Workers beg Romney to stop latest Bain Chinese outsourcing

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Thomas

All valid points Red Goat, and I agree with most of them.

Be that as it may, it frosts my ass to hear about enormous golden parachutes, even bigger compensation packages, and retirement options while corporations ship jobs to Mexico to save a buck.

Surely CEO's need big compensation. They have big responsibilities. But the obscenity of many of these packages falls into my greed question.

Just curious, before you villify a golden parachute, do you understand the point of one?

[Loco Vette]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Workers beg Romney to stop latest Bain outsourcing | The Raw Story

Not only are they losing their jobs, they get to train their Chinese replacements before they go.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

Just curious, before you villify a golden parachute, do you understand the point of one?

Yes. A ginormous amount of money paid to a CEO as a severance package. Like a take-over or some such thing

Close enough?

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Yes. A ginormous amount of money paid to a CEO as a severance package. Like a take-over or some such thing

Close enough?

nope. That's a really weird description of what it is.

But says nothing about why it exists.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Yes. A ginormous amount of money paid to a CEO as a severance package. Like a take-over or some such thing

Close enough?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

I guess if all we're gonna do is shake our heads, I'll back out.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I guess if all we're gonna do is shake our heads, I'll back out.

An easy way to attempt to avoid being acquired is by increasing the cost of purchasing the company. There's really 2 ways to do that, increase the stock price (easier said than done), or increasing the purchase price, about the only way to do this is with golden parachutes. Basically a contract with the executives that promise huge sums of money, to be paid by a purchasing company.

Another way to increase the purchase price, would be to increase the assets, but this simply increases the incentive for an acquisition.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Thomas

All valid points Red Goat, and I agree with most of them.

Be that as it may, it frosts my ass to hear about enormous golden parachutes, even bigger compensation packages, and retirement options while corporations ship jobs to Mexico to save a buck.

Surely CEO's need big compensation. They have big responsibilities. But the obscenity of many of these packages falls into my greed question.

Having been on the receiving end of the outsourcing craze for the past three decades let me tell you some observations.

1) Most major American corporations NEVER wanted to send their manufacturing to China. I have sat in several meeting with both customer and employers and they fought back as hard as they could to not do it.

2) Now go walk around your house and point out all the things you have that were made in China and Asia or Mexico. And honestly tell me you would be willing to pay 50% to 100% more for the very same thing.

Now look at your phone bill, Internet bill and cell phone bill. Tell me you are willing to pay 50% to 100% more for them.

It was the CONSUMERS in America coupled with the Pension funds and the general investment market that drove them off shore. Due to the high costs of manufacturing in the USA due to all sorts of issues due to the Government and society in general it is no longer affordable to build many products in the USA.

Then add on top of all that the Asian market for many of these goods has grown so fast they are getting close to the same size as North America so why build here and pay that penalty?

[Yerf Dog]

Is Romney in a position with Bain to change any of this outsourcing?

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Be that as it may, it frosts my ass to hear about enormous golden parachutes, even bigger compensation packages, and retirement options while corporations ship jobs to Mexico to save a buck.

There is 1 very important factor that you are missing. Scale.

To you and me, a number of... say $10 million to a CEO seems enormous. It seems obscene at first glance. In the context of a billion dollar ADM company, it is nothing... barely a drop in the bucket.

Take for example GE, which in 2011 reported a $147 Billion revenue. Pay close attntion to the word revenue. This is NOT the same as profit.

All of a sudden, a $10 million dollar paycheck to the CEO (completely hypothetical) is put more in perspective in the fact that it represents .007% of the revenue. Simply put, this $10 million is not even remotely close to the amount of money that would drive them overseas (ironically GE is one of the few bringing jobs here to the US) Those numbers are in the BILLIONS of dollars. The scale of these big dollar CEOs compared to the outsourcing numbers is different by at least a factor of 100, if not much more. IN the scheme of these billion dollar corporations, a CEO making a few million dollars isn't even remotely a factor to whether or not jobs get exported when viewed in the correct scale.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Not only are they losing their jobs, they get to train their Chinese replacements before they go.

Care to explain how in the mind of a liberal, this is somehow attributable to Romney?

...or is this another of those situations where you simply choose to ignore reality?

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

Good discussion all.

FWIW, I just Googled what my understanding is of a GP and while my definition is somewhat crude and incomplete, it's relatively accurate for the point I was trying to convey.

So, what's the fix guys? I agree with most of the points here, but you'll have a hard time convincing some lunchpail to take a pay cut while the CEO rolls away with MILLIONS.

(Please save me the "It's not fair" nonsense. That's for Sea Six and his rubbish posts. This has been a good discussion thus far. )

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

So, what's the fix guys? I agree with most of the points here, but you'll have a hard time convincing some lunchpail to take a pay cut while the CEO rolls away with MILLIONS.

...

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You want to keep jobs here? I know I do... The ONLY way that will happen is if you make it profitible for them to stay. This is not a difficult concept. Make them want to stay and make it profitible for them to grow and they will. There are many pieces to this from asinine regulations, to taxes, to unions, to mandatory benefits. ALL of which need to be addressed.

...

Long story short, if you want businesses to stay here and to grow here, you have to make it profitible for them to do so.

More specifically, you have to make it as profitable to stay here as it is to leave. You can throw out hopes and ideals all day long, but the reality is that in the World of corporations with hundreds of billions of dollars on the line and tens of thousands of investors to answer to, they will follow the money.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Good discussion all.

FWIW, I just Googled what my understanding is of a GP and while my definition is somewhat crude and incomplete, it's relatively accurate for the point I was trying to convey.

So, what's the fix guys? I agree with most of the points here, but you'll have a hard time convincing some lunchpail to take a pay cut while the CEO rolls away with MILLIONS.

(Please save me the "It's not fair" nonsense. That's for Sea Six and his rubbish posts. This has been a good discussion thus far. )

It's fairly simple...be competitive as a nation. How do you do this?

1.) Lower taxes to match or beat competing countries, we're currently one of the highest tax rates in the world for businesses.

2.) Enact some fair trade practices...this doesn't mean countries can sell here with no tariffs while they turn around and tax our goods.

3.) You do more to protect companies from unions. If employees want to be unionized..that's fine. If the union wants to strike...that's fine too. But if the company wants to seek a new contracts elsewhere, rather than having the government step in and get involved....that's fine too! In other words, the government needs to back off.

4.) Yes we all need the EPA and other government entities to prevent companies from conducting certain atrocities, however, they need to be reined in, and be far more predictable, with far more reasonable powers.

5.) The US government needs to be a more stable business environment...ie. lock the tax rates at whatever rate they're going to be, for 10 or 15 years.

6.)They need to simplify the tax code, to enable smaller businesses to better compete with the larger companies that can afford whole buildings full of tax accountants.

7.) And my last but not least suggestion is that the Government show they they're a stable government for decades to come...ie. stop adding to the debt.

But, at the end of the day we must all realize that an uneducated, limited skill job is NOT a middle class job.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Good discussion all.

FWIW, I just Googled what my understanding is of a GP and while my definition is somewhat crude and incomplete, it's relatively accurate for the point I was trying to convey.

So, what's the fix guys? I agree with most of the points here, but you'll have a hard time convincing some lunchpail to take a pay cut while the CEO rolls away with MILLIONS.

(Please save me the "It's not fair" nonsense. That's for Sea Six and his rubbish posts. This has been a good discussion thus far. )

The "Fix" is to start educating our kids for the new reality instead of spending time on Diversity, Multiculturalism, Self Esteem and Sex Ed. We are ranked near the bottom of all industrialized nations in Math and science yet we spend the most to educate our kids.

Change the tax code to allow Multinational corporations to move profits from overseas into the USA with out massive penalties.

Review EPA regulations and make them really about the environment and no longer about the political believes of far left.

End the minimum wage and phase out ALL welfare over the next ten years ( both individual and Corporate)

Lastly Make the America people aware that since the end of WWII they have been living in an economic bubble and they need to get their shit together or they are going to live like Eastern European peasants in another few decades.

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Good discussion all.

FWIW, I just Googled what my understanding is of a GP and while my definition is somewhat crude and incomplete, it's relatively accurate for the point I was trying to convey.

So, what's the fix guys? I agree with most of the points here, but you'll have a hard time convincing some lunchpail to take a pay cut while the CEO rolls away with MILLIONS.

(Please save me the "It's not fair" nonsense. That's for Sea Six and his rubbish posts. This has been a good discussion thus far. )

This article is somewhat long, but it's also very interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/bu...pagewanted=all

Obama, at one point, asked Steve Jobs why they build their products in China and not the US. And this is his answer.

There's a lot to it, but it mainly comes down to the fact that they really can't manufacture their products in the US.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Chris Fowler

This article is somewhat long, but it's also very interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/bu...pagewanted=all

Obama, at one point, asked Steve Jobs why they build their products in China and not the US. And this is his answer.

There's a lot to it, but it mainly comes down to the fact that they really can't manufacture their products in the US.

I have a problem with the Definition of "Can't".

We can build anything we put our mind too. It's just we do not want too.

A great example is the iphone. When they were days away form production Steve Jobs decided they needed Gorilla glass. the Chinese were told they had to change their whole production line. They pulled in all their workers and re tools the line within DAYS. Could we do that here Yes. Will we ever be able to do it here unless we were on a War footing, Regrettably No.

We are the most technology advanced civilization the world has ever seen. We just lack the will and desire to be successful.

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by VITE1

I have a problem with the Definition of "Can't".

We can build anything we put our mind too. It's just we do not want too.

A great example is the iphone. When they were days away form production Steve Jobs decided they needed Gorilla glass. the Chinese were told they had to change their whole production line. They pulled in all their workers and re tools the line within DAYS. Could we do that here Yes. Will we ever be able to do it here unless we were on a War footing, Regrettably No.

We are the most technology advanced civilization the world has ever seen. We just lack the will and desire to be successful.

The EPA prevents a lot of manufacturing methods. I've not read the article, but I suspect that may have a part of it.

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by VITE1

I have a problem with the Definition of "Can't".

We can build anything we put our mind too. It's just we do not want too.

A great example is the iphone. When they were days away form production Steve Jobs decided they needed Gorilla glass. the Chinese were told they had to change their whole production line. They pulled in all their workers and re tools the line within DAYS. Could we do that here Yes. Will we ever be able to do it here unless we were on a War footing, Regrettably No.

We are the most technology advanced civilization the world has ever seen. We just lack the will and desire to be successful.

In this case I equate "can't" to it being economically unfeasible. "Can't" meaning if they were to build it in the US it would be too expensive to compete and would fail.

[VITE1]

Originally Posted by Stangkiller

The EPA prevents a lot of manufacturing methods. I've not read the article, but I suspect that may have a part of it.

EPA, OSHA, General attitude of American workers and all sorts of other legal, cultural and social reason we are falling behind.

Listen to people around you. Most have NO CLUE how well of they are and what it took to get there. They got lucky to be born in the Era of American dominance.

Listen to the Liberal Morons who keep telling us it our "Moral Imperative" to help the idiots who have kids they cannot afford, Drop out of school Drink and do drugs.

Then add in the corporate raider mentality of quarterly business planning and we are F**ked.

We produce more lawyers each year than the rest of the world COMBINED.

India produces more Medical professionals, Software Engineers and Electrical engineers each year than the rest of the world COMBINED.