Was it an attack on gays

[Kevin_73]

Originally Posted by Cybercowboy

You want speculation? I'll give you speculation.

The shooter Omar was closet gay, his father knew though and hated that his son was gay, and probably made snide comments to him all the time. Omar would rail on gays to his coworkers at the security firm he worked for. This is classic self-hating behavior.

He had been radicalized both at his local mosque, online, and during his trips to Saudi Arabia. It pissed him off to be on the FBI's radar, as they had the audacity to actually follow up on the fact that he claimed to a number of people to be a member of various terrorist organizations.

He liked going to Pulse, but he hated himself for it. He'd go there, and do one of three things. Sit quietly and get a good buzz, get rip-roaring drunk and belligerent, or hit on dudes and hook up occasionally. Each time he went he probably thought to himself "I could kill all these infidels, and they deserve it." He had became comfortable going there, so comfortable he had his nominal wife drive him there on occasion.

Now, either because his handlers ordered him to or he just decided it was time for his jihad, he needed to pick a target. He knew that he got one shot at this, as getting away alive and not getting caught later was so slim as to be near impossible. We all know that for some time now the Islamic nutjobs have been fantasizing about a hit on Disney. He probably thought he could do it, his handlers probably even asked him to scope it out. And he realized it would be hard to get more than a handful of kills before their security nailed him. There are hundreds of hidden entrances/tunnels/cameras there. Just getting on the property with weapons would be extremely difficult.

But Pulse. Pulse solved all those issues plus it had the added psychological benefit of salving his inner demons over being bi-sexual. He'd prove to his dad that his son was a real man, he'd show those co-workers that he wasn't just bluffing, he'd thumb his nose at the FBI (the idiots!), and he'd probably get some personal satisfaction from killing a few people he knew and didn't like for whatever reason.

He knew the security arrangement there. One armed off-duty cop, a few unarmed bouncers, that's it. Take out the cop, take out the bouncers, and the only limitation on how many he can kill is whether he can do magazine changes quickly enough. But he'd already had ample training for that in Saudi Arabia or even here in the states.

So Pulse it was.

It is still unclear whether or not he had "handlers" or contacts within organized terror groups, but I think it's pretty clear that he was radicalized. It sounds like self loathing about his own homosexuality probably played a huge role in his target selection as well.

[DAB]

"radicalized"

the problem with this theory is that it makes them all to be some sort of kook.

listening to Rush yesterday, he mentioned Andrew McCarthy, who prosecuted some muslim in NYC years ago. before trial, McCarthy decided he wanted to find out what made this guy tick. so he got an English version of the koran, read it, understood it, and discovered that everything the guy believed and advocated came right out of the koran. he wasn't nuts, he was a very committed muslim, doing exactly what the koran commanded him to do.

all these muslims have been taught this same line of thinking and belief at the various mosques/schools by their imans.

they aren't kooks, they don't need mental health treatment, they are seriously dedicated believers who will not be talked out of their beliefs. and they will die for them.

[Mike Mercury]

Originally Posted by DAB

everything the guy believed and advocated came right out of the koran. he wasn't nuts, he was a very committed muslim, doing exactly what the koran commanded him to do.

all this is forgiven though... as long as enough of them will cast votes in a certain direction.

[Dan Dlabay]

I believe it was for 2 reasons. A attack on America and a attack on gays. The scum that did this pledged allegiance to ISSI and that scum hates both America and gays.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by DAB

crowded mall on the day after Thanksgiving.

moderate sized church on a busy sunday.

any place with a line waiting to get thru security (airport, sporting event).

I'll give you the sporting event but I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot more people armed at the other 2 than at a gay club.

There's no way in hell I would be unarmed at a mall on black friday.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I'll give you the sporting event but I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot more people armed at the other 2 than at a gay club.

There's no way in hell I would be unarmed at a mall on black friday.

larger churches have likely thought thru this kind of scenario, and have taken actions to prevent or mitigate it. but the areas outside of checkpoints, where you know you have a mess of unarmed people (they are all waiting to successfully pass thru the checkpoint), all jammed together, make an excellent target that is hard to miss.

mid-size busy mall, might have 3 guys with flashlights and radios, but not guns, mostly there to discourage shoplifting.

you won't see me at a 'pretend gun free zone' if i have any say over the matter. very dangerous places.

anyone can pull up the concealed carry permit laws for any state, and they will tell you quite clearly what all the 'gun free' places are.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

I think his first priority was to kill and terrorize Americans. He chose that particular venue because it was familiar. The fact that he had shame over being gay, as mentioned here, made it all that much easier to carry it out at that particular place.

[DAB]

whether or not the killer was a homosexual is irrelevant. he chose that locale because he knew, after some scouting, that it was a dark, loud, crowded place on a saturday night, and that no one there (except him) would have a firearm to stop him.

he believed that his koran taught him to do this to gain glory before allah. there are thousands more with the same beliefs.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by DAB

mid-size busy mall, might have 3 guys with flashlights and radios, but not guns, mostly there to discourage shoplifting.

I wasn't talking about "official" security.

I bet there are a LOT of armed mofos at the malls on black Friday (depending on what part of the country you are in).

At an outdoor area such as waiting to get in a sporting event, a crowd could disperse much more quickly.

I really think that to kill as many people as possible, it's pretty hard to top a crowded gay bar at night.

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by DAB

whether or not the killer was a homosexual is irrelevant. he chose that locale because he knew, after some scouting, that it was a dark, loud, crowded place on a saturday night, and that no one there (except him) would have a firearm to stop him.

he believed that his koran taught him to do this to gain glory before allah. there are thousands more with the same beliefs.

I don't think his sexual orientation has any relevance, in terms of wanting to killing Americans. He was radicalized in a way that he was set on killing Americans. I don't think it even mattered which Americans he killed, as long as it was as many as possible.

Where I think his sexual orientation does have relevance is regarding him being familiar with that particular venue and recognizing it as a soft target.

Put it this way, if he wasn't a gay male familiar with that particular venue, he may have chosen a church or a shopping mall instead. He chose the venue because he was familiar with it and he was familiar with it because he was a gay or bisexual male looking to date/hookup. So, him being gay/bisexual is not completely irrelevant, in terms of it putting him in a position in which he was familiar with this particular place.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

I wasn't talking about "official" security.

I bet there are a LOT of armed mofos at the malls on black Friday (depending on what part of the country you are in).

At an outdoor area such as waiting to get in a sporting event, a crowd could disperse much more quickly.

I really think that to kill as many people as possible, it's pretty hard to top a crowded gay bar at night.

hopefully, you are right and we'll never have to find out.

but i'm still avoiding "pretend gun free zones".

[DAB]

Originally Posted by NEED-A-VETTE

I don't think his sexual orientation has any relevance, in terms of wanting to killing Americans. He was radicalized in a way that he was set on killing Americans. I don't think it even mattered which Americans he killed, as long as it was as many as possible.

Where I think his sexual orientation does have relevance is regarding him being familiar with that particular venue and recognizing it as a soft target.

Put it this way, if he wasn't a gay male familiar with that particular venue, he may have chosen a church or a shopping mall instead. He chose the venue because he was familiar with it and he was familiar with it because he was a gay or bisexual male looking to date/hookup. So, him being gay/bisexual is not completely irrelevant, in terms of it putting him in a position in which he was familiar with this particular place.

i have read that these imans who advocate such jihad have told their charges that before their 'big day', they are allowed one last 'fling' so to speak. they can go out drinking, carousing, hang out in otherwise 'unclean' places. i recall that several of the 9-11 killers were seen at bars and clubs in the days before.

a devout muslim does not drink and carouse. as for him hanging out at that bar, for all we know, he was faking it and trying to blend in and be accepted as part of the normal crowd.

[SQUIRMIN VERMIN 84]

Asswipe shooter was a democrat, he's nuts anyway...

Orlando Shooter Was a Democrat? : snopes.com

[NEED-A-VETTE]

Originally Posted by DAB

i have read that these imans who advocate such jihad have told their charges that before their 'big day', they are allowed one last 'fling' so to speak. they can go out drinking, carousing, hang out in otherwise 'unclean' places. i recall that several of the 9-11 killers were seen at bars and clubs in the days before.

a devout muslim does not drink and carouse. as for him hanging out at that bar, for all we know, he was faking it and trying to blend in and be accepted as part of the normal crowd.

I would accept that he was faking it, had stories not come out about him asking men out (for dates) from his workplace. It just seems very odd to have the behaviors carry over into his workplace, if all he was doing at the gay club was scouting it out.


Generally, the simplest answer is the correct answer. I think he was a closet gay or bisexual man. Do I think this was his sole motivation? No. I think he just wanted to kill Americans and took advantage of what was (to him) a familiar target that he recognized as being very unprotected.

Also, having grown up in the Detroit area in proximity to Dearborn, I've seen many "devout" Muslim men behave very poorly, with regard to the teachings of Islam. Osama bin laden had porn on his computer, for crying out loud. That doesn't seem to diminish these radical's need to kill westerners.

[Jeff '79]

Originally Posted by NEED-A-VETTE

I would accept that he was faking it, had stories not come out about him asking men out (for dates) from his workplace. It just seems very odd to have the behaviors carry over into his workplace, if all he was doing at the gay club was scouting it out.

Generally, the simplest answer is the correct answer. I think he was a closet gay or bisexual man. Do I think this was his sole motivation? No. I think he just wanted to kill Americans and took advantage of what was (to him) a familiar target that he recognized as being very unprotected.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by Waco

That would be any club/bar/restaurant in FL that makes more than half their sales from alcohol.

I've been to a bar about 3 times in my life. Went to play pool. Didn't drink.

[mrvette]

Originally Posted by NEED-A-VETTE

I would accept that he was faking it, had stories not come out about him asking men out (for dates) from his workplace. It just seems very odd to have the behaviors carry over into his workplace, if all he was doing at the gay club was scouting it out.


Generally, the simplest answer is the correct answer. I think he was a closet gay or bisexual man. Do I think this was his sole motivation? No. I think he just wanted to kill Americans and took advantage of what was (to him) a familiar target that he recognized as being very unprotected.

Also, having grown up in the Detroit area in proximity to Dearborn, I've seen many "devout" Muslim men behave very poorly, with regard to the teachings of Islam. Osama bin laden had porn on his computer, for crying out loud. That doesn't seem to diminish these radical's need to kill westerners.

I not heard THAT one, that's funny..... I suppose you serious, where you hear that???

[Milton Fox]

Originally Posted by Brett K

It was an attack on Americans on American soil. That is all that is necessary to understand to be outraged.

Originally Posted by Barn Babe

It was an attack on Americans. The gay issue was probably a factor, but I'm guessing the next one will focus on another societal group.

I respect your opinions and summations, but dont forget

1) he was an American as well.

2) And there was a mention of bipolar illness that has not been confirmed, but the little bit of behavior patterns references so far fits the cyclical nature of bipolar illness.

Originally Posted by mrvette

I not heard THAT one, that's funny..... I suppose you serious, where you hear that???

I thought all computors came preloaded with pron?


In regard to the OPs question - I think he didnt choose Disneyland because he was also a father.

I also feel it was a definite attack on that segment of humanity.

[ApexOversteer]

Originally Posted by mrvette

I not heard THAT one, that's funny..... I suppose you serious, where you hear that???

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/14/wo...aden.html?_r=0

[DAB]

told you over a year ago.... (06-15-2016, 10:37am)

At least 20 feared dead in ?mass shooting? at Texas church | Fox News

Originally Posted by DAB

crowded mall on the day after Thanksgiving.

moderate sized church on a busy sunday.

any place with a line waiting to get thru security (airport, sporting event).

these muslims don't just want to die and go visit allah. they want to take as many infidels (that's you and me) with them as possible. and they'll use whatever tools they can get their hands on.

this was one guy who had done some scouting. imagine how much of a mess 2-4 guys, who had a plan, could do. 3 go into a place with one entry, everyone is either killed or chased out the front door, and #4 kills them at that choke point.

the list of targets is beyond imagination. and all these latest attacks have been taking place in what i'd call secondary cities. San Bernadino (not LA), Chattanooga (not Nashville), Orlando (not Miami). i'd have to guess that these attackers have concluded that large cities are better prepared and defended, and not worth the risk, so they go to the next size cities in the area.