Workers beg Romney to stop latest Bain Chinese outsourcing

[Joecooool]

Workers beg Romney to stop latest Bain outsourcing | The Raw Story

Not only are they losing their jobs, they get to train their Chinese replacements before they go.

[Taurus]

Originally Posted by Joecooool

Workers beg Romney to stop latest Bain outsourcing | The Raw Story

Not only are they losing their jobs, they get to train their Chinese replacements before they go.

This may explain it to you;

ST Income Statement | Sensata Technologies Holding N. Stock - Yahoo! Finance

Here's a hint for you, look at the earnings before tax line that went down from 2010 to 2011 and the income tax expense that went up from 2010 to 2011. Made less money paid more taxes. As a result, net income dropped from $130 in 2010 to $6 in 2011.

How can this be any more simple? If you want businesses to do well here, make it so they can compete or those horrible 1% ers will make their money elsewhere. Why should they take the risk to pay the Feds more so they can support more entitlements?

[Stangkiller]

The point of a business is to make money....if they can make more money by shifting jobs to a more favorable environment, quite honestly as an investor I'd be pissed if they didn't.

As a laborer, I'd be pissed at myself for not keeping my education up with the times a we've all known manufacturing jobs were leaving the US for quite some time now. not seeing a problem here.

[lander]

Simply the left trying to divert attention from real problems that face America.

The Romney campaign declined to comment on the situation at Sensata, but a spokeswoman contacted by AFP noted that the former Massachusetts governor retired from Bain in 1999 and his investments there are controlled by a blind trust, effectively nullifying his links to the firm.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

not seeing a problem here

Any time you have jobs leaving this country regardless of the reason, you have a problem.

Yes, you can blame the 80K/year guy pounding hubcaps on your F150 to some degree, I agree.

Do you guys believe in the concept of corporate greed? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm curious. Do you think it exists? Or is this just capitalism in action?

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Any time you have jobs leaving this country regardless of the reason, you have a problem.

Yes, you can blame the 80K/year guy pounding hubcaps on your F150 to some degree, I agree.

Do you guys believe in the concept of corporate greed? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm curious. Do you think it exists? Or is this just capitalism in action?

The problem is squarely in Washington, NOT with the business doing what it's supposed to do. Want to stop businesses from leaving the country, restructure taxes, and labor laws, so that its more beneficial to keep the jobs here.

[RedLS1GTO]

You want to keep jobs here? I know I do... The ONLY way that will happen is if you make it profitible for them to stay. This is not a difficult concept. Make them want to stay and make it profitible for them to grow and they will. There are many pieces to this from asinine regulations, to taxes, to unions, to mandatory benefits. ALL of which need to be addressed.

It is easy to sit at your computer and villify those evil, greedy business owners but the simple fact is that they are doing what they have to do to keep their businesses alive. It is so easy to say they are evil but I guarantee that if it was YOUR billion dollars on the line, you would do whatever it took not to lose it. Anybody who says they would sacrifice their own millions/billions of dollars and let their business fail because they don't want to be "greedy" is completely full of shit.

As for corporate greed... what does that actually mean? The point of a business is to make money. Period. What happens with that money is any of an infinite number of things that range from charity and the community to the CEO in a new Bugatti. The phrase "corporate greed" is another in a long line of phrases that has no prupose other than to try to villify any and all businesses. The community service, etc that comes from businesses is a function of the PEOPLE involved. The business is what allows them to make it happen. The business itself serves 1 purpose. Profit. What in turn happens with those profits via the CEO, board of directors, ect, is a completely different argument.

A business that does not make a profit is not a business. Despite what liberals tend to think, in the real world... you know... a world with financial realities, bills must be paid. It is a simple equaltion. If the income is less than the expendatures, you fail. Period. In today's America it is almost impossible to manufacture goods at a profit. Between the cost of raw materials being driven up and the asinine cost of labor and other mandatory expendatures, the only way to make a profit is to sell goods at prices that people don't want to pay.

Long story short, if you want businesses to stay here and to grow here, you have to make it profitible for them to do so. Until that happens, businesses will continue to leave. It's not any more complicated than that. You can either continue to vilify those evil rich business owners (which will get you nowhere but worse) or you could actually address the root cause of the problem and have a chance of fixing it.

[73sbVert]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

...

Long story short, if you want businesses to stay here and to grow here, you have to make it profitable for them to do so. Until that happens, businesses will continue to leave. It's not any more complicated than that. You can either continue to vilify those evil rich business owners (which will get you nowhere but worse) or you could actually address the root cause of the problem and have a chance of fixing it.

Perfectly said.

[Taurus]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Any time you have jobs leaving this country regardless of the reason, you have a problem.

Yes, you can blame the 80K/year guy pounding hubcaps on your F150 to some degree, I agree.

Do you guys believe in the concept of corporate greed? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm curious. Do you think it exists? Or is this just capitalism in action?

Yes, if I risk many hundreds of millions of dollars, I want to get a return on it that makes it worth the risk. If I can't get it, I'll put the money in a Swiss bank account and we all know how everyone feels about that legal shelter.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Taurus

Yes, if I risk many hundreds of millions of dollars, I want to get a return on it that makes it worth the risk. If I can't get it, I'll put the money in a Swiss bank account and we all know how everyone feels about that legal shelter.

Bullshit.

It is your moral obligation to use your hundreds of millions of dollars to support those who do nothing.

F**king capitalist swine.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

I agree Red Goat, but I'll still ask the question;

Are you OK with manufacturing leaving this country, REGARDLESS of the reason? Several people here have said time and time again, "I fail to see the problem"

If you truly fail to see the problem, then one must be OK with jobs leaving and there is no need for reform.

Yes? No? Go have another Diet Coke and comb your hair?

[73sbVert]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Bullshit.

It is your moral obligation to use your hundreds of millions of dollars to support those who do nothing.

F**king capitalist swine.

(you couldn't EVEN say that with a straight face, could you??)

[mrvette]

We get rid of the EPA and most of the rest of the useless .gov agencies, we could have about 50% of our manufacturing jobs back here in about 2 years.....

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Are you OK with manufacturing leaving this country, REGARDLESS of the reason? Several people here have said time and time again, "I fail to see the problem"

I don't want to speak for others, but I think you are misinterpreting what is being said.

I think I am safe in saying that NOBODY here wants to see jobs leaving this country. To answer for myself, no, I am not OK with it. With that said, I can't blame the companies for doing it. Every day I deal with manufacturing companies (metals for the most part) ranging from mom and pop shops to multi national Fortune 500 companies. I deal with everything from copper tubing manufacturers to machine shops, to steel and aluminum mills. Every American company, regardless of size, has the exact same issue. It is almost impossible to be profitable here. I hear it and live it every single day.

We put these business owners in an absolutely no-win situation. We villify them if they leave but if they stay, their business has no chance of surviving. What are they supposed to do given those choices?

You say REGARDLESS of the reason, but if the reason is quite simply that they will go bankrupt... I don't see what other choice they have.

[RedLS1GTO]

I have a scenario for you.

You are the owner of a small/medium American tool shop that makes stamped steel parts. The part that makes up ~80% of your volume sells for $1.00 each from a Mexican company. Between raw material and labor, it costs you $1.15 to make the same part. (very simplified cost numbers, but you get the point) You have cut as much as possible and even laid off (or reduced pay to) a good number of your salaried employees to reduce cost. The majority of your other parts fall into the same scenario in which your base costs are higher than Mexican and Chinese competitors sale price w/shipping included.

What do you do?

...and for the record, these are very close to actual numbers from a company that a friend works for.

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

What do you do?

I go to Mexico, but I'm not happy about it.

No business should ever have to operate at a loss that's a given. And in your example, that's what would happen.

But this is where the corporate greed question come in. Could some corporations survive on a smaller profit margin and keep manufacturing here in the USA?

[Stangkiller]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I go to Mexico, but I'm not happy about it.

No business should ever have to operate at a loss that's a given. And in your example, that's what would happen.

But this is where the corporate greed question come in. Could some corporations survive on a smaller profit margin and keep manufacturing here in the USA?

No, another business will continue to cut those profits until they aren't making a profit any longer.

Red's right you're misreading my "I don't see a problem". I don't see a problem with what the business is doing. I do see a problem with the business environment our government has created.

If a business requires a 70% ROI, that's their prerogative, and somebody somewhere else will jump into that business and undercut those profits pretty quickly.

I don't see corporate greed as nearly the problem as you're trying to paint it. Sure a few pensions got raided a few decades back, and that was pretty shitty, but THAT i feel was an issue with the regulators, the businesses did what was legal at the time.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I go to Mexico, but I'm not happy about it.

The owner of the company I used as an example decided that he didn't want to go to Mexico and instead cut his losses and liquidated. Over the 20 years that the company was around, it made him a fairly wealthy man... not a billionaire, but he has plenty to live out the rest of his life. He did not want to close or move overseas. His vision was to pass it on to his 2 sons, who were basically running the company already.

150 American workers are now without jobs because this company failed, despite the owner doing absolutely everything in his power to keep it alive (including losing a decent part of the afore mentioned net worth).

Does this make him a villain?

Originally Posted by Thomas

No business should ever have to operate at a loss that's a given. And in your example, that's what would happen.

The problem is that in the absolutely toxic manufacturing environment in this country right now, that is the norm rather than the exception.

Originally Posted by Thomas

But this is where the corporate greed question come in. Could some corporations survive on a smaller profit margin and keep manufacturing here in the USA?

Could some survive on a smaller margin? I'm sure they could... but why should they be forced to? Could you personally give your own wealth to the community and survive with less than you have? Of course you could. We all could. Does that make us guilty of the same greed?

Do you think Bill Gates and Steve Jobs set out to be moderately sucessful? Were P&G and GE founded with the intent of simply surviving? Should Arthur Blank have been satisfied with his profits from 1 Home Depot store?

Allowing businesses to thrive... not just "survive" is what makes this country great. Your idea is fine in theory, but it fails miserably in reality. Do you really think someone will invest millions of dollars and put everything on the line just to build a company that will "survive"? It is an idealist answer to a problem that exists in reality.

[Chris Fowler]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Allowing businesses to thrive... not just "survive" is what makes this country great. Your idea is fine in theory, but it fails miserably in reality. Do you really think someone will invest millions of dollars and put everything on the line just to build a company that will "survive"? It is an idealist answer to a problem that exists in reality.

"Economic realities do not excuse us from our moral obligations."

[Giraffe (He/Him)]

All valid points Red Goat, and I agree with most of them.

Be that as it may, it frosts my ass to hear about enormous golden parachutes, even bigger compensation packages, and retirement options while corporations ship jobs to Mexico to save a buck.

Surely CEO's need big compensation. They have big responsibilities. But the obscenity of many of these packages falls into my greed question.