The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[GRN ENVY]

Hybrid FTW......




My daily is an F150 Powerboost. 3.5ecoboost with an attached electric motor/ generator. Opted for the 7.2kw generator option to run necessities during power outages post Hurricanes (cause Florida). 30.6 gallon tank to run the onboard power. Comes in handy to have 600 mile range in the truck.

I can see an appeal to an EV for in town/ city driving. Plug it in once a week at the house and bop around town on errands etc. No worry on an extra stop or waiting in line at Costco for gas. Having spent some time around a Rivian R1S. Great Suv, and 3.0 sec 0-60 is fun. But my driving habits and the configuration of the Rivian showed I was around 280 mile range. Not ideal for a long trip.

At the end of the day. I want the ability to Drive for full 6-8 hours if I choose to. I can make it on a single tank to Atlanta from Fort Myers. 570ish miles, and 8 hrs of driving. Ev's don't have that ability, maybe one day. But not currently.

I think Hybrids are the way if the future, and more manufactures should get on board with hybrid functioanlity.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Apologies, I should have clarified. I don't eat that nasty shit and neither do my kids... and I'm not limited by what places have chargers so I don't have to. If I did feel like sitting down to eat which does happen on occasion, I can do it somewhere other than a fast food shithole or a gas station because it happens to have a charger.

I usually found a Restaurant close to a gas station?? Sure, there are more choices with gas stations as there are more. However, there are tons of food choices at chargers.

Irrelevant. You did exactly what you claimed you don't do. We eat in the car all the time and shockingly enough, my cars aren't the disgusting mess that you have made up to try to justify sitting in McDonalds. If you can't accomplish that, maybe you should learn to eat like a normal human being without dropping shit all over the place.

Most kids at a certain age are messy. I had them use a towel on their lap to catch any mess they make. It's not something I like to do but to avoid rush hour traffic, I did it that time.

What an absolute load of self righteous bullshit.

With that said, if it takes "looking back" for you to realize that driving around drunk is stupid, it actually says a whole lot about you.

Driving fatigued is just as stupid. I'm now old enough to understand that it's not ok putting others at risk. You may see it different.

I eat on road trips... and the funny part that you keep missing is that I actually eat much better than you do. It's easy to place an online order at a decent restaurant and pick up something in under 5 minutes as opposed to sitting in a shithole McDonalds for an hour so I can make sure that my car gets plugged in long enough to get me to the next Taco Bell.

You obviously necessarily have to ignore any normal food hours to order at a McD drive through during breakfast, lunch or dinner.. I can take a pic of McDonalds along I-4 here in florida during breakfast, lunch and dinner hours and there are at least 15 cars in line and it'll take 15 to 20 mins minimum.. Sure, you can go out of your way to eat at hours where most don't eat.. Up to you.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

How is that different from a regular trip? I never chose Hotels randomly. You usually get a much better rate if you reserve in advance..

How is it different? I choose my hotels based on what it is that I am actually doing as opposed than being forced into a select few ... because of my car.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You spend time every single day worrying about charging your car. It may be a minute having to plug it in and unplug it every time you leave, it may be hours sitting in parking lots on trips, it may be many things, but it is something that you deal with every single day. You use apps. You plan trips around it. Whether you are willing to admit it, it limits when and where you can go.

I spend less than 5 minutes a week even thinking about how much gas is in any given vehicle. I spend less time per week worrying about or filling up with gas than you spent going out of your way, even if just a block, and plugging in your car for your "free" charge.

Driving an EV is a lifestyle that you choose. You can try to argue that you save money, and I'm sure that for some people that may be true, but you also sacrifice a hell of a lot of capability to do so. Your inability to admit that is absolutely absurd.

Your life revolves around your car. Mine does not.

No, I'm not planning on charging. I have tons of activities that happen in areas that have free chargers. I don't need any excuse to go to our favorite Vietnamese Restaurant. We go there anyways and there happen to be a free fast charger nearby.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

How is it different? I choose my hotels based on what it is that I am actually doing as opposed than being forced into a select few ... because of my car.

The only requirement I have on a Hotel is that it's at least 3 stars as I don't want to be in a bug infested dump. Other than that, I do not care what Hotel it is. All major areas have Hotels that offer a charger. I don't have any preferred chain. Only criteria is "NO BUGS". Usually, most Hotels with chargers are 3+ stars, so, there is no issue. Unless you spend your vacation at a Resort, a Hotel on a road trip is just a clean place to sleep. Houston area has a ton of selection along my route and why does it matter if I pick one in the same category over the other one because it has a charger? Makes no friggin difference.

BTW, I do like Home 2 Suites and Cambria and both have chargers at many or most locations..

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I usually found a Restaurant close to a gas station?? Sure, there are more choices with gas stations as there are more. However, there are tons of food choices at chargers.

Like McDonald's and Taco Bell.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Most kids at a certain age are messy. I had them use a towel on their lap to catch any mess they make. It's not something I like to do but to avoid rush hour traffic, I did it that time.

Weathertech mats that I would have regardless and $10 seat covers that should be under any car seat to prevent the seats getting damaged anyway. I've never had to drape f-ing towels across my kids to prevent making a mess.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Driving fatigued is just as stupid. I'm now old enough to understand that it's not ok putting others at risk. You may see it different.

To clarify, your argument is that driving for 3 hours without stopping for 20 minutes... is comparable to and is "just as stupid" as driving drunk.

Why don't you go ahead and show the study from a reputable source that proves that a 3 hour drive without a 20 minute break is as dangerous as driving drunk.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You obviously necessarily have to ignore any normal food hours to order at a McD drive through during breakfast, lunch or dinner.. I can take a pic of McDonalds along I-4 here in florida during breakfast, lunch and dinner and there are at least 15 cars in line and it'll take 15 to 20 mins minimum.. Sure, you can go out of your way to eat at hours where most don't eat.. Up to you.

You have the reading comprehension skills of a dyslexic poodle.

I have never, not once in my f**king life, at any time of day, gone through a drive-thru with 15 cars in line. You are absolutely full of shit. And guess what, if there did happen to be 15 cars in whatever line I wanted to go through... I would go somewhere else, or wait an hour longer... because my car is capable of doing so, and I don't have to pick based on which place has a charger. I'm not limited to metro areas. I'm not limited to anything. I have a very large window to choose when and where I stop. I know... crazy concept.

Really? Feeding my kids McDonalds every 3 hours is the best argument you have?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Like McDonald's and Taco Bell.

It's different for every charger. You choose which charger you go to as you can see whatever the food options are at each. PLENTY of choices... not just fast food. Some have Panera, others are at WAWA and I love Wawa food.

Weathertech mats that I would have regardless and $10 seat covers that should be under any car seat to prevent the seats getting damaged anyway. I've never had to drape f-ing towels across my kids to prevent making a mess.

Not a fan of the looks of all weather floor mats. I could get a set for free using my referral miles but I'll pass.. Carpeted floor mats look so much better.

To clarify, your argument is that driving for 3 hours without stopping for 20 minutes... is comparable and is "just as stupid" to driving drunk.

If I'm at 0.09% alcohol level, I'm probably in better shape to drive than after driving 6 hours without stopping, especially late night.
BOTH is stupid.. I was young and stupid and I grew up in Austria where we would have a large beer or 2 with every meal and often more. No, I never drove completely wasted but I did drive many times when i was over the legal limit.

You have the reading comprehension skills of a dyslexic poodle.

I have never, not once in my f**king life, at any time of day, gone through a drive-thru with 15 cars in line. You are absolutely full of shit. And guess what, if there did happen to be 15 cars in whatever line I wanted to go through... I would go somewhere else... because I don't have to pick based on which place has a charger.

I can go and take pics of the drive through of every single McDonalds beside I-4 at 12:30 PM and I can guarantee you that the lines are long at every single one of them.

Really? Feeding my kids McDonalds every 3 hours is the best argument you have?

McDonalds is just one example. We stop for food at all types of places.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Have you ever gone into a McDonald along the highway during breakfast, lunch or dinner?? It's PACKED with families with kids.. If you think that you are representative, it would be empty and everyone would use the drive thru.

On the trip I have mentioned a few times (my son and I went 900 miles each way to a robotics competition with one stop each way for gas, piss, and food), my son wanted McDonald's food, so that is where we ate both ways. It was NOT "packed". There were people there, but plenty of empty tables, and short lines to get the food. We were also not there for anywhere near 45 minutes. We went in, pissed, got our food, ate it, and left. I doubt we were there for more than 20 minutes, and that was for a "sit down warm meal". Filling the tank was another 5 minutes, so 25 minutes stopped in 900 miles.

If we were really trying to minimize stopping time, we could have easily taken the food to go, and saved at least 10 minutes, still having your precious "warm meal".

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

It's different for every charger. You choose which charger you go to as you can see whatever the food options are at each. PLENTY of choices... not just fast food. Some have Panera, others are at WAWA and I love Wawa food.

And I can get either of those in less than 5 minutes. Panera has order ahead pickup. Walk in and grab it. Gone in 30 seconds. If you get Wawa, where are you eating it? The parking lot?

What's your point? The "I get hot meals" argument is stupid. Anybody who wants to do so can do the same thing in an ICE car... without sitting for an hour and without being limited to places with chargers.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Not a fan of the looks of all weather floor mats. I could get a set for free using my referral miles but I'll pass.. Carpeted floor mats look so much better.

You drive the car you drive and your argument is... how the floormats look? Holy shit. Best argument yet.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If I'm at 0.09% alcohol level, I'm probably in better shape to drive than after driving 6 hours without stopping, especially late night.
BOTH is stupid.. I was young and stupid and I grew up in Austria where we would have a large beer or 2 with every meal and often more. No, I never drove completely wasted but I did drive many times when i was over the legal limit.

So that's a no to the reputable (or any) study showing that driving for more than 3 hours is comparable to being drunk. Thanks for clarifying.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I can go and take pics of the drive through of every single McDonalds beside I-4 at 12:30 PM and I can guarantee you that the lines are long at every single one of them.

And as usual, you missed the point entirely. I have a massive window of both time and mileage. I don't have to stop at exactly 12:30 or in the middle of a large metro area (because that's where chargers are) unless I really want to do so. Never in my life have I sat in a 15 car line at a drive-thru and never would I, whether on a road trip or not. I have never, even when eating inside, spent 45 minutes in a shithole fast food place. That's absolutely absurd.



I still can't believe that this is really the best argument that you have.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And as usual, you missed the point entirely. I have a massive window of both time and mileage. I don't have to stop at exactly 12:30 or in the middle of a large metro area (because that's where chargers are) unless I really want to do so. Never in my life have I sat in a 15 car line at a drive-thru and never would I, whether on a road trip or not.

I think you'll find, as I have, that GS and Phred CAN NOT understand the difference between "want to stop" and "have to stop".

Next month, me, my wife, and my GSD will drive to Florida again, about 1200 miles each way. Unless I have some kind of mechanical issue with the vehicle, at no time will I "have to stop" because the car needs something. We've made that trip at least 6 or 7 times, and not once have we ever had to do that. We stop because someone is hungry or thirsty, because someone has to go to the bathroom, or because someone is uncomfortable and wants to walk around for a few minutes. That's it. EVERY stop is because we want to stop, ZERO stops because the car needs to be charged/fueled. It sounds like a nightmare to me to HAVE to stop 4+ times per day to charge my car.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Mick

I think you'll find, as I have, that GS and Phred CAN NOT understand the difference between "want to stop" and "have to stop".

Next month, me, my wife, and my GSD will drive to Florida again, about 1200 miles each way. Unless I have some kind of mechanical issue with the vehicle, at no time will I "have to stop" because the car needs something. We've made that trip at least 6 or 7 times, and not once have we ever had to do that. We stop because someone is hungry or thirsty, because someone has to go to the bathroom, or because someone is uncomfortable and wants to walk around for a few minutes. That's it. EVERY stop is because we want to stop, ZERO stops because the car needs to be charged/fueled. It sounds like a nightmare to me to HAVE to stop 4+ times per day to charge my car.

Just remember that normal human beings need to stop every 2 hours to eat at either a fast food place or a gas station at precise times that coincide with the largest crowds... and if you don't, you are a danger to yourself and others. You're welcome.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

And I can get either of those in less than 5 minutes. Panera has order ahead pickup. Walk in and grab it. Gone in 30 seconds. If you get Wawa, where are you eating it? The parking lot?

What's your point? The "I get hot meals" argument is stupid. Anybody who wants to do so can do the same thing in an ICE car... without sitting for an hour and without being limited to places with chargers.

I like dining in at Panera. Generally, other than not wanting my car to full of food stains, I also enjoy sitting down for a break while enjoying my food. Long before owning an EV, I have stopped for sit down food on virtually all my road trips. You give your body and focus time to recover while enjoying tasty food.

You drive the car you drive and your argument is... how the floormats look? Holy shit. Best argument yet.

So, you would want something that you'd consider ugly into your car?
I certainly wouldn't.

So that's a no to the reputable (or any) study showing that driving for more than 3 hours is comparable to being drunk. Thanks for clarifying.

I don't think that there are studies comparing the 2. Fact is that both of them are impairments. Alcohol affects different people differently. BOTH are wrong. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

And as usual, you missed the point entirely. I have a massive window of both time and mileage. I don't have to stop at exactly 12:30 or in the middle of a large metro area (because that's where chargers are) unless I really want to do so. Never in my life have I sat in a 15 car line at a drive-thru and never would I, whether on a road trip or not. I have never, even when eating inside, spent 45 minutes in a shithole fast food place. That's absolutely absurd.



I still can't believe that this is really the best argument that you have.

It has nothing to do with availability of chargers. As I pointed out, there are plenty of charging options.. Just check Interstate 10 in the SouthEast. Except for the area just west of Baton Rouge, there are fast chargers every like 30 miles or so. The key is to eat when you are hungry and not wait until the drive thru's are less busy. I eat when I'm hungry, not when I don't have to wait at the drive through.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

If I'm at 0.09% alcohol level, I'm probably in better shape to drive than after driving 6 hours without stopping, especially late night.

6 hours? Someone should notify the trucking industry...and Uber...and Lyft...and bus drivers...

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

6 hours? Someone should notify the trucking industry...and Uber...and Lyft...and bus drivers...

I happen to know 3 different people who were in crashes while riding in an UBER. One of them is my boss's boss who was in an accident in an UBER just 3 months or so ago..

Again, people doing it doesn't make it safe.. I'm sure 100's of thousands of people drive drunk without having an accident.

[Onebadcad]

Who pays for the construction of charging stations??
Who pays for the monthly costs of charging stations??

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I happen to know 3 different people who were in crashes while riding in an UBER. One of them is my boss's boss who was in an accident in an UBER just 3 months or so ago..

Again, people doing it doesn't make it safe.. I'm sure 100's of thousands of people drive drunk without having an accident.

How long had the driver been driving without stopping?

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

Who pays for the construction of charging stations??
Who pays for the monthly costs of charging stations??

Tesla pays for the charging stations.
The users pay for the monthly cost. There is about a 300% mark up on the price of electricity.
Electrify paid for many of the charging stations with their money (Volkswagen) after the Dieselgate settlement. Paying for those was part of the settlement.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

How long had the driver been driving without stopping?

I don't know.. Point is that Ubers are frequently in accidents..
Trucks are frequently in accidents and many accidents happen because the drivers didn't have enough sleep.
Just like the Walmart truck driver that hit that Tracy Morgan and Walmart had to settle for millions..

[Onebadcad]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Tesla pays for the charging stations.
The users pay for the monthly cost. There is about a 300% mark up on the price of electricity.
Electrify paid for many of the charging stations with their money (Volkswagen) after the Dieselgate settlement.

So, 100% of charging stations are non-taxpayer funded??

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Onebadcad

So, 100% of charging stations are non-taxpayer funded??

Not 100%. There is a pathetic attempt by government to build some but it's not going too well. The vast majority are privately funded even though there are subsidies... However, subsidies exist on many different things.... like farming etc...