Choose your color scheme:
The Vette Barn  
 
Go Back   The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Off Topic
Register Photo Albums Today's Posts Search Experience

Off Topic Off Topic - General non-Corvette related discussion.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-16-2020, 12:20pm   #1021
The_Dude
Barn Stall Owner #113
Bantayan Kids '14
Points: 51,958, Level: 100
Activity: 31.3%
 
The_Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Here to make friends
Posts: 85,218
Thanks: 73,489
Thanked 17,030 Times in 6,948 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $306898
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerovette View Post
Our own government used our airports to track disease spread, why on earth would we think China wouldn't?

https://www.businessinsider.com/mili...-to-st-louis-1

On September 20, 1950, a US Navy ship just off the coast of San Francisco used a giant hose to spray a cloud of microbes into the air and into the city's famous fog. The military was testing how a biological weapon attack would affect the 800,000 residents of the city.
The people of San Francisco had no idea.
The Navy continued the tests for seven days, potentially causing at least one death. It was one of the first large-scale biological weapon trials that would be conducted under a "germ warfare testing program" that went on for 20 years, from 1949 to 1969. The goal "was to deter [the use of biological weapons] against the United States and its allies and to retaliate if deterrence failed," the government explained later. "Fundamental to the development of a deterrent strategy was the need for a thorough study and analysis of our vulnerability to overt and covert attack."
Of the 239 known tests in that program, San Francisco was notable for two reasons, according to Dr. Leonard Cole, who documented the episode in his book "Clouds of Secrecy: The Army's Germ Warfare Tests Over Populated Areas."
Cole, now the director of the Terror Medicine and Security Program at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, tells Business Insider that this incident was "notable: first, because it was really early in the program ... but also because of the extraordinary coincidence that took place at Stanford Hospital, beginning days after the Army's tests had taken place."
Hospital staff were so shocked at the appearance of a patient infected with a bacteria, Serratia marcescens, that had never been found in the hospital and was rare in the area, that they published an article about it in a medical journal. The patient, Edward Nevin, died after the infection spread to his heart.
Bacillus subtilis, then known as Bacillus globigii, was one pathogen that was used in testing. WMrapids/Wikimedia Commons
S. marcescens was one of the two types of bacteria the Navy ship had sprayed over the Bay Area.
It wasn't until the 1970s that Americans, as Cole wrote in the book, "learned that for decades they had been serving as experimental animals for agencies of their government."
San Francisco wasn't the first or the last experiment on citizens who hadn't given informed consent.
Other experiments involved testing mind-altering drugs on unsuspecting citizens. In one shocking, well-known incident, government researchers studied the effects of syphilis on black Americans without informing the men that they had the disease — they were told they had "bad blood." Researchers withheld treatment after it became available so they could continue studying the illness, despite the devastating and life-threatening implications of doing so for the men and their families.
But it was the germ warfare tests that Cole focused on.
"All these other tests, while terrible, they affected people counted in the hundreds at most," he says. "But when you talk about exposing millions of people to potential harm, by spreading around certain chemicals or biological agents, the quantitative effect of that is just unbelievable."
"Every one of the [biological and chemical] agents the Army used had been challenged" by medical reports, he says, despite the Army's contention in public hearings that they'd selected "harmless simulants" of biological weapons.
"They're all considered pathogens now," Cole says.
Here are some of the other difficult-to-believe germ warfare experiments that occurred during this dark chapter in US history. These tests were documented in Cole's book and verified by Business Insider using congressional reports and archived news articles.
From Minneapolis to St. Louis
A C-119 Flying Boxcar, one type of plane used to release chemicals. Official USAF photo
The military tested how a biological or chemical weapon would spread throughout the country by spraying bacteria as well as various chemical powders — including an especially controversial one called zinc cadmium sulfide. Low flying airplanes would take off, sometimes near the Canadian border, "and they would fly down through the Midwest," dropping their payloads over cities, says Cole.
These sprays were tested on the ground too, with machines that would release clouds from city rooftops or intersections to see how they spread.
In the book, Cole cites military reports that documented various Minneapolis tests, including one where chemicals spread through a school. The clouds were clearly visible.
To prevent suspicion, the military pretended that they were testing a way to mask the whole city in order to protect it. They told city officials that "the tests involved efforts to measure ability to lay smoke screens about the city" to "hide" it in case of nuclear attack, according to Cole's account.
The potential toxicity of that controversial compound zinc cadmium sulfide is debated. One component, cadmium, is highly toxic and can cause cancer. Some reports suggest a possibility that the zinc cadmium sulfide could perhaps degrade into cadmium, but a 1997 report from the National Research Council concluded that the Army's secret tests "did not expose residents of the United States and Canada to chemical levels considered harmful." However, the same report noted that research on the chemical used was sparse, mostly based on very limited animal studies.
These air tests were conducted around the country as part of Operation Large Area Coverage.
"There was evidence that the powder after it was released would be then located a day or two later as far away as 1,200 miles," Cole says. "There was a sense that you could really blanket the country with a similar agent."
St. Louis. Joe Raedle/Getty Images
City tests were conducted in St. Louis, too.
In 2012, Lisa Martino-Taylor, a sociology professor at St. Louis Community College-Meramec, released a report theorizing that the army's experiments could be connected to cancer rates in a low-income, mostly black neighborhood in the city where zinc cadmium sulfide had been tested. She said she was concerned that there could have been a radioactive component to some testing, though she did not have direct evidence for that possibility.
Her report, however, prompted both senators from Missouri to write to the Army secretary, "demanding answers," the Associated Press noted at the time.
While Martino-Taylor's suggestion remains purely hypothetical, "the human dimension is never mentioned" in most Army documents, Cole writes in the book. Instead there's just a discussion of how well the particulates spread and what they learned about the possibility of biological attacks from them.
1966: "A Study of the Vulnerability of Subway Passengers in New York City to Covert Attack with Biological Agents"
The Times Square subway station during rush hour. Stephen Chernin/Getty Images
The New York subway system experiments are among the most shocking in terms of the numbers of people exposed, according to Cole.
In a field test called "A Study of the Vulnerability of Subway Passengers in New York City to Covert Attack with Biological Agents," military officials tried to see how easy it would be to unleash biological weapons using the New York City subway. They would break light bulbs full of bacteria on the tracks to see how they spread through the city.
"If you can get trillions of bacteria into a light bulb and throw it on the track as a train pulls into a station, they'll get pulled through the air as the train leaves," Cole says, travelling through the tunnels and into different stations.
Clouds would engulf people as trains pulled away, but documents say that they "brushed their clothing, looked up at the grating apron and walked on." No one was concerned.
In a 1995 Newsday story, reporter Dennis Duggan contacted retired Army scientist Charles Senseney, who had testified about the experiments to a Senate subcommittee in 1975. In his testimony, he explained that one light bulb full of bacteria dropped at 14th Street easily spread the bacteria up to at least 58th Street.
But he declined to reveal anything to the Newsday reporter. "I don't want to get near this," Senseney said to Duggan. "I [testified], because I was told I had to by the people at the Department of Defense ... I better get off the phone."
Experiments continued in New York for six days using Bacillus subtilis, then known as Bacillus globigii, and S. marcescens.
A paper from the National Academy of Sciences analyzing military experiments notes that B. globigii is "now considered a pathogen" and is often a cause of food poisoning. "Infections are rarely known to be fatal," the report said — though fatal cases have occurred.
Particularly controversial tests
A US Navy vessel at Norfolk Supply Center, the location of a particularly controversial experiment. U.S. Navy photo by Bill Campbell
Another controversial experiment described in Cole's book involved a test at the Norfolk Naval Supply Center. The experimenters packed crates with fungal spores to see how they would affect the people unpacking those crates.
Cole's book notes that "portions of a report about an army test in 1951 involving Aspergillus fumigatus ... indicate that the army intentionally exposed a disproportionate number of black people to the organism." Most of the employees at the supply center were black.
In the military reports cited by Cole, researchers claim they are preparing for an attack that might target black citizens. He quotes from a section that reads: "Since Negroes are more susceptible to coccidioides than are whites, this fungus disease was simulated."
When these experiments were first revealed in 1980, the racial aspect of these tests engendered controversy and skepticism about the "army's interest in the public welfare," according to Cole.
Tests revealed by an unexpected source
An unclassified report on the Army's germ warfare activities. U.S. Army Activity in the U.S. Biological Warfare Programs
Many of these experiments on the American public were first investigated by what we would consider questionable sources.
One 1979 Washington Post news story discusses open air experiments in the Tampa Bay area involving the release of pertussis, or whooping cough, in 1955. State records show that whooping cough cases in Florida spiked from 339 (one death) in 1954 to 1,080 (12 deaths) in 1955, according to that story.
But it's hard to trace how accurate the information about the whooping cough release is: The only documentation goes back to an investigation by the Church of Scientology.
The Church of Scientology formed a group called American Citizens for Honesty in Government that spent a significant amount of time investigating controversial experiments run by the Army and CIA, according to the Post. Through FOIA requests they uncovered a number of documents related to these experiments in the late 1970s.
Cole understands why some people are skeptical of those reports. "I certainly am not a member and I think a lot of what they do is quackery," he says, but "in this case, I have no reason to believe any of this isn't real."
Many of the documents Scientologists made public were the same documents he'd received doing his own research, redacted in the same places.
Perhaps the hardest question is how much information is still missing.
As Cole writes in the book:
Many details about the army's tests over populated areas remain secret. Most of the test reports are still classified or cannot be located, although a few of the earlier ones have become available in response to Freedom of Information Act requests and in conjunction with the Nevin case. Among those available, sections have been blocked out and pages are missing.
What we learned
The "Cold War mentality" was one of persistent fear. via blog.uprinting.com
Military officials were called to testify before Congress in 1977 after information about these biological warfare experiments was revealed.
At the time, those officials said that determining just how vulnerable the US was to a biological attack "required extensive research and development to determine precisely our vulnerability, the efficacy of our protective measures, and the tactical and strategic capability of various delivery systems and agents," according to a record of that testimony quoted in "Clouds of Secrecy."
Cole too says it's hard to see these events now from the perspective that people had then.
There was "a different mindset in the country then ... [a] Cold War mentality," he says. But, he argues, that doesn't justify glossing over the already known potential danger of the agents used.
At the same time, part of what the military knows about how clouds of chemicals spread comes from these experiments. Cole says that knowledge gleaned from these biological warfare testing programs helped inform the US reaction when reports came in on the potential use of chemical weapons in the first Gulf War.
So what's happening now?
We now have different fears as a society. Jason Reed/Reuters
Cole says that the obvious question that's on people's minds is what's happening now. After all, if secret tests could occur then, what prevents them from continuing? Are they, in fact, still going on?
He doesn't think it's likely.
"I would never swear on your life or my life that nothing illegitimate is happening, but based on what I do know, I don't have any sense that there's illicit activity now that would involve risking exposure to tons of people, as happened in the 50s and 60s," he says.
Biological agents are still studied and tested, but informed consent is more widely appreciated now. There's also less of a Cold War mentality that would be used to justify this research.
Still, more recent reports show that experiments in this area went on longer than we thought.
In 2001, a New York Times report revealed projects testing biological weapons that began under the Clinton administration and continued under the second Bush administration. A 1972 treaty theoretically prohibited developing biological weapons, but this program justified it with the argument that new weapons needed to be studied in order to develop adequate defenses.
And the "War on Terror" raises other concerns, according to Cole.
After the 2001 anthrax attacks, funding for bioterrorism research spiked by $1.5 billion. Then in 2004, Congress approved another $5.6 billion bioterror research project.
These projects are meant to protect society from the dangers of biological agents, but they may have an unintended consequence, Cole says.
"Thousands and thousands of people became familiar with pathogens that they were not familiar with before," he says. "You now have many more people that could potentially do bad with these organisms, and it only takes one person."
Do you really think any of us read all of that?
The_Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to The_Dude For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 12:23pm   #1022
Mike Mercury
Chief Meat Gazer
Charter Member
Barn Stall Owner #98
Barn Raising II,III,IV
Points: 159,207, Level: 100
Activity: 19.1%
 
Mike Mercury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 51,072
Thanks: 23,484
Thanked 33,870 Times in 12,342 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $5135124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dude View Post
Do you really think any of us read all of that?

since the first three words weren't

"pull my finger"... I moved on.
Mike Mercury is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Mike Mercury For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 12:37pm   #1023
C3C7NIC
Barn Stall Owner #102
Points: 32,014, Level: 100
Activity: 18.3%
 
C3C7NIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 15,475
Thanks: 8,966
Thanked 14,255 Times in 4,364 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $23243
Default

Just got this update this am about our protocols.


Interesting.

C3C7NIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 12:39pm   #1024
snide
Barn Raising II,III
NCM Supporter '13
Bantayan Kids '17
Points: 216,817, Level: 100
Activity: 53.6%
 
snide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: I could never live there.
Posts: 339,934
Thanks: 200,281
Thanked 30,508 Times in 14,293 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $108033784
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C3C7NIC View Post
Just got this update this am about our protocols.


Interesting.

Link to your email box isn't terribly helpful.
snide is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to snide For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 1:07pm   #1025
Mick
A Real Barner
Points: 17,980, Level: 92
Activity: 34.9%
 
Mick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 7,541
Thanks: 1,957
Thanked 7,068 Times in 3,124 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $12721
Default

I have noticed that in the last day or so, the news has stopped the "hospitals and emergency rooms are completely overwhelmed" panic stories. I guess all those home videos of empty parking lots and waiting rooms at hospitals all over the country, including NYC, are making a difference.
Mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 1:10pm   #1026
BOTY
A Real Barner
Points: 29,117, Level: 100
Activity: 2.1%
 
BOTY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: IL
Posts: 25,353
Thanks: 15,874
Thanked 13,170 Times in 6,028 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $15019343
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I have noticed that in the last day or so, the news has stopped the "hospitals and emergency rooms are completely overwhelmed" panic stories. I guess all those home videos of empty parking lots and waiting rooms at hospitals all over the country, including NYC, are making a difference.
I did notice that too.
BOTY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 1:17pm   #1027
C3C7NIC
Barn Stall Owner #102
Points: 32,014, Level: 100
Activity: 18.3%
 
C3C7NIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 15,475
Thanks: 8,966
Thanked 14,255 Times in 4,364 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $23243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snide View Post
Link to your email box isn't terribly helpful.
WTH? I can see it on my end.


Let me try again.

Let me know if this one is clear


Click image for larger version

Name:	hydroxssm.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	129.6 KB
ID:	42144
C3C7NIC is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to C3C7NIC For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 1:18pm   #1028
C3C7NIC
Barn Stall Owner #102
Points: 32,014, Level: 100
Activity: 18.3%
 
C3C7NIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 15,475
Thanks: 8,966
Thanked 14,255 Times in 4,364 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $23243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raazor View Post
accidentally on purpose
And what would be the repercussions if this is proven?

C3C7NIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 1:22pm   #1029
Steve_R
A Real Barner
Points: 81,482, Level: 100
Activity: 69.8%
 
Steve_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: On the beach
Posts: 32,331
Thanks: 17,216
Thanked 33,466 Times in 11,751 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1025333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C3C7NIC View Post
And what would be the repercussions if this is proven?

Stern talk. Nothing more. The trade imbalance with China ensures we won't do more than that.
Steve_R is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Steve_R For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 1:24pm   #1030
Steve_R
A Real Barner
Points: 81,482, Level: 100
Activity: 69.8%
 
Steve_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: On the beach
Posts: 32,331
Thanks: 17,216
Thanked 33,466 Times in 11,751 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1025333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I have noticed that in the last day or so, the news has stopped the "hospitals and emergency rooms are completely overwhelmed" panic stories. I guess all those home videos of empty parking lots and waiting rooms at hospitals all over the country, including NYC, are making a difference.
Thousands of physicians, nurses, PAs and other medical staff getting laid off for lack of work doesn't support that scare mongering story either.
Steve_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 1:25pm   #1031
Aerovette
Chief Electrician
Barn Stall Owner #7734

Bantayan Kids '15
Points: 106,583, Level: 100
Activity: 99.0%
 
Aerovette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The corner of Cease Rd. and Desist St.
Posts: 44,472
Thanks: 17,053
Thanked 33,690 Times in 13,647 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $107478
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dude View Post
Do you really think any of us read all of that?
If it had an [] I Agree at the bottom, you'd all "say" you did.
Aerovette is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Aerovette For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 1:25pm   #1032
JetMechZ16
A Real Barner
Points: 46,956, Level: 100
Activity: 5.4%
 
JetMechZ16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SouthEast Tn.
Posts: 6,999
Thanks: 1,665
Thanked 9,866 Times in 3,759 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $856744
Default

I think we will see some manufacturing come back to this country when this is done.
JetMechZ16 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JetMechZ16 For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 1:26pm   #1033
Aerovette
Chief Electrician
Barn Stall Owner #7734

Bantayan Kids '15
Points: 106,583, Level: 100
Activity: 99.0%
 
Aerovette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The corner of Cease Rd. and Desist St.
Posts: 44,472
Thanks: 17,053
Thanked 33,690 Times in 13,647 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $107478
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C3C7NIC View Post
And what would be the repercussions if this is proven?

ZERO and they already know this. For the life of me I cannot figure out why, as a country, we suck Saudi and Chinese dick like horny 17 year old cheerleaders.
Aerovette is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aerovette For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 1:28pm   #1034
The_Dude
Barn Stall Owner #113
Bantayan Kids '14
Points: 51,958, Level: 100
Activity: 31.3%
 
The_Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Here to make friends
Posts: 85,218
Thanks: 73,489
Thanked 17,030 Times in 6,948 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $306898
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerovette View Post
ZERO and they already know this. For the life of me I cannot figure out why, as a country, we suck Saudi and Chinese dick like horny 17 year old cheerleaders.
oil and cheap stuff.
The_Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to The_Dude For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 1:29pm   #1035
Cybercowboy
2016 Election Expert
Barn Stall Owner #64
Points: 50,697, Level: 100
Activity: 34.6%
 
Cybercowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Joplin, MO
Posts: 18,039
Thanks: 999
Thanked 10,155 Times in 4,727 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $11380138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C3C7NIC View Post
WTH? I can see it on my end.


Let me try again.

Let me know if this one is clear


Attachment 42144
Yeah, I noticed that they are just using HCQ, not the HCQ/z-pack/zinc sulfate cocktail. It's like they don't want it to work. They also seem to be just trying to treat the worst cases instead of earlier. I'm sure there's some point where it wouldn't help much, but an earlier point where it would be essentially a cure. I've never seen such absolute push back on a potential off-label drug. Noted.
Cybercowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 1:29pm   #1036
Steve_R
A Real Barner
Points: 81,482, Level: 100
Activity: 69.8%
 
Steve_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: On the beach
Posts: 32,331
Thanks: 17,216
Thanked 33,466 Times in 11,751 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1025333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMechZ16 View Post
I think we will see some manufacturing come back to this country when this is done.
Let's hope so, but it won't happen quickly and it won't be cheap. The reasons lots of manufacturing was moved to China haven't gone away either and won't go away. Unless the general public is willing to pay more for stuff made here it won't ever happen.
Steve_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 1:29pm   #1037
z06psi
Barn Stall Owner #∞
Points: 25,038, Level: 100
Activity: 0.4%
 
z06psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: GFY and STFU'ville
Posts: 9,020
Thanks: 1,204
Thanked 13,711 Times in 5,285 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $34677
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C3C7NIC View Post
WTH? I can see it on my end.


Let me try again.

Let me know if this one is clear


Attachment 42144
Nope, keep trying.
z06psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 1:29pm   #1038
Aerovette
Chief Electrician
Barn Stall Owner #7734

Bantayan Kids '15
Points: 106,583, Level: 100
Activity: 99.0%
 
Aerovette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The corner of Cease Rd. and Desist St.
Posts: 44,472
Thanks: 17,053
Thanked 33,690 Times in 13,647 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $107478
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dude View Post
oil and cheap stuff.
We have oil and we made cheap stuff long before we bought it from China.
Aerovette is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Aerovette For This Useful Post:
Old 04-16-2020, 1:31pm   #1039
Steve_R
A Real Barner
Points: 81,482, Level: 100
Activity: 69.8%
 
Steve_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: On the beach
Posts: 32,331
Thanks: 17,216
Thanked 33,466 Times in 11,751 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $1025333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerovette View Post
We have oil and we made cheap stuff long before we bought it from China.
Cheap stuff made here was before unions and OSHA, neither of which are going away.
Steve_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2020, 1:34pm   #1040
Aerovette
Chief Electrician
Barn Stall Owner #7734

Bantayan Kids '15
Points: 106,583, Level: 100
Activity: 99.0%
 
Aerovette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The corner of Cease Rd. and Desist St.
Posts: 44,472
Thanks: 17,053
Thanked 33,690 Times in 13,647 Posts
Gameroom Barn Bucks: $107478
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R View Post
Cheap stuff made here was before unions and OSHA, neither of which are going away.
Depends on where the factory is. There are states that are not so union friendly.

Delaware.
Illinois.
Indiana.
Kentucky.
Missouri.
New Hampshire.
New Mexico.
West Virginia.
Aerovette is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aerovette For This Useful Post:
Reply

The Vette Barn > Off Topic/Babes/Other > Off Topic



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:25am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 - 2024 The Vette Barn


Support the Barn:
 
Download the Mobile App;
 
Follow us on Facebook:

Become a Stall Owner

 

Apple iOS App        Google Android App

 

Visit our Facebook page