The Everything Tesla/EV Argument Thread

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

SO WHAT???!!! THERE IS NO NEW LAW THAT WOULD MAKE STUPID OR LAZY PEOPLE SMART.

There is not but this doesn't change that stupid people shouldn't be taken advantage of.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The problem is that most people who are not seasoned car buyers (especially young people) are not skilled doing this. It's like a ATP Pro tennis player playing a hobby player in Tennis. Sales people are Pro's in their game and a young, inexperienced buyer is at the hobby player skill level. Not a fair game.

V V V

Originally Posted by Steve_R

SO WHAT???!!! THERE IS NO NEW LAW THAT WOULD MAKE STUPID OR LAZY PEOPLE SMART.

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by LATB

Most car buyers are buying a monthly payment and the dealers know this. It’s not the dealers fault.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You would have absolutely no idea.

It's simply something in my hip pocket. People paying cash sucks. People using Bob's credit union sucks even worse. It's not even about the money. It's about the amount of hassle that it will be to actually get paid. If someone doesn't want to discuss financing, that's perfectly fine. I will negotiate assuming that they are going to do something that is a pain in my ass.

I have a very good idea, and I realize that. I'm not worried about a few hundred or a couple thousand dollars on a large purchase, whether it's a car or a house. It's all about perspective with me, not trying to stick it to the seller.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I have a very good idea, and I realize that. I'm not worried about a few hundred or a couple thousand dollars on a large purchase, whether it's a car or a house. It's all about perspective with me, not trying to stick it to the seller.

Fair enough. Now a question for you...

What do you believe that you are gaining by not discussing how you're going to pay?

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

There is not but this doesn't change that stupid people shouldn't be taken advantage of.

I disagree. Life lessons are very valuable. They can be expensive too. It depends on what level of education the stupid person is looking to obtain.

Handicapped people should not be taken advantage of. Children should not be taken advantage of. The elderly should not be taken advantage of. Idiots however, should be taken full advantage of and mocked afterward.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Agreed.





I have a very good idea, and I realize that. I'm not worried about a few hundred or a couple thousand dollars on a large purchase, whether it's a car or a house. It's all about perspective with me, not trying to stick it to the seller.

The reason why they try to push you into using their financing, in buying the extended warranty and to trade in your car is because they get commission for financing, buying extended warranty and they will make a killing on your trade in, a lot more than the $2000 trade in credit that they give you.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

There is not but this doesn't change that stupid people shouldn't be taken advantage of.

Great.

The most ridiculous part of your argument is that you think that the government coming in and essentially controlling all forms of advertising and taking control of private search engines (because that's all Autotrader is), is somehow going to change that.

Regulating search engines to save you time is not the job of the government. Period.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The reason why they try to push you into using their financing, in buying the extended warranty and to trade in your car is because they get commission for financing, buying extended warranty and they will make a killing on your trade in, a lot more than the $2000 trade in credit that they give you.

Who in the f**k is offering a flat $2000 on all trades?

You have absolutely zero clue how financing works.

As for warranties, none of it is in the fine print. You either want it, or you don't. Every electronics store, Amazon, hell, even Wal-Mart sells warranties. Wake the f**k up. It's not misleading to try to sell someone a warranty when you flat out tell them you want to sell them a warranty.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Aerovette

I disagree. Life lessons are very valuable. They can be expensive too. It depends on what level of education the stupid person is looking to obtain.

Handicapped people should not be taken advantage of. Children should not be taken advantage of. The elderly should not be taken advantage of. Idiots however, should be taken full advantage of and mocked afterward.

I agree. It’s why so many Americans are puzzes. Everything is someone else’s fault.

Watch Judge Judy. The idiots will say “your honor it was an accident”.
JJ: “yes it was but the accident was your fault and you have to pay”
Idiot: “why I have to pay for an accident?”

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The reason why they try to push you into using their financing, in buying the extended warranty and to trade in your car is because they get commission for financing, buying extended warranty and they will make a killing on your trade in, a lot more than the $2000 trade in credit that they give you.

So you don’t think that the dealer should make money on your trade?

[Steve_R]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

The reason why they try to push you into using their financing, in buying the extended warranty and to trade in your car is because they get commission for financing, buying extended warranty and they will make a killing on your trade in, a lot more than the $2000 trade in credit that they give you.

Here, read this very carefully, several times if necessary until you understand it: Car dealers are in business to make a profit. If they make no profit they will go out of business. Everything is negotiable. If you sign a contract without reading it you're not smart enough to even drive, let alone buy, a car.

I never buy the extended warranty, but that's a different discussion.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by LATB

So you don’t think that the dealer should make money on your trade?

My favorite are the people who roll in with KBB pointing at the "excellent retail" price thinking that's what their beat up shitbox is worth.

While also trying to claim that whatever it is they want to buy is worth less than book trade.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I never buy the extended warranty, but that's a different discussion.

It's not always a bad deal.

As someone who sells them, I've actually bought more than 1. If you actually know how to buy it (no, not paying whatever the dealer wants for it), it can be very beneficial. But yes, that's a different discussion.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Here, read this very carefully, several times if necessary until you understand it: Car dealers are in business to make a profit. If they make no profit they will go out of business. Everything is negotiable. If you sign a contract without reading it you're not smart enough to even drive, let alone buy, a car.

I never buy the extended warranty, but that's a different discussion.

Wait until he finds out that sales at the end of the month/quarter/year look very different than the beginning of the month/quarter/year.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Great.

The most ridiculous part of your argument is that you think that the government coming in and essentially controlling all forms of advertising and taking control of private search engines (because that's all Autotrader is), is somehow going to change that.

Regulating search engines to save you time is not the job of the government. Period.

Standardization is applied to a lot of things. That's not an infringement on the market.

[Aerovette]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

It's not always a bad deal.

As someone who sells them, I've actually bought more than 1. If you actually know how to buy it (no, not paying whatever the dealer wants for it), it can be very beneficial. But yes, that's a different discussion.

I don't buy extended warranties because I am only marginally informed about them. I'm a warranty idiot that does not want to be taken advantage of. The ones I have read always lead me to a solid "no thank you" because of the hundreds of ways they are not required to cover a repair.

The key here is that I don't get taken advantage of because I don't know enough about them to make an informed decision. That same logic should be applied to a vehicle purchase.

Get help with a purchase if you are dumb like me.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

So you don’t think that the dealer should make money on your trade?

Not what I'm saying. However, they shouldn't punish you for not having a trade.
They even have rules on the value of the trade. They won't give you a $2000 trade in credit if you trade in a $500 car. There are usually minimum trade in value requirements to give you the trade in credit.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

Here, read this very carefully, several times if necessary until you understand it: Car dealers are in business to make a profit. If they make no profit they will go out of business. Everything is negotiable. If you sign a contract without reading it you're not smart enough to even drive, let alone buy, a car.

I never buy the extended warranty, but that's a different discussion.

I'm all for dealers making profit but not by misleading consumers.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

You would have absolutely no idea.

It's simply something in my hip pocket. People paying cash sucks. People using Bob's credit union sucks even worse. It's not even about the money. It's about the amount of hassle that it will be to actually get paid. If someone doesn't want to discuss financing, that's perfectly fine. I will negotiate assuming that they are going to do something that is a pain in my ass.

It's a safe assumption that 99% of the people buying a car have absolutely no clue how much shit a dealer has to do AFTER the sale to actually get paid, pay taxes, deal with titles, etc. The harder you're going to make that on me, the less willing I am to give a better deal.

I'm not a robot. If I'm feeling nice, you may get a better deal. If you're respectful and act like a decent human being, I am way more likely to give the best deal possible. If you're a dick, I'm going to get every dollar I can, and not give a shit if you walk out the door.

I get that a cash buyer makes the F&I back end most probably a wash, unless the F&I guy can toss in some mop-n-glo, extended warranty, or other add ons.. I don't understand how you feel that a buyer who simply writes you a check, or gives you a cashier's check, or does a wire transfer, makes it hard for you to get paid. You get your money pretty much instantly, surely faster and with less actual hassle and paperwork than making a courtesy delivery, then trying to collect from whoever the lender is.

You're saying, hey, I can obfuscate the deal, lower the price a bit, if I know I'll get a spiff from the financing on the back end. Same with a trade. I'll show you a lower price for the new car, and offset that with a coordinating lower credit for the trade. It's all just sleight of hand.

The simplest, most straightforward transaction is a guy who walks in with a checkbook. You agree on what you want for the car, he writes a check, and that's it. Your floor plan carrying costs are done, and you move on to the next sale.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I'm all for dealers making profit but not by misleading consumers.

And in your world, somehow telling you every little detail of the deal is "misleading"...

You keep confusing being lazy and uninformed with being MISLED. You want absolutely no responsibility for your own actions and decisions.