Boston bombers... would you shoot?

[RedLS1GTO]

I saw this on the other forum and couldn't help but ask the question.


This was the view that 1 resident had of the shootout with the Boston bomber assholes.

Police... ~80 yards away



They were apparently getting ammo and bombs out of the Honda. By his own words "Here it's clear to see the brothers taking aim and firing on the officers."

Clearly he knew the situation, knew who these guys were from all of the news reports, could see that the police were being shot at, and had a perfect elevated covered position.

So, here is the question. If this was you, you were armed, you knew that the terrorists were right in front of your house and that the police were not at a tactical advantage, would you shoot?

It might be Uncle Sam's training coming out, but personally, I would not hesitate. M4, 75gr Hornady TAP FPD rounds, given the situation that obviously alive to question is better than dead, shoot them in the legs and take them down (not at all a hard shot from that range). IMMEDIATELY call 911, tell who I was and tell that I am a friendly. When questioned, the answer is very simple. "I feared for my life and aimed center of mass."

What sayeth VBOT.

[Will]

Only if I could be assured of incapacitating both of them WITHOUT killing BOTH of them.

EXTREMELY important that one lives for interrogation.

[MEC5LADY]

bang, bang.

[DAB]

no.

not my conflict. now, if they point a gun at me, then yes.

in hindsight, you know what was going on, but at the moment, you lack all sorts of needed info.

[Yerf Dog]

Camera. Too many unknowns. I don't trust the media to provide an accurate story and I have no idea what the police are up to.

[Loco Vette]

Very high risk of drawing return fire from the police that way.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Loco Vette

Very high risk of drawing return fire from the police that way.

Unfortunately I'd stay out of it, hell in TX you'd open yourself up to one hell of a lawsuit from the perps family.

[vtelvr]

It's kinda one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't scenarios...hard to say, but it makes sense to do either, if you knew you couldn't be charged with some bs charge because you took the law into your own hands...

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Loco Vette

Very high risk of drawing return fire from the police that way.

Yes... if you stick the gun out the window and they see muzzle flashes, that is probably the case.

It is also very stupid.

You have a perfect covered position. Shoot from inside the house out the window. They are 80 yards away. No way the police would even know where the shots came from. The muzzle flash would be hidden by the house, and with sounds echoing between buildings they would never be able to locate based on sound either. From their perspective, it would be coming from the same direction as the 2 brothers.

Hell, you could probably do it without anybody even realizing that you took a shot unless the coroner found some of your ammo.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by vtelvr

if you knew you couldn't be charged with some bs charge because you took the law into your own hands...

"I went to the window to see what the commotion was, they saw me, turned and aimed at me. I feared for my life. I aimed center of mass."


Prove me wrong.

[vtelvr]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

"I went to the window to see what the commotion was, they saw me, turned and aimed at me. I feared for my life. I aimed center of mass."


Prove me wrong.

You have a point, but most wouldn't make the shot, even from an elevated position...too many dangers behind the perps...especially with everyone ordered to stay inside. So, about a 95% chance of someone being in a window watching from the exact position 180* from that view point in the pics...Just my opinion.

[simpleman68]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Yes... if you stick the gun out the window and they see muzzle flashes, that is probably the case.

It is also very stupid.

You have a perfect covered position. Shoot from inside the house out the window. They are 80 yards away. No way the police would even know where the shots came from. The muzzle flash would be hidden by the house, and with sounds echoing between buildings they would never be able to locate based on sound either. From their perspective, it would be coming from the same direction as the 2 brothers.

Agreed on some counts but I think Doug summed it up about right. Hindsight is 20/20 and at the time the homeowner did not have all the details.

Of course, the average citizen would be happy to help law officials bring these guys down (with extreme prejudice)

Would be crazy if citizens helped police in shootouts. There's no way that would end well all the time. That is why they are trained to handle these situations; as you were also.

Me, I'd shoot out of self defense in a heartbeat. Other than that, I would call police and try to get them in through my backdoor to deliver the "coup de grace"
Scott

[vtelvr]

Originally Posted by simpleman68

Agreed on some counts but I think Doug summed it up about right. Hindsight is 20/20 and at the time the homeowner did not have all the details.

Of course, the average citizen would be happy to help law officials bring these guys down (with extreme prejudice)

Would be crazy if citizens helped police in shootouts. There's no way that would end well all the time. That is why they are trained to handle these situations; as you were also.

Me, I'd shoot out of self defense in a heartbeat. Other than that, I would call police and try to get them in through my backdoor to deliver the "coup de grace"
Scott

This. Call them and tell them you have a perfect angle for taking these dudes down with minimal police injuries, if any at all. Kinda the best thing to do...

[island14]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

Unfortunately I'd stay out of it, hell in TX you'd open yourself up to one hell of a lawsuit from the perps family.

That, and you can almost count on some prosecutor filing charges on you also.

Back in the old days they would of thanked you, in today's world you would go to jail.

[Grey Ghost]

I believe the cops knew who they up against. But, I'm not positive the homeowner knew...? Maybe he assumed at the time. But, how could he have had a positive ID to get involved ?

[Grey Ghost]

BTW...it would have taken me 20 seconds to reload my .69 smoothbore And, I would be lucky to hit the side of a barn with it.

[onedef92]

Originally Posted by vtelvr

You have a point, but most wouldn't make the shot, even from an elevated position...too many dangers behind the perps...especially with everyone ordered to stay inside. So, about a 95% chance of someone being in a window watching from the exact position 180* from that view point in the pics...Just my opinion.

Besides, if they' happen to start committing rounds to the window you're viewing out of, the last thing you'd want to do is stick your head up for a look's see.

I'd hunker down armed and let the LEO's do their job.

Now, if they try to bust/shoot through the door of my crib, then it's on like Donkey Kong. I'd be locked, cocked and ready to rock.

[kylebuck]

Problem with this idea, is that my 7 mag would blow off their limbs.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by simpleman68

Agreed on some counts but I think Doug summed it up about right. Hindsight is 20/20 and at the time the homeowner did not have all the details.

The homeowner stated that he witnessed them detonating bombs and they were very clearly shooting at unoformed officers. There was absolutely zero question in this case.

Yea, a random shootout on your street where you have no f'n clue what is going on would be different.

Originally Posted by island14

That, and you can almost count on some prosecutor filing charges on you also.

On what charges?

Again...

"I went to the window to see what the commotion was, they saw me, turned and aimed at me. I feared for my life. I aimed center of mass."

If some power trip prosecutor actually did, a judge would toss that instantly. If it did make it to a jury, there isn't one on the planet that would convict.

With that said, I could live with myself and take responsibility for my actions. On the other hand... let's say you don't shoot. The kid in the end DID get away. What if he had killed more people, which he could have EASILY done? Would you be able to live with the decision NOT to step up? Would you be able to face the family of anybody else harmed and tell them that you had a chance to save their loved ones life but didn't because you were scared of the possible legal ramifications?

Like the old saying goes... I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. There are people shooting countless rounds and detonating BOMBS right outside of your window. Many houses were hit with bullets. Capability, opportunity, and intent. The 3 things required for deadly force. They very clearly had all 3. THAT is imminent danger and with such you have the right to use deadly force to protect yourself.

Originally Posted by vtelvr

You have a point, but most wouldn't make the shot, even from an elevated position...too many dangers behind the perps...especially with everyone ordered to stay inside. So, about a 95% chance of someone being in a window watching from the exact position 180* from that view point in the pics...Just my opinion.

Yes, obviously you make sure you are not endangering anybody else. Look at the pics. You have a perfect angle. There is a brick wall blocking anything horizontally and a 75gr 5.56 round is going to fragment on pavement should you miss.

It is the absolute perfect spot to take a shot. Perfect angle on the bad guys, perfect cover, perfect view, and zero collateral concern.

By the time you would have gotten the police on the line, gotten them up to the window, etc it was well past over and the guy was gone.

Maybe you are correct in saying that someone without training/experience should stay put but the military instinct and training tells me to shoot... and I would not hesitate to do so.

[onedef92]

Maybe you are correct in saying that someone without training/experience should stay put but the military instinct and training tells me to shoot... and I would not hesitate to do so.

You've been professionally/militarily trained. Average Joe Homeowner? Prolly' not so much...