I hate Illinois Nazis

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Truck Guy

Think it, the liberals KNOW it. They just won't admit it or discuss it...

The liberals assault on weapons has nothing to do with reducing criminal activities. It's all about weakening the private citizen so they must rely on the government to live.

[DJ_Critterus]

Originally Posted by jaxgator

Rational gun laws? There are already too damn many laws on the books now. And guess what? Those laws only apply to law abiding citizens. Do you think that the criminal element is going to abide by any new gun legislation? You'd be a damn fool to think that.

There's no sense trying to argue this topic again...and again...and again. You're wasting your time there.

[bill_daniels]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Show me one post where I ever said guns should be confiscated.

See this is your problem. I call for rational gun laws and your side is so extreme that you label me like this.

It will be your side's undoing.

The way to have a set of rational gun laws on the books would be to eliminate all the irrational and (IMHO) unconstitutional gun laws currently on the books. That would leave the rational laws, like, "don't rob or kill someone with a gun (except in self defense)" on the books.


This whole debate reminds me of Prohibition. Rational alcohol policy would be to prohibit minors from using or posessing alcohol, and prohibiting drunk driving and drunk flying.....that's it. Of course, that wasn't good enough for our Carrie Nation conservatives, so we banned it for everyone, which just minted a whole bunch of new criminals. Nowdays, we have open container laws, we arrest thin people who drive after 2 or three drinks, we ticket sober drivers who are driving around sober passengers who are drinking in the car.

We make irrational laws just because we feel we must "do something" about a perceived problem.

Want to prevent another Sandy Hook? Make all the laws you want, crazy people will still go crazy and Sandy Hooks will still happen. All that will change is that the crazy person will have broken more laws doing the same action.....oh, and currently law abiding folks will be going to jail for violating laws that have no effect on crazies and criminals who could not care less about breaking the law in the first place.

[bill_daniels]

Originally Posted by jaxgator

Rational gun laws? There are already too damn many laws on the books now. And guess what? Those laws only apply to law abiding citizens. Do you think that the criminal element is going to abide by any new gun legislation? You'd be a damn fool to think that.

Had I bothered to keep reading, I could have saved a post saying exactly what you are saying.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

See this is your problem. I call for rational gun laws and your side is so extreme that you label me like this.

What's really sad is that you and the rest of your liberal buddies have your heads so far up a unicorn's ass and are so detached from reality and simple minded that you somehow think the stupid shit you suggest is "reasonable" and will stop violence.

Here's a simple plan. Enforce the laws we already have.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

That didn't take long.

And just my two cents...there will be a civil war before they take legal law abiding citizens private property (guns)

I didn't say they should be, I'm showing how they will be taken away.

I've never said all guns should be confiscated.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

What's really sad is that you and the rest of your liberal buddies have your heads so far up a unicorn's ass and are so detached from reality and simple minded that you somehow think the stupid shit you suggest is "reasonable" and will stop violence.

Here's a simple plan. Enforce the laws we already have.

How would that have prevented any of the recent shootings?

[bill_daniels]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

How would that have prevented any of the recent shootings?

The desire to "do something" to absolutely, positively, prevent more shootings is a desire to win an unwinable fight. Whatever you do, you can't prevent violent crazies from being violent.

What do the AA folks say? Accept the things you cannot change?

Good advice.

Not all accidents are preventable, and not all evil is preventable, either. Do or spend whatever you want. Those two things are immutable truth.

Thankfully, your chances of being a victim of a violent crazy person is pretty small. That's small comfort for those that are, and my heart goes out to those effected, but **** happens.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

How would that have prevented any of the recent shootings?

And how would your suggestions have prevented them?

[Truck Guy]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

The desire to "do something" to absolutely, positively, prevent more shootings is a desire to win an unwinable fight. Whatever you do, you can't prevent violent crazies from being violent.

What do the AA folks say? Accept the things you cannot change?

Good advice.

Not all accidents are preventable, and not all evil is preventable, either. Do or spend whatever you want. Those two things are immutable truth.

Thankfully, your chances of being a victim of a violent crazy person is pretty small. That's small comfort for those that are, and my heart goes out to those effected, but **** happens.

Well said.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

How would that have prevented any of the recent shootings?

Last I checked, it was already illegal to kill people which pretty clearly indicates that the existing laws were not enforced.

What you fail to realize is that the person who is insane enough to want to kill a bunch of kids or a people at a theater is going to do it, gun or not. Hypothetically, let's take the guns away. You could easily make a couple of pipe bombs out of household goods that would wipe out a hell of a lot more people. It wouldn't be hard at all to take out just as many defenseless kids or unsuspecting movie goers with a knife. You could drive a car through the playground, bar the doors and light it on fire, hell, there are infinite ways to kill people. We realize that the whole "personal responsibility" concept seems to elude you, but it is the person... NOT THE GUN.

Now, how would any of your crap prevented them? (Hint: it wouldn't have)

Why were there 500 homicides in Chicago this year despite guns being illegal there?

In case you missed it since it was given almost no media attention (because it didn't promote your sides agenda) a nutjob in China just proved that killing 22 kids with a knife. Should all knife owners be required to have psych evals?

How is it possible for someone with even the slighest amount of intelligence to look at past events like prohibition and the current "war on drugs" and still somehow think that simply making something illegal will prevent bad things from happening? Are you really that simple minded and ignorant of reality?

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Why were there 500 homicides in Chicago this year despite guns being illegal there?

Because we do not have uniform gun laws.

Virginia got tired of all the murders in Washington coming from guns purchased there. So what did they do? They passed a law saying you can only buy one gun a month.

Now most of the guns used to kill people in DC are purchased from states farther south.

We need federal laws.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

In case you missed it since it was given almost no media attention (because it didn't promote your sides agenda) a nutjob in China just proved that killing 22 kids with a knife. Should all knife owners be required to have psych evals?

In case YOU missed, it, none of the 22 kids he stabbed died.

None.

Wonder what the body count would have been had he had a gun.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Because we do not have uniform gun laws.


We need federal laws.

Ever heard of the NFA? Do you have ANY clue how long of a fuct up process it already is to get a silencer or an SBR? Those are federal laws not state. And before you say nobody needs a silencer, it's now legal to hunt pests (hogs, coyote, ect) in Texas with a silencer, which makes an awful lot of sense to protect the hearing of the hunter.

There's plenty of federal gun laws, making them harder to get one place doesn't mean people will stop getting them, they'll only source them somewhere else.

[bill_daniels]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Because we do not have uniform gun laws.

Virginia got tired of all the murders in Washington coming from guns purchased there. So what did they do? They passed a law saying you can only buy one gun a month.

Now most of the guns used to kill people in DC are purchased from states farther south.

We need federal laws.

Do you support "citizens can only buy one gun per month" laws? OK, I want to buy 12 guns. So, instead of one trip to the gun store, I have to make 12 this year. I pay more for each gun, too, because I can't negotiate a volume discount on my purchase. So I burn more gas (contributing to more air pollution, BTW), spend more on each gun and get a background check done 12 times rather than just one time.....the only folks that law helps are oil companies who sell more gas, government employees who get more overtime checking the same guy out 12 times rather than 1, and maybe the gun dealer who makes more selling 12 guns individually instead of as a package deal for a discount.

This is no different than Pubs passing laws harassing women seeking abortions. We did that here in TX, forcing doctors to do a sonogram (sp?) and to make the doctors play the sound of the baby's heartbeat to those abortion seeking women. Will this stop the woman from getting her abortion? No. Will it harass that woman? Absolutely.

Limiting gun buyers to one gun a month is exactly the same kind of deal.....harassment that achieves nothing except more government jobs enforcing a law just for the sake of having a law.

[jaxgator]

Originally Posted by bill_daniels

Do you support "citizens can only buy one gun per month" laws? OK, I want to buy 12 guns. So, instead of one trip to the gun store, I have to make 12 this year. I pay more for each gun, too, because I can't negotiate a volume discount on my purchase. So I burn more gas (contributing to more air pollution, BTW), spend more on each gun and get a background check done 12 times rather than just one time.....the only folks that law helps are oil companies who sell more gas, government employees who get more overtime checking the same guy out 12 times rather than 1, and maybe the gun dealer who makes more selling 12 guns individually instead of as a package deal for a discount.

This is no different than Pubs passing laws harassing women seeking abortions. We did that here in TX, forcing doctors to do a sonogram (sp?) and to make the doctors play the sound of the baby's heartbeat to those abortion seeking women. Will this stop the woman from getting her abortion? No. Will it harass that woman? Absolutely.

Limiting gun buyers to one gun a month is exactly the same kind of deal.....harassment that achieves nothing except more government jobs enforcing a law just for the sake of having a law.

And only harassing law abiding citizens BTW. Criminals will still be able to get as many guns as they want per month without having to deal with the bullshit put in place by new legislation.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by jaxgator

And only harassing law abiding citizens BTW. Criminals will still be able to get as many guns as they want per month without having to deal with the bullshit put in place by new legislation.

As long as the bunch of self righteous, ignorant, enlightened assholes feel like they "won" reality is completely irrelevant.

[lander]

The resident lft had never proposed any law that would have prevented any of the recent killings. Don't answer the questions he refused to. Fuk him.

[Yerf Dog]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

In case YOU missed, it, none of the 22 kids he stabbed died.

None.

Wonder what the body count would have been had he had a gun.

Knives can still be deadly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanping_school_massacre

[DJ_Critterus]

Originally Posted by VITE1

And how would your suggestions have prevented them?

They wouldn't have....jsut like confiscating all guns in England prevented murders, rape, crime, etc...