Shareholder versus Stakeholder Capitalism

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Never did I advocate shareholder profit should go towards flowers in another state or any other community project. Ever. Again, please make an attempt to understand my posts prior to banging out a response.

And that's the part YOU keep missing.

How do you figure that you didn't?

Unless the shareholders in a company are all local, that is EXACTLY what you said. Community projects cost money. They cost employee productivity if it is the employees themselves doing the work... which when it all boils down is also money. Money spent that doesn't result in a profit is a loss. Lost money = less profit. Less profit = less shareholder value.

Where in that am I wrong?

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Thomas

You don't have a dog in this fight since your ability to debate constructively is far beyond your capability. As I stated in an earlier thread, you're a one trick pony, and your trick is "Obama Sucks"

Try to contribute to this thread WITHOUT the rhetoric. Lets see if you have the chops.

1st...I am correct. YOU voting for Obama makes you either a liberal...a foolish conservative...or a post sitter (watch out for splinters)

now...
are you self employed?

do you run a small business?

do you or have you ever had a payroll?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Let me try again. A PUBLIC corporations FIRST responsibility is to the shareholders. Not to buy flowers, build parks, or donate to the United Way for instance.

However, in my opinion they also have a responsibility to the community they serve, but that comes AFTER the shareholders.

Let me say it a third time. In no WAY the government should mandate this.

Lost money = less profit. Less profit = less shareholder value

So you would be perfectly OK with BP (And I'm only using them for illustration purposes) not giving to

• American Red Cross
• Unicef

And ONLY concerning themselves with the bottom line?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by LarsAtTheBeach

1st...I am correct. YOU voting for Obama makes you either a liberal...a foolish conservative...or a post sitter (watch out for splinters)

now...
are you self employed? No I am not.

do you run a small business? No I do not

do you or have you ever had a payroll? No I have not

Ok, questions answered.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Let me try again. A PUBLIC corporations FIRST responsibility is to the shareholders. Not to buy flowers, build parks, or donate to the United Way for instance.

However, in my opinion they also have a responsibility to the community they serve, but that comes AFTER the shareholders.

Let me say it a third time. In no WAY the government should mandate this.


So you would be perfectly OK with BP (And I'm only using them for illustration purposes) not giving to

• American Red Cross
• Unicef

And ONLY concerning themselves with the bottom line?

How do you still not get this. These major companies donate for the purpose of increasing their bottom line. Do you really think they do it to be nice!?!?

If I was an investor in BP, I would be OK with that for 1 reason... it boosts their public image which in turn leads to more profits.

If I wanted MY MONEY invested in the Red Cross... I will do it myself.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Do you really think they do it to be nice!?!?

I know this may come as somewhat of a surprise to you and your cloistered little "Bottom Line or fuk it" world but there are some people who believe in helping others when they are in a position to do so. That could be a gigantic publicly held corporation or your next door neighbor.

Clearly it wouldn't be you, and that's too bad.

And again, I understand the concept of "Good PR is good for business" so lets attempt to keep moving forward with this discussion.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I know this may come as somewhat of a surprise to you and your cloistered little "Bottom Line or fuk it" world but there are some people who believe in helping others when they are in a position to do so. That could be a gigantic publicly held corporation or your next door neighbor.

Clearly it wouldn't be you, and that's too bad.

And again, I understand the concept of "Good PR is good for business" so lets attempt to keep moving forward with this discussion.

GMAFB with the I am the "bad guy" bullsh*t.

You have no f**king clue what charities I am involved in, or what I donate to so PLEASE hop down off of your pedestal. It must be hard to see with your head so high up in the clouds.

I am not calling you a liberal, which you claim not to be despite everything pointing to it, but you sure as hell are arguing like one... taking a statement and twisting it around until it meets your agenda while at the same time trying to portray yourself as such a great and caring person. It is nauseating.

You want it to move forward? Stop making ridiculous arguments like the "bottom line of my household".

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Ok, questions answered.

try it sometime...

it WILL change your perspective on business.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

GMAFB with the I am the "bad guy" bullsh*t.

You have no f**king clue what charities I am involved in, or what I donate to so PLEASE hop down off of your pedestal. It must be hard to see with your head so high up in the clouds.

I am not calling you a liberal, which you claim not to be despite everything pointing to it, but you sure as hell are arguing like one... taking a statement and twisting it around until it meets your agenda while at the same time trying to portray yourself as such a great and caring person. It is nauseating.

You want it to move forward? Stop making ridiculous arguments like the "bottom line of my household".

Lets keep it civil. You capable of that or do you just like breathing fire?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I know this may come as somewhat of a surprise to you and your cloistered little "Bottom Line or fuk it" world but there are some people who believe in helping others when they are in a position to do so. That could be a gigantic publicly held corporation or your next door neighbor.

And you are WRONG WRONG WRONG.

You said that "there are some people who believe in helping others when they are in a position to do so." and with that part you are correct. A publicly held corporation is not a person.

The CEO of said company is a person and if he/she wants to donate to charities on their own accord, great. I am all for it. THAT is someone in a position to help people. A publicly held corporation is there to make money. PERIOD.

...and you still never answered this. Instead you spun it into something else.

Originally Posted by Thomas

Never did I advocate shareholder profit should go towards flowers in another state or any other community project. Ever.

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

How do you figure that you didn't?

Unless the shareholders in a company are all local, that is EXACTLY what you said. Community projects cost money. They cost employee productivity if it is the employees themselves doing the work... which when it all boils down is also money. Money spent that doesn't result in a profit is a loss. Lost money = less profit. Less profit = less shareholder value.

Please, tell me where I am wrong in that statement rather than trying to spin it into something else like last time.

[LATB]

RedLS1 & Thomas...

the new Hannity & Colmes.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Lets keep it civil. You capable of that or do you just like breathing fire?

Again... get off of your horse. YOU are the one that started the personal sh*t with this.

Originally Posted by Thomas

Clearly it wouldn't be you, and that's too bad.

Even in this post you throw another shot with the "or do you just like breathing fire?"

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

the bottom line is all that matters.

I disagree with this statement.

i'm going to quote my own post:

Let me try again. A PUBLIC corporations FIRST responsibility is to the shareholders. Not to buy flowers, build parks, or donate to the United Way for instance.

However, in my opinion they also have a responsibility to the community they serve, but that comes AFTER the shareholders.

I'm curious; What do you do for a living and how old are you? No disrespect in this question, i'm just curious.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by LarsAtTheBeach

RedLS1 & Thomas...

the new Hannity & Colmes.

A good debate is good. No harm no foul.

[BuckyThreadkiller]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Let me try again. A PUBLIC corporations FIRST responsibility is to the shareholders. Not to buy flowers, build parks, or donate to the United Way for instance.

However, in my opinion they also have a responsibility to the community they serve, but that comes AFTER the shareholders.

Let me say it a third time. In no WAY the government should mandate this.


So you would be perfectly OK with BP (And I'm only using them for illustration purposes) not giving to

• American Red Cross
• Unicef

And ONLY concerning themselves with the bottom line?

In a perfect world, Yes.

That then enables the stockholders and employees to maximize the amount of money they receive from the corporation and distribute the money to charity as they personally see fit.

For instance - lets say you work for a company whose Board is comprised of mostly PETA members. They decide that the corporate charity should be PETA.

You, as an employee, may be a die-hard carnivore and think your wife looks fabulous in her mink and little else, but because the Company has become a "good corporate citizen" your profitable work, possibly your patents, copyrights and trademarks as done for hire go to support a cause you despise and you have no say other than to change jobs.


It's just like religion in school - its a warm fuzzy idea until you start running into who decides what religion gets supported.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I'm curious; What do you do for a living and how old are you? No disrespect in this question, i'm just curious.

At the moment, I am a 31 year old engineer with a Fortune 5 company. I grew up with a father who owned his own business (recently retired) and I spent 6 years as an officer in the Navy.

I am also a shareholder in quite a few companies, both large and small.

[Millenium Vette]

Originally Posted by LarsAtTheBeach

try it sometime...

it WILL change your perspective on business.

BTDT, 100% true. It's really hard to think about charity when you have no idea on Monday how you will meet payroll on Friday.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

At the moment, I am a 31 year old engineer with a Fortune 5 company. I grew up with a father who owned his own business (recently retired) and I spent 6 years as an officer in the Navy.

I am also a shareholder in quite a few companies, both large and small.

Thanks for that. It's good to know who your debating.

I also work for a Fortune 500 company, and am 50 years old.

For the record, I don't know what you do with your charitable dollar and it's none of my business. I have gotten the impression from your posts you're very much a bottom line kinda guy and perhaps didn't support things of this nature because of it.

trying to portray yourself as such a great and caring person

Great? Nope. Flawed like everyone else here. Caring? Yeah. I'm guilty. I don't LIKE seeing people sleeping in fukin' boxes in THIS COUNTRY. It bothers me. I don't LIKE people losing their homes because of the mess we are in. We have a person right here on this Forum who was struggling to make ends meet. That kind of shit bothers me.

When I see BP or Exxon post BILLION dollar profits and people in THIS COUNTRY are sleeping in boxes, THAT bothers me. (Although I don't quite know what the solution is. The solution is NOT to FORCE BP to fix it however)

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Maybe the fact BP/Exxon/Whomever made Billions of dollars in profit and people in this country are homeless is a non sequitur. I dunno.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Thomas

When I see BP or Exxon post BILLION dollar profits and people in THIS COUNTRY are sleeping in boxes, THAT bothers me.

Thomas, posts like above is what earns you the liberal label.