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Old 06-14-2024, 12:04pm   #321
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Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO View Post
OK, you say that, and if you stopped there, you would be just fine. But you don't. Ever. You without fail do your best to minimize the negatives. You do your best to dismiss everybody who doesn't want them. You use words like "normal people", which implies that everybody else is abnormal. You try to use extremes to make it sound like these exceptions are rare.

See Exhibit A.) below.



Frequently. Frequently. ALL other scenarios.

It simply is not true.

It doesn't have to be FREQUENTLY. If I have to tow a camper 1 time from Ohio to Florida, the "truck" is going to be a MAJOR problem. It doesn't have to be heavier than an EV can haul. I don't have to do it weekly for that to be true. If I want to go to Indy for a kart race every couple of months, the "truck" won't work. I don't have to do these things every few days for it to be a problem. It doesn't work. EVER. "Frequently" is not a part of the equation.

The same is true for your 200 mile argument. FREQUENT doesn't have anything to do with it. You want math? Let's do some real math. Ignoring every insurance cost and every other reality and going only by gas costs, by your BEST and absurdly skewed argument, the savings of an EV over a gas truck was $135/month. If you don't agree, feel free to look back in this thread.

How many times do you have to stop to charge with a 2 man crew to lose $135 worth of time? I'll give you a hint. It's less than 1. 1 time per month, and your "savings" have turned into a loss. If you want to have an honest discussion, great. As long as you are hellbent on trying to dismiss and minimize the negatives, that doesn't happen. When your "math" starts with what you want the answer to be and you twist everything you have to twist to get there, it's not going to happen.

The answer is very simple. For tradesmen, an EV does not make sense. It doesn't make sense for multiple reasons that have been spelled out by numerous people. They don't work well with trailers. They don't have range. They cost more for business insurance. They require more infrastructure. Etc. Etc. Etc. You are having this explained by people who live in this world every day. People who use a truck for a living don't want to plan their day around it. They don't want to have to worry that they will make it to their destination with the 3rd load of the day. They don't want to have to sit if someone forgot to plug it in at the end of a shift. They don't want to worry about making it home after the day is done. The function of a work truck is to be invisible. Working MOST of the time is simply not good enough. That's how business works. Refusing to believe it, because it doesn't give you the answer that you want is absurd.

Which takes us back to the part that you don't approach this subject honestly. You don't approach it logically. You approach it as a belief system. Just as people argue about any particular religion, you are completely closed to anything that challenges that belief. No matter how much fact or proof there is, it doesn't matter. You quite simply dismiss anything that goes against. If you want something resembling an honest discussion, that has to change.

Or, keep doing what you're doing...

Either way.
Yes, for those who have a camper and want to take it far, an EV truck is not an option. Do you honestly think that a high percentage of truck owners tow campers for a longer distance? I rarely ever see 1/2 ton trucks towing campers.. Maybe 1 in 1000 trucks I see on the road are pulling a camper.
An EV truck makes no sense if a large part of charging happens at public chargers rather than the company location. I've said that many times. The whole advantage of cheaper fueling goes away the moment you rely on public pay chargers. I'm talking about scenarios where a typical work day is less than the vehicle's range on the VAST MAJORITY of work days. I don't think that there are statistics on that available but I'm pretty sure many businesses have similar usage patterns like that. Do I know it for a fact? No.
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Old 06-14-2024, 12:29pm   #322
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Yes, for those who have a camper and want to take it far, an EV truck is not an option. Do you honestly think that a high percentage of truck owners tow campers for a longer distance? I rarely ever see 1/2 ton trucks towing campers.. Maybe 1 in 1000 trucks I see on the road are pulling a camper.
An EV truck makes no sense if a large part of charging happens at public chargers rather than the company location. I've said that many times. The whole advantage of cheaper fueling goes away the moment you rely on public pay chargers. I'm talking about scenarios where a typical work day is less than the vehicle's range on the VAST MAJORITY of work days. I don't think that there are statistics on that available but I'm pretty sure many businesses have similar usage patterns like that. Do I know it for a fact? No.
So I see you're going with option B. Keep doing what you're doing.

It doesn't have to be a camper. It doesn't have to be often. Holy shit. Stop using stupid ass extremes and exaggerations to try to minimize it.

What in the hell part of this are you not understanding? They don't work for tradesmen. You've been told why about a dozen times by multiple people. It is not difficult to understand. Typical doesn't matter. A "large part" isn't enough. A VAST MAJORITY is not good enough for a WORK truck.

I just showed you the very basic math... which ironically enough, was YOUR math. Once a month. 1 day a month and all of those rainbow and unicorn savings that you claim turn into a loss. You can't use an EV truck to do those things EVER without incurring an enormous inconvenience that also almost immediately eliminates all of those savings that you keep trying to claim. It takes exactly 1 trip, 1 city away (in my specific case, Cincinnati to Indianapolis), with any trailer, even a small one, to eliminate ALL of the gains you keep claiming. 1 trip.

You keep making the same stupid claim that they don't work for people who FREQUENTLY do those things. They don't work for people who EVER do anything whatsoever outside of a single metro area. EVER.

Please explain what part of that you cannot seem to grasp.

An EV "truck" does absolutely NOTHING better than an ICE equivalent. NOTHING. Not a single thing beyond accelerating in a straight line... that's it. That's the 1 thing it does better. EVERYTHING else is worse. So yes, if you are someone who doesn't EVER use a truck as a truck, who doesn't EVER leave your own little metro bubble, and who wants a novelty vehicle. Yea, they're great for you. It's a novelty. Nothing more, nothing less. Trying to make your continuous arguments that it's as capable as other trucks is absolute nonsense.

Oh. Correction. You can also throw shit at it. It apparently does that better too.
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Old 06-14-2024, 12:42pm   #323
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Don't confuse religion with plain old stubbornness. Whether it's EVs or food and drink, once Oliver makes up his mind absolutely nothing anyone says is ever going to change it.
His responses are well beyond being stubborn. He is an absolute zealot, no different than the climate change people, gun control people, or any other person that willfully dismisses and ignores facts in lieu of their idealistic beliefs.
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Old 06-14-2024, 12:54pm   #324
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His responses are well beyond being stubborn. He is an absolute zealot, no different than the climate change people, gun control people, or any other person that willfully dismisses and ignores facts in lieu of their idealistic beliefs.
You can eat a slice of pizza while racing if you don't need to shift.
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Old 06-14-2024, 12:57pm   #325
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You can eat a slice of whole pizza while racing if you don't need to shift.
Fixed for accuracy.
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Old 06-14-2024, 12:59pm   #326
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BTW, not truck related but EV related. An increasing amount of food delivery drivers and UBER/LYFT drivers are switching to EV's. Lots of short trips, mostly around town. That's when EV's are most efficient and have the best range.
Exactly. Maybe Uber or a courier or food delivery.
But not tradesmen or service providers. Itís really that simple.
Happy to see that you finally agree.
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Old 06-14-2024, 4:07pm   #327
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Old 06-14-2024, 7:08pm   #328
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Exactly. Maybe Uber or a courier or food delivery.
But not tradesmen or service providers. Itís really that simple.
Happy to see that you finally agree.
No reason why it wouldn't work if the usage pattern of a work truck would be similar to a food delivery vehicle or a Uber. It all depends on usage pattern.
You and RedLS1GTO seem to claim that it wouldn't work for a single business. That's just not true. Of course, we don't have usage statistics from all businesses using pickup trucks but I'm sure that there are businesses who do not exceed even 150 miles per day with their trucks.
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Old 06-14-2024, 7:19pm   #329
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No reason why it wouldn't work if the usage pattern of a work truck would be similar to a food delivery vehicle or a Uber. It all depends on usage pattern.
You and RedLS1GTO seem to claim that it wouldn't work for a single business. That's just not true. Of course, we don't have usage statistics from all businesses using pickup trucks but I'm sure that there are businesses who do not exceed even 150 miles per day with their trucks.
Iím saying that tradesmen do not want an EV truck. I can not be any more clear.
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Old 06-14-2024, 7:20pm   #330
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Old 06-14-2024, 9:56pm   #331
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Iím saying that tradesmen do not want an EV truck. I can not be any more clear.
As a work truck, it has absolutely zero positives. Zero. It has numerous negatives.

So yes, if you are the type of businessman that wants to spend an assload of money for a less capable product, it is indeed the perfect vehicle for you.
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Old 06-14-2024, 9:58pm   #332
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No reason why it wouldn't work if the usage pattern of a work truck would be similar to a food delivery vehicle or a Uber. It all depends on usage pattern.
You and RedLS1GTO seem to claim that it wouldn't work for a single business. That's just not true. Of course, we don't have usage statistics from all businesses using pickup trucks but I'm sure that there are businesses who do not exceed even 150 miles per day with their trucks.
It doesnít matter if a business uses it 50 miles or 200 or 500 miles per day. Itís less capable and even using your unicorn math and a truck that doesnít even exist you still canít spin anything close to a relevant amount of savings.

You lacking the ability to understand that very simple reality doesnít change it.
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Old 06-15-2024, 12:56pm   #333
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Tesla sound upgrade....


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Old 06-15-2024, 1:39pm   #334
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His responses are well beyond being stubborn. He is an absolute zealot, no different than the climate change people, gun control people, or any other person that willfully dismisses and ignores facts in lieu of their idealistic beliefs.
This is exactly the case and why further posting is not necessary. I have relatives who feel the same way about climate change, etc. Facts and science have zero influence in their world. ZERO. It's all about 'The Cause'.
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Old 06-15-2024, 4:23pm   #335
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Oh shit - now DJ wants a Tesla!
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