The next time a person tells me their 1/2 ton gasser tows great..

[Fastguy]

Avalanche is almost dwarfed by the Sea Ray.



I tow these three trailers with my F-250 all the time. Open car trailer, 18' boat, loaded auto-x trailer.









Greatest tow rig ever.

[C5Nate]

Originally Posted by Gozar

I am gonna tell them bullshit to their face. I towed our boat with our 3/4 ton 6 liter Suburban today and it felt pathetic compared to my Duramax truck. Sure it trailed fine and braking was more than adequate but there is no freaking comparing the two. They don't even belong in the same sentence.

Sorry Fastguy, my diesel makes a great daily driver. My CC, 4x4 makes it the most versital vehicle I have ever owned. 40% more? How do you figure that? My truck was just a few $$ short of 50k, the Dmax option was $5,000 and change. I’m no math wiz but that aint no 40%.

Gozar's original statement that anyone who says their gas truck tows as well as a diesel is full of it is correct. I've had Z71's and 7.4 liter 1 ton's. The Dmax outperforms them in every aspect.

I get the best MPG of any truck I have ever owned. Yes diesel runs about the same as premium or a few cents more but its not a game changer IMHO. 23+ mpg is great IMHO for all this truck does for me.

Of course when I bought my diesel back in '03, diesel was ALWAYS .10 - .15 cents cheaper. (Damn Chinese). I can and do run bio-diesel and UVO diesel which ads to the versatility in a fuel crises.

Since our other car is the C5, the duramax is our family car. I can haul 5 people in complete comfort, not crammed together like they would be in a midsize car.

We do a lot of projects around the house both inside and out so when we go the local nursery, Lowes or Home Depot I never have to worry about bringing something home.

I never have to worry about getting around in inclement weather, snow, heavy rains, flooded streets or farm roads. I know my truck will take me there.


I enjoy sitting higher, above the traffic and can see down the road. At 7,300 lbs I will win most traffic accidents.

Even at 160k + miles, I know that I can go across country any time, any day and not need to worry about reliability or putting too many miles on the truck.

The truck is fast, I've been in the 12's on gas. With EFI live, I have complete control of the ECM and TCM.

I really dont get where anyone thinks they cost more in maintenance and repairs because they dont. My Dmax has been the most maintenance free truck I have owned hands down.

For versatility, dependability, fuel mileage and even for a lead footed old hot rodder, its hard to think of a better combination than what I have sitting in the driveway right now.

While a gas truck is sufficient in most cases, a diesel truck is exceptional in all cases.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Gozar

The next time a person tells me their 1/2 ton gasser tows great... I am gonna tell them bullshit to their face.

Originally Posted by C5Nate

Gozar's original statement that anyone who says their gas truck tows as well as a diesel is full of it is correct. I've had Z71's and 7.4 liter 1 ton's. The Dmax outperforms them in every aspect.

No, his original statement is quoted above. Big difference in wording. Any idiot knows that a diesel 1 ton is going to tow better than a gas 1/2 ton but to say that gas trucks can't tow at all is stupid.

[Gozar]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

No, his original statement is quoted above. Big difference in wording. Any idiot knows that a diesel 1 ton is going to tow better than a gas 1/2 ton but to say that gas trucks can't tow at all is stupid.

How ironic that you are correcting Nate and you screw it up. Show me where I said "gas trucks can't tow at all"




Read it again. "Tows great"

While I agree "tows great" is subjective you have to also agree it is relative.

Like I said, tow with my Duramax and then tow the same load with a 1/2 ton gasser and then tell me which one was "great".

[Gozar]

Originally Posted by Fastguy

Of course compared to a diesel it will have way less power, but keep in mind what a Suburban is. Its a truck disguised as a big station wagon so its suspension is very soft. We have had 9 Suburbans in the family, a 74,77,85,86,93,99,99,00 and an 02 and an 02 Avalanche.
They were all 1/2 smallblocks tons with the exception of the 86 which was a 3/4 454.

Mine is a 3/4 ton. Suspension softness isn't the issue. In fact I said that braking and suspension were fine. Going down a flat freeway is also fine. Maybe the issue here is all the people living in flat land never really experience true varied terrain pulling?

[

Suburban all the time, but we are only going about 25 mph from one side of town to the boat ramp and its mostly level. To tow through the mountains on the highway, I would go with a bigger truck. One day we used my buddy Paul's new crew cab Duramaxx/Allison GMC, a clone to your truck, and it ruled. It has stupid pulling power and is definitely what I would use to pull an enclosed car trailer cross country or a big cruiser, but its overkill for my open trailer or my 18' bowrider.

I used to tow an 18' bowrider with my old Tahoe. There wasn't any issue either and I agree, you definitely don't need a diesel to pull something like that across flat ground.

Everything is a compromise. While a crew cab diesel is an awesome tow vehicle, it costs almost 40% more than a gas motor truck,it blows as a daily driver, its expensive to fuel, and when it breaks, your f'd in the a. My truck definitely downshifts on grades and in the Berkshire Mountains, it will hold 2nd gear at 4k for a mile or so uphill, but that is what its designed to do.

Not sure I agree with any of this and I rarely disagree with you.

My Duramax/Allison option was $6800. Thus making it about 20% more expensive.

As a daily driver it has been better than my gas trucks I have owned. I getter better fuel economy and I can beat C4s all day long.

Heading back out on the boat again today.

[cmb396]

Originally Posted by Gozar

Thanks man! It is a 2007 Mastercraft X15. Your rig looks damn sweet itself!

Thanks, and awesome boat!! We looked at MC's, Supras, and malibu's when we were shopping. I really liked the layout and design of the Malibu's, but then I came across the Rinker R1. For the deal I found on it, I could not pass it up. It doesn't have ballasts like the other wakeboard boats, but I can live with that...were not out competing, just playin around, so it's all good!!

pics from the marina I got it from...

[Vet4jdc]

After reading many (all) of the comments here...I'm inclined to agree with both the diesel owners and the gassers. The point is.....what are you towing and what's the weight? Most gassers are adequate for towing and stopping boats and car trailers that weight somewhere in the 4000 lb to 6000 lb range or slightly above. If you're towing a larger hauler or a camper that weighs 8000 lb - 10,000 lbs....that's a whole different story. My F250, 3/4 ton diesel is a good DD but is used for towing a travel trailer. It won't struggle in the mountains like my gas F150 did. And the diesel will still get 18 mpg towing instead of the 8 mpg that the gasser would. That's just my 2 cents!

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Gozar

How ironic that you are correcting Nate and you screw it up. Show me where I said "gas trucks can't tow at all"

Read it again. "Tows great"

While I agree "tows great" is subjective you have to also agree it is relative.

Like I said, tow with my Duramax and then tow the same load with a 1/2 ton gasser and then tell me which one was "great".

So I paraphrased...

I would have no problem saying that my old Yukon "towed great" with a load that it was designed to tow. In the time I owned it, I towed thousands of miles with all sorts of loads in it. That doesn't mean that I think it tows better than a diesel 1 ton with the same load. The 2 statements are completely independent of each other.

Comparing a 1/2 ton to a big diesel in terms of towing has to be one of the dumbest arguments in the history of the internet. No shit the diesel is better. It doesn't mean that the gas can't make a great tow vehicle (depending on your needs). I have towed with everything from a 1980s S-10 to a Kenworth 900. For the level of towing that YOU do, your Duramax might be "great" but comparing it to the Kenworth, not so much. Tow with the Kenworth and then tow the same load with your Duramax and then tell me which one was "great". (see how relativity works?)

Does the fact that it is nowhere close to the Kenworth make your truck any less "great" for what you use it for? No. Just like your truck doesn't have any bearing on a 1/2 ton being a "great" tow vehicle for some other people's needs.

So let's see if I get the quote right this time...

Saying that a 1/2 ton gasser can't "tow great" based on the fact that a big diesel tows better is an absolutely ignorant comment.


What a stupid ass argument. Damn, I need to find something better than this to do on a Sunday afternoon. Have fun, I'm out.

[Gozar]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

So I paraphrased...

I would have no problem saying that my old Yukon "towed great" with a load that it was designed to tow. In the time I owned it, I towed thousands of miles with all sorts of loads in it. That doesn't mean that I think it tows better than a diesel 1 ton with the same load.

Comparing a 1/2 ton to a big diesel in terms of towing has to be one of the dumbest arguments in the history of the internet. No shit the diesel is better.

It wasn't an argument. I said that they aren't great tow vehicles and I stand by it. Can they tow? Yup. Are they great? No.

It doesn't mean that the gas can't make a great tow vehicle (assuming you are towing something within reason). I have towed with everything from a 1980s S-10 to a Kenworth 900.

I love this. Everyone becomes "the man that towed everything" in these threads.

For the level of towing that YOU do, your Duramax might be "great" but comparing it to the Kenworth, not so much. Tow with the Kenworth and then tow the same load with your Duramax and then tell me which one was "great". (see how relativity works?)

Not a practical argument. You cannot purchase within reason (cost wise) a Kenworth. Also I can out-accelerate a Kenworth so thus I am still correct.

Does the fact that it is nowhere close to the Kenworth make your truck any less "great" for what you use it for? No. Just like your truck doesn't have any bearing on a 1/2 ton being a "great" tow vehicle for some other people's needs.

So, you could have spent $6800 more and had a superior vehicle for towing and basically no impact to daily driving (except a little bit of ride). Your argument doesn't hold. My point is a little more makes a HUGE difference. Keep also in mind some people in here are bragging about loads of 6k lbs and greater.

So let's see if I get the quote right this time...

Saying that a 1/2 ton gasser can't "tow great" based on the fact that a big diesel tows better is an absolutely ignorant comment.

If you say so. But again, I still chuckle listening to them whine and shutter shifting while a lug on by. I will remember to tell myself they are "towing great!"

[Fastguy]

Originally Posted by Gozar

Not sure I agree with any of this and I rarely disagree with you.

My Duramax/Allison option was $6800. Thus making it about 20% more expensive.

As a daily driver it has been better than my gas trucks I have owned. I getter better fuel economy and I can beat C4s all day long.

Heading back out on the boat again today.

That is a screaming deal. When I was shopping for trucks, I priced out a GMC diesel extra cab 3/4 ton with plow/tow package and a Fisher plow. It was coming in at $52,000. A similar GMC 6.0 truck was about $42,000, the F-250 was $36,000. I just couldn't see spending almost that more on the diesel.
We call Paul's GMC crew cab "The Red Neck Cadillac" because it is a fantastic truck, and it tows like the trailer is invisible, but it is a fuel pig for commuting. I guess my F-250 is too, but if I were to spend that much money on a truck, it would have to be my DD to justify it. I would love to buy one, but the cost is the main thing. For something I am going to use on weekends, I can't justify the cost. You also turn your vehicles over way faster than I do. I tend to keep mine to the point of catastrophic failures so when they start to break, the diesel stuff is more expensive. Was planning on going out on the boat, but going to the range instead.

[Gozar]

Originally Posted by Fastguy

That is a screaming deal. When I was shopping for trucks, I priced out a GMC diesel extra cab 3/4 ton with plow/tow package and a Fisher plow. It was coming in at $52,000. A similar GMC 6.0 truck was about $42,000, the F-250 was $36,000. I just couldn't see spending almost that more on the diesel.
We call Paul's GMC crew cab "The Red Neck Cadillac" because it is a fantastic truck, and it tows like the trailer is invisible, but it is a fuel pig for commuting. I guess my F-250 is too, but if I were to spend that much money on a truck, it would have to be my DD to justify it. I would love to buy one, but the cost is the main thing. For something I am going to use on weekends, I can't justify the cost. You also turn your vehicles over way faster than I do. I tend to keep mine to the point of catastrophic failures so when they start to break, the diesel stuff is more expensive. Was planning on going out on the boat, but going to the range instead.

I paid 38k out the door for my 2500 Duramax LT1 package.

I think it stickered for roughly 42 or 44. Can't exactly remember.

[carlton_fritz]

Originally Posted by NB2K

I'd buy a Tundra waaaay before I'd buy a Dodge.

I didn't say Dodge. Cummins. Put it in your Chevy, GMC or Ford.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Gozar

It wasn't an argument. I said that they aren't great tow vehicles and I stand by it. Can they tow? Yup. Are they great? No.

The fact that you can't see that them being "great" is relative to the person's needs is funny. Your Duramax is far from "great" for a whole LOT of people's towing needs.

Originally Posted by Gozar

I love this. Everyone becomes "the man that towed everything" in these threads.

I grew up with a father who spent 40 years in the trucking industry. I used to spend summers driving a big Cummins diesel Ford L9000 dump truck for his company. I have been in and around trucks since the day I was born. I have towed a 26' enclosed car trailer cross country with a big 3500 diesel Ram. I would say that I have a fair amount of experience. Believe me or not, I really couldn't care less. After driving the trucks that I have driven, hearing you talk about a Duramax being so "great" is as absurd as people saying a 1/2 ton gas truck is to you.

Originally Posted by Gozar

Not a practical argument. You cannot purchase within reason (cost wise) a Kenworth. Also I can out-accelerate a Kenworth so thus I am still correct.

Define "within reason". There are a lot of people who think a ~$50k truck like yours is not within reason. Are you defining it based on what is within reason to YOU? How is it not practical? Is it not practical to YOU?? A good friend of mine has something very similar to this:



That he uses to go to the track. It is as practical to him as yours is to you. Do you think your Duramax tows "great" compared to that? I'd love to see you go brag to him about how great your Duramax tows. See, there's that perspective and relativity thing again.

Originally Posted by Gozar

So, you could have spent $6800 more and had a superior vehicle for towing and basically no impact to daily driving (except a little bit of ride). Your argument doesn't hold. My point is a little more makes a HUGE difference.

My argument holds just fine. Why pay MORE for a vehicle that serves your needs LESS? It depends on what you use it for. Not sure how this simple concept eludes you. I'm guessing that most people would gladly sacrifice a little bit of towing ability a few times a year for a better ride in the truck that they drive every day if that is how they use it.

My truck was just a few $$ short of 50k

I paid $5,500 for my old Yukon that was GREAT at towing what I needed it to tow. Again, Relativity.

You can be out the door at a dealership with a 1/2 ton gas Chev truck with all of the towing package for low $20s. How exactly is $50k a "little more"?

For that matter, I just bought a new truck last year when my towing needs exceeded what the old Yukon was good at handling. I was out the door for $28k with a brand new 2010 2500 HD Z71 GMC that other than being a diesel is as loaded as it gets. I looked at the diesels... and I would have liked to have one. The best deals I could get on the comparable optioned diesels were in the $40-$42k range. Not that the sticker was that much more, but you can get much better deals on the gas trucks. A price increase upwards of 40% (and even more when you consider the extra taxes) is not a "little more".

Originally Posted by Gozar

If you say so. But again, I still chuckle listening to them whine and shutter shifting while a lug on by. I will remember to tell myself they are "towing great!"

A big diesel tows better than a 1/2 ton gas truck. Again, NOBODY said anything to the contrary but your narrow perspective is ridiculous. I'm looking at buying a new GMC Denali HD diesel. Will it tow better than the 2500 HD gas that I have now? Yea, of course it will but that doesn't change the fact that the current truck is a great tow vehicle for my needs. It has all the power you would ever need to tow my car on my trailer. There is no "whining and shuttering" through the mountains. It gets pretty good gas mileage. It has the same brakes as the big trucks. The factory trailer brake controller is as good as I have seen. The only reason I am looking at the Denali is because I use the truck as a DD and the new interiors are fantastic.

Why do you have to have the "mine's better" approach? Yours is what is great to you. That doesn't mean it is what is great for other people's needs. Again, I'm not sure how this simple concept seems to elude you.

I said it before but this time I am actually going to stick to it. It is way too pretty outside to be sitting in here having this dumbass conversation.

Out of curiosity, with your "great" truck available, why did you stoop to the lowly level of towing with the Suburban?

[polarbear]

Originally Posted by Gozar

Mine is a 3/4 ton. Suspension softness isn't the issue. In fact I said that braking and suspension were fine. Going down a flat freeway is also fine. Maybe the issue here is all the people living in flat land never really experience true varied terrain pulling?

I wonder about that too. Out here, if you're towing East or West, you're going from sealevel to 4-5,000 ft. elevation in less than 50 miles. Do that with a gasser, and it feels like half the ponies stayed down in the valley. I say the same thing when I see the "WTH needs a 4X4 in the winter" threads. Just try to make it up my hill after a snowstorm- sealevel to 700 ft. elevation in 14 blocks.

[carlton_fritz]

Originally Posted by Gozar

How ironic that you are correcting Nate and you screw it up. Show me where I said "gas trucks can't tow at all"




Read it again. "Tows great"

While I agree "tows great" is subjective you have to also agree it is relative.

Like I said, tow with my Duramax and then tow the same load with a 1/2 ton gasser and then tell me which one was "great".

Is your Duramax a1/2 ton?

[Noggles]

Originally Posted by Cobra4B

Not sure what point you're trying to make... Sure a diesel will get up to speed a little easier and a dually will tow massive loads, but my truck is also my DD. I don't want to be riding around in a super stiff 3/4 ton truck every day.

Gozar's 2500 rides better than his last 3 1/2 ton gas trucks. The ride is smooth as can be on all terrains. God knows I spent enough time in his vehicles ...

[NB2K]

Originally Posted by carlton_fritz

I didn't say Dodge. Cummins. Put it in your Chevy, GMC or Ford.

Well, my next RV will be Cummins powered. Love the Cat, but they are done.

[carlton_fritz]

Originally Posted by NB2K

Well, my next RV will be Cummins powered. Love the Cat, but they are done.

I would love to see Jeep put a Cummins turbo diesel in the Wrangler.

[C5Nate]

Originally Posted by NB2K

Well, my next RV will be Cummins powered. Love the Cat, but they are done.

Cummins makes a good diesel engine. Just too bad they...

A good friend of mine is a service manager for Dean Machinery. When I asked him if Caterpillar will ever get into the light duty truck market. His quote: "Cats aint all that an a bag of chips, they have their share of issues also"

[LATB]

near 100 dick swinging posts in this thread.