Have you found Union workers save you big $$$

[Z06PDQ]

the UAW didn't "kill" GM & Chrysler. a combination of factors contributed to their fall. lopsided tariff/trade laws, government sponsored health insurance reflected in the cost of a vehicle & bad management/negotiations by execs did. are there lazy ass union workers? yep. there are also lazy ass corporate types that spend their day on the internet on the company computer & the company dime. they have the gall to look down their hypocritical noses from their ivory towers & scream cry for an end to all unions. some of them post right here.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by Peter Pan

To think if there were no unions the profits would have been much better and they could even employ more people

"more people" like illegals? that fits right in with your exclusive "bottom line" mentality. some companies realize that the union can actually help them in things like safety, production,quality etc if they are approached in a constructive manner.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

"more people" like illegals? that fits right in with your exclusive "bottom line" mentality. some companies realize that the union can actually help them in things like safety, production,quality etc if they are approached in a constructive manner.

Enlisting the employees in a cooperative effort to make things safer and more productive is a laudable goal. People on the front lines actually doing the work often have a much better perspective than bean counters in an office somewhere.

What exactly is the union function in all of this?

It seems a little like being Catholic, to me. Why do I need a priest as an intercessor to God? Why can't I just pray directly to God?

Why do I need a union as an intercessor to the boss?

If you have a good idea that is going to make things safer or make the company more money, why can't you the employee go directly to the management with that idea?

Example: "Hey, boss, here's an idea that will make things safer and/or make us more money".

In the old days, they used to have suggestion boxes at work.

Would you be unable to pass that idea on to management if you were not represented by a union?


One other general thought to bring up:

You are in one of the few industries that cannot be outsourced. Most manufacturing in America has gone offshore, because it could. Your industry can't really go anywhere. You should feel lucky to work in such an industry.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Z06PDQ

the UAW didn't "kill" GM & Chrysler. a combination of factors contributed to their fall. lopsided tariff/trade laws, government sponsored health insurance reflected in the cost of a vehicle & bad management/negotiations by execs did. are there lazy ass union workers? yep. there are also lazy ass corporate types that spend their day on the internet on the company computer & the company dime. they have the gall to look down their hypocritical noses from their ivory towers & scream cry for an end to all unions. some of them post right here.

I agree with most of this. Putting the blame entirely on unions isn't exactly seeking the whole truth.

[Z06PDQ]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Enlisting the employees in a cooperative effort to make things safer and more productive is a laudable goal. People on the front lines actually doing the work often have a much better perspective than bean counters in an office somewhere.

What exactly is the union function in all of this?

It seems a little like being Catholic, to me. Why do I need a priest as an intercessor to God? Why can't I just pray directly to God?

Why do I need a union as an intercessor to the boss?

If you have a good idea that is going to make things safer or make the company more money, why can't you the employee go directly to the management with that idea?

Example: "Hey, boss, here's an idea that will make things safer and/or make us more money".

In the old days, they used to have suggestion boxes at work.

Would you be unable to pass that idea on to management if you were not represented by a union?

the "union function" is to go to the members & say "look guys, this is what they want & we think it's a good or [bad] idea." it takes the suggestion box approach to another level. I like your "front line/bean counter" analogy. we've all seen some of the outrageous things that some efficiency expert somewhere came up with that sucks in the real world.[the movie Office Space comes to mind] in large companies like mine it may be hard to go to a local manager with a problem that will be ultimately decided by the corporate office a thousand miles away & realistically expect a solution. all I'm saying is that we are really "all in this together" & as long as everyone including management & workers realizes that fact we can & will prosper. my industry proves that by the recent numbers being posted. this is the same industry where phrases like "a Chinaman's chance" "I've been railroaded" etc, originated & we have come a long way since those days. you are right about not being vulnerable to outsourcing, but as you know technology has taken us from a 6 man crew to 2. one of these days a computer will do it all.

[6spdC6]

Originally Posted by mrvette

You been there, done that, and I have visiteded various power plants, talked to power plant engineers, had friend in that field, worked for Foster Wheeler.....

and so it seems when standing on the generating deck of a 1300 MEGAWATT power plant under full tilt operation we had to shout to each other from 1' away.....I asked the plant super what that size of that containment vessel was, he said about the size of a station wagon......

so that ****ing station wagon was shaking the building/gear larger than a football stadium, all those crazy pipes running water back and forth, all that shaking and rock/rolling from one little station wagon sized vessel.....

mother DUCK we gotta be damn SURE every piece of pipe passes XYZ/whatever ray test.....

my friend showed me pictures of a COAL plant that blew up in W. Va. some years ago......

that shit's the powers of at least minor Gods'......

I have worked in a couple nuke plants, they can be very interesting to say the least. Even though I'm a long time welder I went to the plants as a cutter or fitter. The welding test is extreme to say the least, you flunk and your sent home most times. That’s the reason I went as cutter/fitter to nuke plants, no test for fitter and just a basic how you handle a plasma cutter or oxy acl torch for a cutter job.

A lot of my jobs were at chemical plants and production facilities. The money was real good and with a ton of OT I was able to take early retirement at 55. I was glad to do that as it took a lot out of me and was happy to leave it to the younger guys (as I was once)

Getting half killed in a serious 20' fall made my last 15 years at work very difficult to say the least. The union got me a job at a large welding fab shop my last few years and being indoors rather than outside at -20 or rain or snow made the work tolerable till I could take early retirement.

[mrvette]

Originally Posted by 6spdC6

I have worked in a couple nuke plants, they can be very interesting to say the least. Even though I'm a long time welder I went to the plants as a cutter or fitter. The welding test is extreme to say the least, you flunk and your sent home most times. That’s the reason I went as cutter/fitter to nuke plants, no test for fitter and just a basic how you handle a plasma cutter or oxy acl torch for a cutter job.

A lot of my jobs were at chemical plants and production facilities. The money was real good and with a ton of OT I was able to take early retirement at 55. I was glad to do that as it took a lot out of me and was happy to leave it to the younger guys (as I was once)

Getting half killed in a serious 20' fall made my last 15 years at work very difficult to say the least. The union got me a job at a large welding fab shop my last few years and being indoors rather than outside at -20 or rain or snow made the work tolerable till I could take early retirement.

Yeh, that's what Johnny is facing now....I dunno how in hell he manages to stay on the job.....about 12 years ago...age 55, I tried doing electrical at the same shipyard he at now....lasted maybe 2 months.....the electric shop foreman was amazed I knew everything about it, except the marine color code for 3 phases....he did every damn inside out theory trick he could on the exam, and interview....but no way he tossed my ass....