn't have a single issue that made it impossible for me to use the car. All issues were minor things with weatherstripping, steering yoke wear, weatherstipping, center console issues etc. NONE of those issues cost me loss of use. It's all fake anti Telsa propaganda. There are millions of Teslas on the road and the vast majority have no major issues. It's just that the ones that do have issues take it to social media. Considering how many Teslas are out there, there are not many of them that have major issues.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Depends on the size of the business. One of the bigger lawncare businesses here is LMP (Landscape Maintenance Professionals). Their trucks are everywhere in that area. They seem to specialize in commercial properties. I don't know how many miles they are driving in a day. 55k miles per year is a guess. Most pickup trucks for sale by companies usually have high miles, so I assume that they are driven a lot. I don't really think that there are official statistics of how many miles they drive as it depends on the area. A small lawncare company won't have a large office. However, a small lawncare company also won't need 10 trucks.. My example is of course for a larger company like LMP.

Your "guess"... is wrong. Way wrong.

You cannot possibly actually believe that every truck spends 4+ hours per day on the road, every day, 365 days a year.

This may come as a shock, but to actually make money, lawncare companies actually try to spend their time doing lawncare. They don't spend half of their day driving around.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

You should contact LMP and ask them if a fleet of 100 thousand dollar cyber trucks would be something they would be interested in.
My guess is that they would laugh at you directly.

The price is $79990. It's just the initial "FOUNDERS EDITION" that is $99990.
There will also be a cheaper one motor version in 2025.
$79990 isn't really expensive for a Crew Cab Pickup. You won't find many new Crew Cab 1/2 ton trucks for under $45k and MOST of them are well over $70k.
Just go to autotrader and browse locally available 1/2 ton pickup trucks and most of them will be $65k+++++

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The claim about EV tires wearing down much faster is total BS.

Like your claim that ICE vehicles require constant maintenance while EVs require no maintenance is BS?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Your "guess"... is wrong. Way wrong.

You cannot possibly actually believe that every truck spends 4+ hours per day on the road, every day, 365 days a year.

This may come as a shock, but to actually make money, lawncare companies actually try to spend their time doing lawncare. They don't spend half of their day driving around.

All I know for a fact is that most commercially used trucks accumulate a lot of miles. Also, a business day for a lawncare company (except for OFFICE hours) is not just 8 hours. They are out and working from sunrise to sunset.
Just like Plumbers or electricians, most companies work 7 days per week, not 5. This isn't an office job. Most larger companies to work weekends and nights as well. They actually love those after normal hours service calls as they charge twice as much.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The price is $79990. It's just the initial "FOUNDERS EDITION" that is $99990.
There will also be a cheaper one motor version in 2025.
$79990 isn't really expensive for a Crew Cab Pickup. You won't find many new Crew Cab 1/2 ton trucks for under $45k and MOST of them are well over $70k.
Just go to autotrader and browse locally available 1/2 ton pickup trucks and most of them will be $65k+++++

Landscape contractors and trades contractors don’t buy 60-70K trucks. Especially for the fleet if they have multiple crews.

As I posted earlier a new 1/2 ton can be bought for 40K and that’s half of the cost of the 80K cyber truck.
Again as I posted, the 40K difference will buy a lifetime of fuel.

Btw
Can the 80K cyber truck be bought today?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Like your claim that ICE vehicles require constant maintenance while EVs require no maintenance is BS?

Me and my wife combined have driven over 160k EV miles since 2019 and the ONLY routine maintenance we ever did was changing the cabin air filter on my 2019 Kona Electric twice.
Wife has over 70k miles on her BMW i3 now (23k miles when she got it). I had my Kona Electric until 58k miles. I had my Model Y to 26500 miles when I traded it in and I have almost 36k miles on my Plaid X now.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

All I know for a fact is that most commercially used trucks accumulate a lot of miles. Also, a business day for a lawncare company (except for OFFICE hours) is not just 8 hours. They are out and working from sunrise to sunset.
Just like Plumbers or electricians, most companies work 7 days per week, not 5. This isn't an office job. Most larger companies to work weekends and nights as well. They actually love those after normal hours service calls as they charge twice as much.

Blatantly false. Yes there are some 24/7 MEP service companies but as a general rule the trades do not work weekends.
Stay in your lane man.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

Landscape contractors and trades contractors don’t buy 60-70K trucks. Especially for the fleet if they have multiple crews.

As I posted earlier a new 1/2 ton can be bought for 40K and that’s half of the cost of the 80K cyber truck.
Again as I posted, the 40K difference will buy a lifetime of fuel.

Btw
Can the 80K cyber truck be bought today?

40K Crew Cab Truck?? Really?
Even at 40k price, your fuel savings will still exceed the difference between the payment on the $40k truck and the $80k truck.
When I look at the LMP trucks, those are all nice, newer Crew Cab trucks. Those don't look like bare bones base trucks.. They have all Crew Cab trucks as it's not just one guy in them. They have one who mows, and the other 2 or 3 use the edgers and trimmers.. I see them mowing arount the property at my employer frequently.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Me and my wife combined have driven over 160k EV miles since 2019 and the ONLY routine maintenance we ever did was changing the cabin air filter on my 2019 Kona Electric twice.
Wife has over 70k miles on her BMW i3 now (23k miles when she got it). I had my Kona Electric until 58k miles. I had my Model Y to 26500 miles when I traded it in and I have almost 36k miles on my Plaid X now.

No wiper replacement? No washer fluid refill? Never need new tires? Huh, I didn't know that about EVs.

I really don't understand your point on this one. Routine maintenance on a new ICE vehicle is very little. One, maybe two oil changes/year, otherwise it's occasional wiper blades, washer fluid refill, tire pressure checks, and other stuff that should be done on an EV as well. The small amount of time and dollars for oil changes is insignificant.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

Blatantly false. Yes there are some 24/7 MEP service companies but as a general rule the trades do not work weekends.
Stay in your lane man.

Again, I'm not talking about the mom and pop small business. Franchises like Roto Rooter, LMP and Mister Sparky Franchises. Those are all large businesses which operate 7 days per week, 24 hours (except for lawncare) per day.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

No wiper replacement? No washer fluid refill? Never need new tires? Huh, I didn't know that about EVs.

I really don't understand your point on this one. Routine maintenance on a new ICE vehicle is very little. One, maybe two oil changes/year, otherwise it's occasional wiper blades, washer fluid refill, tire pressure checks, and other stuff that should be done on an EV as well. The small amount of time and dollars for oil changes is insignificant.

never changed wiper blades on any of our cars. Sure, washer fluid we have changed but it takes a minute to do and costs virtually nothing. Tire pressure are minor things that can be done when the car is connected at the charger.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The claim about EV tires wearing down much faster is total BS. This only applies to some PERFORMANCE EV's that have very soft (low treadwear) tires. Most EV's get almost as much life out of their tires than gas cars. When I traded in my Model Y with 19" wheels at 26500 miles, I had about 40% tread remaining.

How much does a set of tires cost for a fleet level F150?

How much does a set of tires cost for a Cyber"truck"? How long will those tires last towing trailers around 150 miles per day as you claim?

How much does insurance cost on a Cyber"truck" vs a fleet level F150?

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The reason why many people wear down the tires on EV's is because they don't stay off the accelerator. It is tempting when you have a lot of torque to step on it BUT if you drive normally, you will get close to the life of a gas car tire.

Hmmm. How about constantly starting and stopping with a trailer around town? You know, exactly the thing that you are claiming that they will be doing.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Most of Tesla issues are NOT related to things that will cause you loss of use. Most things are little things here and there. I'm on my 2nd Tesla and drove a total of 60k miles with both combined and I didn't have a single issue that made it impossible for me to use the car. All issues were minor things with weatherstripping, steering yoke wear, weatherstipping, center console issues etc. NONE of those issues cost me loss of use.

Such high standards you have. As long as it keeps going... who cares if shit falls off.

More shit has gone wrong in your 60k miles than the combined 265k on the cars sitting in my driveway. You really think that a fleet of 10 "trucks" is going to last 200-300k miles without a MAJOR component breaking? Even you can't actually believe that.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

It's all fake anti Telsa propaganda. There are millions of Teslas on the road and the vast majority have no major issues. It's just that the ones that do have issues take it to social media. Considering how many Teslas are out there, there are not many of them that have major issues.

YOU calling something else propaganda? Holy shit.