Uh oh. I'm breaking my policy

[NB2K]

Most (95%) folks should just work for someone else.

[JRD77VET]

Well written Pete

We were discussing this at work today and one of my coworkers made a comment that the protesters want "their piece of the pie". Evidently they (some of them ) feel since the gov't bailed out big businesses, they want the equivalent for them.

The figure of $50K per man, woman and child was what he said it equates to. Since not everyone in the US is monetary wise, the sudden cash flow could have had a very dramatic and positive effect on the economy.

Makes you wonder if the businesses that made bad decisions should have been left to crash and burn .......

[Joecooool]

I think many of you are missing the point of these protests. Fox just shows the loons and focuses on them to discredit the group while ignoring the core issues these people are pissed off about.

Our corporations are exporting jobs overseas. They fire Americans and hire cheap Chinese labor. Our country has lost its ability to manufacture goods and services. Think about that for a minute. These protesters didn't do that, corporations did.

Our corporations exploit loop holes in tax laws and many of them pay no taxes at all. You may say that's fine because all good businesses take advantage of every opportunity available to them. What you either ignore or don't understand is that these loop holes exist because corporations have paid politicians to create them.

And speaking of paid for politicians, that's the real problem. Corporate lobbyist have been working over these jerks for years. Politicians now answer to companies before citizens. With the recent Supreme Court decision overturning decades old campaign finance laws, we as individuals now matter even less. You really think our politicians are going to pass laws protecting Americans from corporations when its the companies paying for their campaigns? Our government is "loop holed" out of hundreds of billions of tax dollars every year. Corporations were able to do that by spending just about a combined hundred million dollars in political donations.

MOST of the very wealthy in this country derive their income from investments which are taxed at 15%. Sorry, but that's BULLSHIT. These people benefit more than anyone else from our system of government yet they pay less in taxes as a percentage of income than some schmuck making $50,000 a year. Any anyone calling these people "job creators" is an asshole. They are taxed at the lowest rate in more than half a century? What jobs are they creating? I call them "job destroyers" because these are the "investors" telling corporations they need to be more profitable and forcing them to export jobs overseas or lay off Americans to increase profits. Fcuk them, pay up.

In 2008, corporate executives made on average, about 319 times more than the average worker. Compare that to a multiple of 42 in 1980. The sums paid to executives on Wall Street are greater still, routinely reaching the tens of millions. Pay norms are so high in the financial services sector that the $17 million bonus paid to J.P. Morgan Chase Company Chairman James Dimon was called a “concession to criticism.” In 2008, Dimon’s bonus was $28 million. Where are they getting all the money to pay these ultra wealthy? Again, from outsourcing jobs, taking advantage of tax loop holes, and laying off Americans.

These are relatively new things that Americans have to face. This kind of shit wasn't so widespread just ten years ago. I understand why they are upset and I agree with their protest. If you want to look at the handful of nuts FOX parades in front of the camera and think this is what this is all about, well, that's on you.

Our country is going to shit because corporations have taken over the political process and now dictate the laws that are written.

[NB2K]

Our corporations are exporting jobs overseas. They fire Americans and hire cheap Chinese labor. Our country has lost its ability to manufacture goods and services. Think about that for a minute. These protesters didn't do that, corporations did.

Our corporations exploit loop holes in tax laws and many of them pay no taxes at all. You may say that's fine because all good businesses take advantage of every opportunity available to them. What you either ignore or don't understand is that these loop holes exist because corporations have paid politicians to create them.

And speaking of paid for politicians, that's the real problem. Corporate lobbyist have been working over these jerks for years. Politicians now answer to companies before citizens. With the recent Supreme Court decision overturning decades old campaign finance laws, we as individuals now matter even less. You really think our politicians are going to pass laws protecting Americans from corporations when its the companies paying for their campaigns? Our government is "loop holed" out of hundreds of billions of tax dollars every year. Corporations were able to do that by spending just about a combined hundred million dollars in political donations

FACT.

[syf350]

great, so instead of fixing our fecked up govt allowing the shit to happen, lets go after the corporations, so the next startup can do the same thing, and the next, and the next.

makes perfect sense to me. i mean that measly 15% CAN'T be wort a hill o beans in tax contributions

[NB2K]

Corporations are like electricity; they take the path of least resistance.

I can outsource jobs to make my numbers? I can buy favorable tax legislation?
Fine, do it.

It's all down in broad daylight, during business hours at the Hart and Rayburn buildings.

[syf350]

so where's the issue? they didn't make the rules, they are just playing by them.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by syf350

great, so instead of fixing our fecked up govt allowing the shit to happen, lets go after the corporations, so the next startup can do the same thing, and the next, and the next.

makes perfect sense to me. i mean that measly 15% CAN'T be wort a hill o beans in tax contributions

Going after corporations is silly.

They are playing by the rules (hell, they wrote the rulebook).

We have allowed this to happen.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by syf350

so where's the issue? they didn't make the rules, they are just playing by them.

Undue influence by lobbyists and campaign contributions on the political process.


IMHO.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by syf350

so where's the issue? they didn't make the rules, they are just playing by them.

No, they fixed the game by paying off the politicians to make the rules in their favor.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by JRD77VET

Well written Pete

We were discussing this at work today and one of my coworkers made a comment that the protesters want "their piece of the pie". Evidently they (some of them ) feel since the gov't bailed out big businesses, they want the equivalent for them.

The figure of $50K per man, woman and child was what he said it equates to. Since not everyone in the US is monetary wise, the sudden cash flow could have had a very dramatic and positive effect on the economy.

Makes you wonder if the businesses that made bad decisions should have been left to crash and burn .......

Damn straight they should.

Bitter medicine is bitter.

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by NB2K

Corporations are like electricity; they take the path of least resistance.

I can outsource jobs to make my numbers? I can buy favorable tax legislation?
Fine, do it.

It's all down in broad daylight, during business hours at the Hart and Rayburn buildings.

Attacking corporations won't fix this, however, being the way politicians are, they are very good at dragging others into the line of fire. Apparently it's time for the corps to get their bad press.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

No, they fixed the game by paying off the politicians to make the rules in their favor.

They did it legally, too. (OK, 95% of the time)

[syf350]

Originally Posted by NB2K

They did it legally, too. (OK, 95% of the time)

fact. i'm no way in favor of our jobs going elsewhere. but the corps are the wrong target to be in the scope. they have done nothing outside of being profitable businesses as required by their stockholders.

what we need is politicians that cant be bought, have an ounce of integrity, and a tax code/system that allows corporations to create jobs here and stay profitable. Not to mention a workforce that can go to work, expect to do a honest job for an honest pay, and get off all of our tits.


and oh, getting rid of unions sure wouldn't hurt the cause either.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by syf350

fact. i'm no way in favor of our jobs going elsewhere. but the corps are the wrong target to be in the scope. they have done nothing outside of being profitable businesses as required by their stockholders.

what we need is politicians that cant be bought, have an ounce of integrity, and a tax code/system that allows corporations to create jobs here and stay profitable. Not to mention a workforce that can go to work, expect to do a honest job for an honest pay, and get off all of our tits.


and oh, getting rid of unions sure wouldn't hurt the cause either.

Well the good news is, thanks to inflation and a rising standard of living for the Chinese, as well as wild swings in transportation costs, jobs (albeit a small %) are starting to come back here.

Unions are like petulant children, they should be disciplined and dealt with harshly. Management became the UAW's bitch and ultimately, they paid the price. Unions, by and large, are weak and getting weaker and that is a good thing.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by syf350

fact. i'm no way in favor of our jobs going elsewhere. but the corps are the wrong target to be in the scope. they have done nothing outside of being profitable businesses as required by their stockholders.

The stockholders, who in most cases are the ultra wealthy who then only pay 15% taxes. Think about that. They fire hundreds and in many cases thousands of workers who pay normal tax rates so that they can be more profitable for the handful of investors who then pay 15%. How fcuked up is that?

what we need is politicians that cant be bought, have an ounce of integrity, and a tax code/system that allows corporations to create jobs here and stay profitable. Not to mention a workforce that can go to work, expect to do a honest job for an honest pay, and get off all of our tits.

Many companies pay no taxes, many more pay hardly any taxes. With all the loop holes created by our politicians, U.S. corporations pay some of the lowest actual taxes of any industrialized nation.

And how are you going to get ethical politicians when corporations are bank rolling their campaigns? The only way is through campaign finance laws and the supreme court just shit all over that.

and oh, getting rid of unions sure wouldn't hurt the cause either.

There is a direct indisputable link between the decline of unions in this country and the decline in the middle class. Unions are not without their faults, but without them this country will lose the middle class.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

There is a direct indisputable link between the decline of unions in this country and the decline in the middle class. Unions are not without their faults, but without them this country will lose the middle class.

I disagree, as the union membership has fallen very dramatically relative to wages earned.

[Joecooool]

Originally Posted by NB2K

I disagree, as the union membership has fallen very dramatically relative to wages earned.

American Sociological Association: Study: Union Decline Accounts for Much of the Rise in Wage Inequality

[syf350]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

The stockholders, who in most cases are the ultra wealthy who then only pay 15% taxes. Think about that. They fire hundreds and in many cases thousands of workers who pay normal tax rates so that they can be more profitable for the handful of investors who then pay 15%. How fcuked up is that?

Many companies pay no taxes, many more pay hardly any taxes. With all the loop holes created by our politicians, U.S. corporations pay some of the lowest actual taxes of any industrialized nation.

And how are you going to get ethical politicians when corporations are bank rolling their campaigns? The only way is through campaign finance laws and the supreme court just shit all over that.

There is a direct indisputable link between the decline of unions in this country and the decline in the middle class. Unions are not without their faults, but without them this country will lose the middle class.

and that 15% is what percentage of taxes paid as a whole? i know their 1% is a whole hell of a lot more than my 28%. (or whatever the hell i pay. i actually dont even know what i pay, nor do i know how much i make)

I just can't subscribe to a theory that the wealthy are the bad guys. kudos to those making it big. they did their homework and made something of themselves. a whole lot more than i can say for the 47% of the population that we support.

If we are trying to regulate salaries, i'd be much more inclined to go after hollywood and professional sports before corporate america.

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

American Sociological Association: Study: Union Decline Accounts for Much of the Rise in Wage Inequality

Ummm...uh...

So wages increased for everybody except union workers?

Hell yeah, sign me the eff up!

I like to see a real economic study supporting your thought that union decline= a decline in the middle class.